UWP Changes

[Flynn]

I would agree with that statement, robject. My initial stance on the matter would be to start with something based on the Alternate World Generation Method, modified to reflect MWM's thoughts on what combinations are more appropriate for his view of Traveller.

The Alternate World Generation Method:
http://traveller.mu.org/house/altWorldGeneration.html

(I don't think you need the three extra stats Jim mentions in his posts, but that's up to MWM, not me.)

I'd also recommend the clean-up suggestions I made earlier be integrated into the system, to help remove some of the more imagination-stretching improbabilities (such as TL2 barbarians on an airless rock). Those kinds of things can and should be added by Referees, instead of occurring with the frequency that the current LBB3 rules seem to indicate. However, that's just my opinion.

As an aside, the requirement of minimal TLs based on Atmosphere is taken directly from BASIC code that MWM wrote himself to generate worlds and then published in Challenge 26, so I'm hopeful that he'd agree to implementing at least that much in T5's world generation methods.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[robject]

Quite so, Jason. Minimal TL rules need to be enforced; that's part of the cleanup process, and makes sense to me. Stellar distribution logic is also likely to change a bit, and Marc even seems willing to change stars in the Marches (at least where they do very little violence to the rules). And, amazingly, he's even open to some suggestions that are simply preferences, such as Tenalphi.

However, I'm not sure that the mainworld generation system has ever deliberately changed, and therefore I doubt it ever will.

YDSSLMV (Your Disbelief Suspender Snap Level May Vary)

 

[robject]

I do see these three worlds have problems:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Stellatio 1216 D5A4420-4 Ni Fl 210 Im M9 III M5 D
Sonthert 1918 X6266AB-3 Ni R 314 Im K6 V M0 D
Dhian 2510 C9A769D-4 Ni Fl 202 Im M5 V M4 D</pre>[/QUOTE]Are these people engineered to breathe such a funky atmosphere? Sonthert has three million people breathing a very thin, tainted atmosphere... something very strange is going on...

In the whole of the Marches, I only find five worlds that have this sort of problem, and two lie outside of the Imperium.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by robject:
In the whole of the Marches, I only find five worlds that have this sort of problem, and two lie outside of the Imperium.

The worst, of course, is Retinae. It has a corrosive atmosphere where billions of unstated (and therefore, by implication, human) sophonts live at TL 5. Uh, OK.

GT BtC makes them aliens. In 1248, I just want to kill them.

Marc probably isn't concerned about it, as it is not an Imperial world, but there it is.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by daryen:
In 1248, I just want to kill them.

Daryen,

They're mentioned in 1248? Oh Strephon, I can only imagine...

hurries off the download the rest of the playtest files


Have fun,
Bill

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
In 1248, I just want to kill them.

They're mentioned in 1248? Oh Strephon, I can only imagine...

hurries off the download the rest of the playtest files</font>[/QUOTE]No, not in 1248 itself, but in possible, potential, maybe if things go really, really well, follow-ons.

 

[robject]

Gads. Bazillions of WWII-era people in a corrosive atmosphere. Riiiiight. Something very odd about that...

 

[RainOfSteel]

There are also others in that condition:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Delphi Delphi0401 0401 X-9C4433-1
Dark Nebula Eauie 1519 E-8C1840-1
Empty Quarter Empty Quarter1601 1601 E-AC8536-2
Hinterworlds Golgotha 2131 X-8C3536-2
Glim. Reaches Glim. Reaches2326 2326 D-9C2345-3
Verge Verge1806 1806 D-7C4868-4
Empty Quarter Empty Quarter0809 0809 D-AC4ADE-4
Spica Spica1738 1738 C-8C6567-4</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Flynn]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
There are also others in that condition:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Empty Quarter Empty Quarter1601 1601 E-AC8536-2
Empty Quarter Empty Quarter0809 0809 D-AC4ADE-4</pre>

[/quote]Damn, I thought I'd fixed that! Oh, that's the Genie/Sunbane data.

Here's what I did for those worlds:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Sudvoukh 0809 D550596-7 De Ni Po 520 Jr F9 V* M7 V [M9 II]
Aelraek 1601 E530200-7 De Lo Ni Po 602 Na F1 V* [K2 V]</pre>[/QUOTE]My personal version of EQ, circa 1105, can be found here:
http://www.elvwood.org/Traveller/Sectors/EmptyQuarter.html
http://www.elvwood.org/Traveller/Sectors/emptyq_ct.sec

Within the next few months, it will be updated with 993 and 1200 data sets, as well. All data sets on that site are scrubbed for good TLs based on Atmosphere codes, starports with reasonable populations and TLs to support Class A & B, etc.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[RainOfSteel]

Yes, I'm operating off the gold Genie/Sunbane data.

That is what we're supposed to be looking at, right?

 

[GypsyComet]

In cases where no further published work was done, the GEnie/Sunbane data and the Atlas of the Imperium (two supposedly related sources) are the default. Some sectors will require a LOT more work than others...

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
Yes, I'm operating off the gold Genie/Sunbane data.

That is what we're supposed to be looking at, right?

I don't know what Marc's comments are, but I (and others) strongly recommend just throwing the Genie/Sunbane data in the trash and starting from scratch. All the files I have seen are wrong (e.g. Trojan Reaches) or worthless. Either way, ditch the data.

Backfill the AotI data (corrected when necessary), but ignore Genie/Sunbane.

 

[Whipsnade]

Gents,

Let me ditto Daryen here. Ditch Genie/Sunbane in total it is rubbish.

You have AotI. Take the locations, starport codes, travel zones, and what little else it provides and regenerate complete UWPs for them with a properly applied LBB:6.

Once you have to the new, correctly generated UWPs you can comb through them for the kinds of 'whoppers' you're handling now.

All this work should be trivial with the computers we have now as compared with the early 80s.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[RainOfSteel]

Well, I would be happy to dump the GEnie/Sunbane data.

However, that isn't the "direction" I felt from robject's posts.

If we can do it and get away with it, hooray!

Otherwise, plodding along will be necessary.

On the big Traveller map sites, I see that the Far Reaches over in the Zhodani Consulate is blank. There also appear to be sectors missing from Aslan, Hiver, and K'Kree space and possibly far trailing Vargr space, too. Perhaps these will be done from scratch?

 

[Flynn]

That was actually what I did with the Empty Quarter data, because the Genie/Sunbane data does not reflect the AotI.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[robject]

Well.

If the Sunbane data includes the AotI baseline data, then I've got the AotI data. Perl just combs out all the non-AotI data, and regenerates worlds based on the AotI baseline. Going on that assumption, I played around with the Corridor sector.

Do you suppose the world names are owned by DGP, or can FFE use them as well? Anybody know? (Ah, Marc will know...).

Rob

 

[Flynn]

The Sunbane data does not include the AotI baseline data, though I used to believe that it did. (Empty Quarter proved it to me. A few planets were off in location, one had been added, and numerous desert worlds weren't identified as such, allegiances were off, etc.)

For each sector, you might consider generating one of your maps and comparing it to the AotI first.

Then it's probably safe to go forward with it...

The only AotI world names are for High Pop worlds. The rest are open, though they might appear elsewhere in Challenge, etc.

-Flynn

 

[daryen]

Flynn,

Don't forget that the "desert" indication on the planet symbol (i.e. white instead of blue or hollow instead of black) means there is no water, not that it is truly a desert. A world with Fluid Seas will also be shown with a "desert" planet symbol.

 

[robject]

OK.

Now to go find a copy of AotI...

 

[Flynn]

Thanks, daryen. I had forgotten that.

Still, there were other issues beyond that between the UWPs I found online and those apparently used to generate the AotI for Empty Quarter. That's why I suggested robject print a map and visually (aka manually) compare them first before accepting that they accurately reflect the AotI.

Just sharing my experience with them,
Flynn