Missions of State -- Does it suck or not?

[daltoncalford]

I think the biggest problem with Traveller artwork is that when it was concieved and written, artwork was not even thought of for RPG's.
(I have a copy of the very first D&D box set. The dice where chits cut from the back cover. AD&D started off as a rewrite of the pamphlet style add-ons for that starter set.)
Yup, I foundly remember first reading about mind flayers in a LGB (little grey book) when it first hit my FLGS back in the late 70's.

Artwork was always a second thought back then. The norm was a rules system, no setting, generic layouts and rules, artwork was for magazines and supplements.

When newer gaming systems came out, they raised the bar and traveller was faced with the realization that they had no single 'face' to present to the gaming community.

Everyone has different expectations. Most know what they don't like but few actually know what they do like.

I wish I was a graphical artist, but, I am a computer geek. Not the slightest inkling of artistic ability flows in my blood. If I was a artist, I would produce technical drawings of all the things detailed in Traveller over the years.
I would produce the items like the parts listing in a technical manual. Some things that are obviously commercial, I would present as advertising. I would get rid of the tacky drawings and include pictures of spaceships like those that are in the Traveller art thread.

Oh well, I am a dreamer and I probly will never see anything like that.

best regards

Dalton

 

[daltoncalford]

I think the biggest problem with Traveller artwork is that when it was concieved and written, artwork was not even thought of for RPG's.
(I have a copy of the very first D&D box set. The dice where chits cut from the back cover. AD&D started off as a rewrite of the pamphlet style add-ons for that starter set.)
Yup, I foundly remember first reading about mind flayers in a LGB (little grey book) when it first hit my FLGS back in the late 70's.

Artwork was always a second thought back then. The norm was a rules system, no setting, generic layouts and rules, artwork was for magazines and supplements.

When newer gaming systems came out, they raised the bar and traveller was faced with the realization that they had no single 'face' to present to the gaming community.

Everyone has different expectations. Most know what they don't like but few actually know what they do like.

I wish I was a graphical artist, but, I am a computer geek. Not the slightest inkling of artistic ability flows in my blood. If I was a artist, I would produce technical drawings of all the things detailed in Traveller over the years.
I would produce the items like the parts listing in a technical manual. Some things that are obviously commercial, I would present as advertising. I would get rid of the tacky drawings and include pictures of spaceships like those that are in the Traveller art thread.

Oh well, I am a dreamer and I probly will never see anything like that.

best regards

Dalton

 

[jcrocker]

My big problem with the T4 artwork was all the giant stone heads that the spaceships were pulling out of the ground. Okay, once picture of this is kinda neat, but the same theme was used at least two or three times.

My Traveller groups haven't been around for decades, but I don't recall any of them ever pulling, or expressing a desire to pull, giant stone heads out of the ground with a spaceship.

 

[jcrocker]

My big problem with the T4 artwork was all the giant stone heads that the spaceships were pulling out of the ground. Okay, once picture of this is kinda neat, but the same theme was used at least two or three times.

My Traveller groups haven't been around for decades, but I don't recall any of them ever pulling, or expressing a desire to pull, giant stone heads out of the ground with a spaceship.

 

[kafka47]

I agree with the sediment that art was not needed to sell games in our youth.

However, as I approach middle age, I find a good story wins over game mechanics any day.

Now there are two ways to tell the story, a gifted writer can write prologues and chapter introductions or you can have good artists illustrate a whole new and exciting universe (you know a picture tells a thousand words or worlds). This is why I place such importance on art.

Secondly, I think that some of the new generation are much more visual than some of us old timers and if that is what it takes to lure them in. Great, the hobby needs new blood.

There is nothing wrong with a good mechanic (in fact it is indispensable) but the thing about mechanics is that you have to Keep It Simple Silly (KISS) and then do something that will fire those neurons. As Virtual Reality is a tad too expensive then create worlds both in terms of narrative and art, you will have a winning formula. This is what T4 tried to do but regrettably failed. Notwithstanding, hopefully we have learnt what we did wrong and only to make the next Traveller product better.

--------------------
As to the artwork of pulling up the Easter Island monoliths, it intrigued me. I wondered whether it was the vanity of some Governor from the Rule of Man or did the descendants of the Ancients return a second time to Terra. It was an image that differentiates itself from the other archaeological looting images that have graced other covers by implying that there was a further story to be told. Which for me is the function of great RPG art.

 

[kafka47]

I agree with the sediment that art was not needed to sell games in our youth.

However, as I approach middle age, I find a good story wins over game mechanics any day.

Now there are two ways to tell the story, a gifted writer can write prologues and chapter introductions or you can have good artists illustrate a whole new and exciting universe (you know a picture tells a thousand words or worlds). This is why I place such importance on art.

Secondly, I think that some of the new generation are much more visual than some of us old timers and if that is what it takes to lure them in. Great, the hobby needs new blood.

There is nothing wrong with a good mechanic (in fact it is indispensable) but the thing about mechanics is that you have to Keep It Simple Silly (KISS) and then do something that will fire those neurons. As Virtual Reality is a tad too expensive then create worlds both in terms of narrative and art, you will have a winning formula. This is what T4 tried to do but regrettably failed. Notwithstanding, hopefully we have learnt what we did wrong and only to make the next Traveller product better.

--------------------
As to the artwork of pulling up the Easter Island monoliths, it intrigued me. I wondered whether it was the vanity of some Governor from the Rule of Man or did the descendants of the Ancients return a second time to Terra. It was an image that differentiates itself from the other archaeological looting images that have graced other covers by implying that there was a further story to be told. Which for me is the function of great RPG art.

 

[jcrocker]

Oh I agree, the Easter Island head being pulled up made you go, "huh, neat" for all the reasons you mentioned and more. But that was the first one.

Then there was the second, a big round stone head, and I think one more, but I'd have to look for that.

One was intriguing - two was silly and ruined the effect.

 

[jcrocker]

Oh I agree, the Easter Island head being pulled up made you go, "huh, neat" for all the reasons you mentioned and more. But that was the first one.

Then there was the second, a big round stone head, and I think one more, but I'd have to look for that.

One was intriguing - two was silly and ruined the effect.

 

[kafka47]

See your point, however, it did stimulate an adventure as they were charged by the ancestors to return the stones to the proper place on Terra. The problem being that the stone did not originate from Terra when densiometers were applied, they found underneath was a composite material akin to Lunar regular(sp). This led them to question authorities on the Moon/Luna which as might be aware is one large ecological park.

The patron then had them track down one unsavory character from the Asian Combine deep within the Solomani Sphere (think Cowboy Beehop) and find out why this was done. It turns out this was an ancient marking of honour for a treasure that lie beneath. Returning to the world they find a bunch of corrupt Imperial archaeologists already evacuating the scene. However, they find a backdoor to the tomb of a forgotten General from the Rule of Man who had plundered many priceless Vilani artifacts. Naturally, the tomb's computer does not take too well to the intrusion. The two parties have to find a way to cooperate before the whole tomb turns against them.

 

[kafka47]

See your point, however, it did stimulate an adventure as they were charged by the ancestors to return the stones to the proper place on Terra. The problem being that the stone did not originate from Terra when densiometers were applied, they found underneath was a composite material akin to Lunar regular(sp). This led them to question authorities on the Moon/Luna which as might be aware is one large ecological park.

The patron then had them track down one unsavory character from the Asian Combine deep within the Solomani Sphere (think Cowboy Beehop) and find out why this was done. It turns out this was an ancient marking of honour for a treasure that lie beneath. Returning to the world they find a bunch of corrupt Imperial archaeologists already evacuating the scene. However, they find a backdoor to the tomb of a forgotten General from the Rule of Man who had plundered many priceless Vilani artifacts. Naturally, the tomb's computer does not take too well to the intrusion. The two parties have to find a way to cooperate before the whole tomb turns against them.

 

[jcrocker]

Sounds like a good adventure - glad that the head inspired such an interesting piece of work!

I had a quick look - the 'easter island' head was on the cover of book 5, "Milieu 0". The big fat round head was on the cover of book 6, "First Survey".

The third one I remembered was on the cover of a "Journal" advertised in the back of both those books, and it was just a big round rock being lifted by a spaceship, not a head - so technically I can't gripe at T4 for three of them. I still reserve the right to shake my head, though.

 

[jcrocker]

Sounds like a good adventure - glad that the head inspired such an interesting piece of work!

I had a quick look - the 'easter island' head was on the cover of book 5, "Milieu 0". The big fat round head was on the cover of book 6, "First Survey".

The third one I remembered was on the cover of a "Journal" advertised in the back of both those books, and it was just a big round rock being lifted by a spaceship, not a head - so technically I can't gripe at T4 for three of them. I still reserve the right to shake my head, though.

 

[inexorabletash]

I thought those selections for cover art were intentional - IMHO, both depict the notion of an advanced, spacefaring society recontacting "lost colonies" that have regressed to a low tech level. The ships are doing the locals a favor by restoring some of their damaged monuments.

The high tech/stone ruins juxtaposition seems very appropriate for the T4 Milieu 0 setting.

FWIW, I adore Chris Foss' artwork, even though it's not depicting Traveller ships. To me, the T4 books are actually the most attractive of the Traveller editions (if I ignore the gradient/shadowed text). LBBs are the most elegant and pure, but somewhat monotonous. Deitrick's Alien Module covers are favorites of mine too, but the rulebook (Starter Edition) looks too much like a Battlestar Galactica poster. MT and TNE are far too garish and scattered; they don't have a consistent theme. And GT has that "fanboy with a new renderer"/"junior fantasy artist" look to too many of the covers. (There, now I think I've offended everybody!)

The "binder" mockups of T5 on Traveller5.com are gorgeous; combine the elegance of the LBBs and the composition of the T4 covers, introduce color artwork, but keep it simple and in theme.

 

[inexorabletash]

I thought those selections for cover art were intentional - IMHO, both depict the notion of an advanced, spacefaring society recontacting "lost colonies" that have regressed to a low tech level. The ships are doing the locals a favor by restoring some of their damaged monuments.

The high tech/stone ruins juxtaposition seems very appropriate for the T4 Milieu 0 setting.

FWIW, I adore Chris Foss' artwork, even though it's not depicting Traveller ships. To me, the T4 books are actually the most attractive of the Traveller editions (if I ignore the gradient/shadowed text). LBBs are the most elegant and pure, but somewhat monotonous. Deitrick's Alien Module covers are favorites of mine too, but the rulebook (Starter Edition) looks too much like a Battlestar Galactica poster. MT and TNE are far too garish and scattered; they don't have a consistent theme. And GT has that "fanboy with a new renderer"/"junior fantasy artist" look to too many of the covers. (There, now I think I've offended everybody!)

The "binder" mockups of T5 on Traveller5.com are gorgeous; combine the elegance of the LBBs and the composition of the T4 covers, introduce color artwork, but keep it simple and in theme.

 

[jcrocker]

I see your point about the 'starship with stone ruins' juxtaposition - but for me, one big stone head being lifted by a ship is the limit. A starship beside a castle, landing in the middle of some Stonehenge-like place, anything like that would be exotic and convey the flavour you mention. I always thought that one of the really neat parts of Star Wars was how the rebels on Yavin's moon used the ancient stone buildings for their base - perhaps difficult to convey on the limited space of a cover, but not the 'one-trick pony' that repeated use of a starship winching up the head is, at least to me.

 

[jcrocker]

I see your point about the 'starship with stone ruins' juxtaposition - but for me, one big stone head being lifted by a ship is the limit. A starship beside a castle, landing in the middle of some Stonehenge-like place, anything like that would be exotic and convey the flavour you mention. I always thought that one of the really neat parts of Star Wars was how the rebels on Yavin's moon used the ancient stone buildings for their base - perhaps difficult to convey on the limited space of a cover, but not the 'one-trick pony' that repeated use of a starship winching up the head is, at least to me.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Hi Guys,

The "other artist" from T-4 was Larry Elmore who did a prodigeous amount of artowrk for TSR and other gaming companies.

I'm a huge fan of Elmore.

The Chris Foss artwork was fine, but a little too "pulpy" for my taste. Traveller seems a little more gritty than his artwork in my opinion.

However, having said that, I love Chris Foss' artwork... absolutely beautiful.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Hi Guys,

The "other artist" from T-4 was Larry Elmore who did a prodigeous amount of artowrk for TSR and other gaming companies.

I'm a huge fan of Elmore.

The Chris Foss artwork was fine, but a little too "pulpy" for my taste. Traveller seems a little more gritty than his artwork in my opinion.

However, having said that, I love Chris Foss' artwork... absolutely beautiful.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.