JustinThyme
SOC-10
For covers, I nominate John Berkey.
Missions of State -- Does it suck or not?
- Thread starter jchurchill
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JustinThyme
SOC-10
For covers, I nominate John Berkey.
I'd have traded off colour for the kind of artwork that often prevaded Traveller's Digest in the DGP years. They had reasonably good cover and interior art. And whoever did the line art ship drawings for Starship Ops Manual V1 was pretty good. Heck, even the old small-book-JTAS interior art (some of it rather caricaturish) was better than the T4 stuff. It might be fine as art, but it weren't right for Traveller - didn't have the right mood/look. Wasn't part of the idiom...
I'd have traded off colour for the kind of artwork that often prevaded Traveller's Digest in the DGP years. They had reasonably good cover and interior art. And whoever did the line art ship drawings for Starship Ops Manual V1 was pretty good. Heck, even the old small-book-JTAS interior art (some of it rather caricaturish) was better than the T4 stuff. It might be fine as art, but it weren't right for Traveller - didn't have the right mood/look. Wasn't part of the idiom...
Before you all go off knocking off Chris Foss (and IMHO, he is a good Milieu 0 or Rule of Man artist), keep in mind he, Moebius and Giger were the original artists in Alien. A movie along with Star Wars helped shaped the Traveller universe to what is today.
I never did get most of Missions of State. It somehow was an incomplete product for me. I much rather prefered the first Long Way Home (I do have my reservations about Gateway). I am glad that the Khiddar(sp?) Incident made its way into a separate product.
What made T4 work was Milieu 0 and I really have to commend the creative genius that put it together. It is just a pity that Stu Dollar's work also never saw the light of day as I would have to say IG was on the road to recovery thanks to the British outpouring. Thanks, mates!
I never did get most of Missions of State. It somehow was an incomplete product for me. I much rather prefered the first Long Way Home (I do have my reservations about Gateway). I am glad that the Khiddar(sp?) Incident made its way into a separate product.
What made T4 work was Milieu 0 and I really have to commend the creative genius that put it together. It is just a pity that Stu Dollar's work also never saw the light of day as I would have to say IG was on the road to recovery thanks to the British outpouring. Thanks, mates!
Before you all go off knocking off Chris Foss (and IMHO, he is a good Milieu 0 or Rule of Man artist), keep in mind he, Moebius and Giger were the original artists in Alien. A movie along with Star Wars helped shaped the Traveller universe to what is today.
I never did get most of Missions of State. It somehow was an incomplete product for me. I much rather prefered the first Long Way Home (I do have my reservations about Gateway). I am glad that the Khiddar(sp?) Incident made its way into a separate product.
What made T4 work was Milieu 0 and I really have to commend the creative genius that put it together. It is just a pity that Stu Dollar's work also never saw the light of day as I would have to say IG was on the road to recovery thanks to the British outpouring. Thanks, mates!
I never did get most of Missions of State. It somehow was an incomplete product for me. I much rather prefered the first Long Way Home (I do have my reservations about Gateway). I am glad that the Khiddar(sp?) Incident made its way into a separate product.
What made T4 work was Milieu 0 and I really have to commend the creative genius that put it together. It is just a pity that Stu Dollar's work also never saw the light of day as I would have to say IG was on the road to recovery thanks to the British outpouring. Thanks, mates!
I think Chris Foss is a great artist.
I also think it gives T4, a totally different feel. Kind of a reach for the stars and beyond slick look, like a long-running TV show, rather than the dirty, gritty, well-used Star Wars / Film / Science Fiction Novel look. (Which I much prefer, as my lierary influences were Asimov, Haldeman, Pohl, Norton, and Ellison, for the most part, as a teenager.
Not that the slick look is bad, it's just a way different flavor than Keith and Deitrick (who in my mind defined Traveller by the art) and the rest. The huge, sprawling cities, towers reaching up of Foss give it this kind of well, high tech feel, like this THING to be looked at, and yes, admired, but it comes off as unearthly.
Where Keith makes it like You are there, you are the pc, it's hard core, real world plus a few hundred years.
I'm sure that I've overstated the obvious. But, yeah, I like it all, it's just very different in style.
I also think it gives T4, a totally different feel. Kind of a reach for the stars and beyond slick look, like a long-running TV show, rather than the dirty, gritty, well-used Star Wars / Film / Science Fiction Novel look. (Which I much prefer, as my lierary influences were Asimov, Haldeman, Pohl, Norton, and Ellison, for the most part, as a teenager.
Not that the slick look is bad, it's just a way different flavor than Keith and Deitrick (who in my mind defined Traveller by the art) and the rest. The huge, sprawling cities, towers reaching up of Foss give it this kind of well, high tech feel, like this THING to be looked at, and yes, admired, but it comes off as unearthly.
Where Keith makes it like You are there, you are the pc, it's hard core, real world plus a few hundred years.
I'm sure that I've overstated the obvious. But, yeah, I like it all, it's just very different in style.
I think Chris Foss is a great artist.
I also think it gives T4, a totally different feel. Kind of a reach for the stars and beyond slick look, like a long-running TV show, rather than the dirty, gritty, well-used Star Wars / Film / Science Fiction Novel look. (Which I much prefer, as my lierary influences were Asimov, Haldeman, Pohl, Norton, and Ellison, for the most part, as a teenager.
Not that the slick look is bad, it's just a way different flavor than Keith and Deitrick (who in my mind defined Traveller by the art) and the rest. The huge, sprawling cities, towers reaching up of Foss give it this kind of well, high tech feel, like this THING to be looked at, and yes, admired, but it comes off as unearthly.
Where Keith makes it like You are there, you are the pc, it's hard core, real world plus a few hundred years.
I'm sure that I've overstated the obvious. But, yeah, I like it all, it's just very different in style.
I also think it gives T4, a totally different feel. Kind of a reach for the stars and beyond slick look, like a long-running TV show, rather than the dirty, gritty, well-used Star Wars / Film / Science Fiction Novel look. (Which I much prefer, as my lierary influences were Asimov, Haldeman, Pohl, Norton, and Ellison, for the most part, as a teenager.
Not that the slick look is bad, it's just a way different flavor than Keith and Deitrick (who in my mind defined Traveller by the art) and the rest. The huge, sprawling cities, towers reaching up of Foss give it this kind of well, high tech feel, like this THING to be looked at, and yes, admired, but it comes off as unearthly.
Where Keith makes it like You are there, you are the pc, it's hard core, real world plus a few hundred years.
I'm sure that I've overstated the obvious. But, yeah, I like it all, it's just very different in style.
Out of curiosity, MJD what do you see as defining the art of 1248? A long time ago, I suggested that the art of Twilight 2000 (especially that of Liz Danforth) would provide a perfect backdrop. Whatever, you guys decide, I am sure it will be fantastic as I can only see things getting better and better with QLI, Stellar Reaches et al.
Grubby spaceships painted with whatever starship paint available, darkened interiors and graveyards and nurseries where new empires are being born is how I would define T4 and that is just what the art did with exception of the people. And, I am not too sure how I would have drawn the people but to emphasis the rise and cross-fertilizations of many different cultures - alien & human. The presence of Robots, I think in Missions of State bothered me, if memory serves me right...it just did not match the time period but more of Marc's philosophy of a robotic future, as well as a human dominated future.
Grubby spaceships painted with whatever starship paint available, darkened interiors and graveyards and nurseries where new empires are being born is how I would define T4 and that is just what the art did with exception of the people. And, I am not too sure how I would have drawn the people but to emphasis the rise and cross-fertilizations of many different cultures - alien & human. The presence of Robots, I think in Missions of State bothered me, if memory serves me right...it just did not match the time period but more of Marc's philosophy of a robotic future, as well as a human dominated future.
Out of curiosity, MJD what do you see as defining the art of 1248? A long time ago, I suggested that the art of Twilight 2000 (especially that of Liz Danforth) would provide a perfect backdrop. Whatever, you guys decide, I am sure it will be fantastic as I can only see things getting better and better with QLI, Stellar Reaches et al.
Grubby spaceships painted with whatever starship paint available, darkened interiors and graveyards and nurseries where new empires are being born is how I would define T4 and that is just what the art did with exception of the people. And, I am not too sure how I would have drawn the people but to emphasis the rise and cross-fertilizations of many different cultures - alien & human. The presence of Robots, I think in Missions of State bothered me, if memory serves me right...it just did not match the time period but more of Marc's philosophy of a robotic future, as well as a human dominated future.
Grubby spaceships painted with whatever starship paint available, darkened interiors and graveyards and nurseries where new empires are being born is how I would define T4 and that is just what the art did with exception of the people. And, I am not too sure how I would have drawn the people but to emphasis the rise and cross-fertilizations of many different cultures - alien & human. The presence of Robots, I think in Missions of State bothered me, if memory serves me right...it just did not match the time period but more of Marc's philosophy of a robotic future, as well as a human dominated future.
hirch duckfinder
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hirch duckfinder
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