UWP Changes

[daryen]

Originally posted by robject:
Now to go find a copy of AotI...

Now do you see why I keep begging Marc to make the CT Modules Reprint?

Look, I have (and will) borrowed resources when necessary to get the information I need for my Domain efforts. But it would really be nice to actually have legitimate copies of the SMC and the AotI in my own hands.

I can't do that until/unless Marc gets around to releasing the CT Modules Reprint.

 

[robject]

...and now I've gone completely around in a circle.

Looks like the Sunbane data is what Marc wants to start with, since it's the most complete and FFS has the rights to it.

But he's very open to changes. Thank goodness.

I think the first thing I'd suggest to him is to exclude any worlds that aren't indicated in AotI. I don't suppose anyone has that data handy?

Here's our exchange:

Rob, upon reviewing a 33 MB spreadsheet containing data on every system in the Imperium.

That's a lot of data.

I think most problems people have with sector data is from their concept of what habitable worlds should be, rather than accepting what the mainworld generation system creates.


Marc:


I agree. I also think that the challenge to the referee is to create a plausible explanation from the data presented.


Rob:

I am assuming there are no copyright problems, and FFE can use any or all of this data.


Marc:

There is no copyright problem with this data. It all belongs to FFE.


Rob:

Looks like most mainworld changes will be based on how you want Important worlds to be distributed in the Imperium as a whole. Are there industrial subsectors? Agricultural clusters? Etc.

I'll analyze the data on a sector-by-sector basis, and recommend these things:

* suggest mainworld adjustments based on the sector's distribution of Important worlds, based on "LBB3" averages and your preferences.
* suggest Xboat routes through the sectors.
* suggest which companion stars are binary, near, or far.

I can also regenerate the trade codes for the worlds, while preserving the non-trade codes, and even regenerate stellar data (which will result in radical changes in stellar data).


Marc:

I foresee only minimal changes in stellar data (subject to strong convincing evidence).


Rob:

My preference for Core sector would be to use the 'old' mainworld names, instead of the 'T4' ones.


Marc:

I agree.

I'll finish with two telling quotes, which I feel are important enough to list separately.

Finally, I am not adverse to ANY reasoned changes, provided we can come up with a good explanation or reason.


and


I do want to fill in the "Aliens" column with native sophont races as well.

 

[RainOfSteel]

I must admit, I would like to see some mechanic included in this data cleansing project to shift large scale populations to people-friendly worlds. Let's get the mega-bazillions of people off the small vacuum rockballs.

Note: I will admit, this probably won't happen in the sectors published in main products, but it's very important for the other sectors (to me, anyway).

---------------------------------------

The following represents a list of worlds that have Pop 9+, Atmo 1-, and Size 1-. This list grows a lot larger if we go to Size 2- (like by 50 worlds).

I removed worlds from the Solomani Rim and Glimmerdrift Reaches. (Some of the other sectors may or may not be considered published.)

I'm sorry, but the list is still lengthy.
---------------------------------------
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Alpha Crucis Iamir 0208 C-100AAB-F
Alpha Crucis Faro 0502 D-100AAC-F
Alpha Crucis Ychanon 1002 B-1009BA-F
Alpha Crucis Fairday 1303 E-100A98-E
Alpha Crucis Cloudia 2401 A-11099A-F
Alpha Crucis Gambda 3210 C-000963-E
Alpha Crucis Qaal 0119 E-10096A-D
Alpha Crucis Water 0912 B-000ADE-F
Alpha Crucis Sarmqir 1217 D-110AA5-E
Alpha Crucis Agryx 1520 C-1009B8-D
Alpha Crucis Weeven 1812 E-110A9A-F
Alpha Crucis Oriah 2419 B-0009A6-F
Alpha Crucis Wiseman 3019 B-10099B-F
Alpha Crucis Alpha Crucis3213 3213 E-100ACB-E
Alpha Crucis Velscur 1530 D-100956-D
Alpha Crucis Addison 2624 B-100999-F
Alpha Crucis Scathe 0231 C-000A99-F
Alpha Crucis Caldron 2335 E-0009BE-B
Alpha Crucis Brookwall 2435 C-10096A-F
Amdukan Umada 0722 C-0009CA-9
Antares Raguegh 0114 C-0009AA-E
Antares Theron 0937 B-100969-G
Core Markasher 3115 E-1009CC-6
Dagudashaag Ikabi 1929 C-0009DE-D
Dagudashaag Kakar 2937 C-1009CB-F
Dagudashaag Uumirsa 3032 B-000954-F
Daibei Shaid Mamke 1101 D-00097C-B
Daibei Laudumash 2319 D-110A99-D
Daibei Ilin 3229 E-110997-C
Daibei Uston 0139 A-100A98-F
Daibei Gulurkhi 0636 C-0009A7-E
Daibei Hermes 1431 D-100ABA-F
Daibei Tura 3239 C-110954-F
Dark Nebula Au'aiyyee 0220 B-1009H3-D
Dark Nebula Iopfen 1217 D-110ACC-3
Dark Nebula Strin 2316 C-1009AD-8
Dark Nebula Ewausiaktiy 2136 E-1109N8-7
Dark Nebula Yohkul 2138 A-0009H8-E
Delphi Ursalem 1009 D-100AA9-D
Delphi Withern 0421 C-100963-B
Delphi Cabot 1536 D-100A99-A
Delphi Gimesh 1736 E-1009A7-9
Delphi Anise 1935 D-100A99-D
Deneb Starn 1417 B-000996-F
Deneb Dekha 1128 C-100A9A-F
Diaspora Gasudarsk 0605 B-100ABE-F
Diaspora Narquel 0709 A-1109DG-F
Diaspora Gamov 2104 C-0009EF-E
Diaspora St. Denis 1630 C-1109CB-F
Diaspora Cumber 0532 B-1109CB-F
Ealiyasiyw Fterlyuhlye 2807 D-110AEC-3
Ealiyasiyw Esyah 1311 A-110AH3-E
Ealiyasiyw Oheise 1222 B-1009L8-B
Ealiyasiyw Htaistea 1821 C-1009H8-D
Ealiyasiyw Yoweaserl 1923 C-100AH8-B
Ealiyasiyw Aoseie' 2225 X-1009HA-A
Empty Quarter Empty Quarter2113 2113 A-1019CE-E
Empty Quarter Eninsish 0535 C-000ABB-9
Fornast Shakhishir 3013 C-100994-F
Fornast Happin Belt 2730 B-000AAD-G
Gushemege Akushis 2620 E-0009AC-B
Gushemege Gushemege2920 2920 E-0009A7-D
Gvurrdon Roeknughroe 0410 B-100A99-C
Gvurrdon Taraeng 0113 B-00098C-A
Gvurrdon Jdiprqrafr 0232 B-100A99-C
Hinterworlds Utgaard 1402 D-1009BB-A
Hinterworlds Anubis 2005 B-110ABD-C
Hlakhoi Hteai 0709 B-100AL8-C
Hlakhoi Kawao 2108 C-0009K6-D
Hlakhoi Iweahle' 2914 D-1109H7-B
Hlakhoi Hlakhoi1621 1621 B-1009K7-E
Hlakhoi Htyaaeirl 2128 A-1009J8-C
Ilelish Shume 2101 B-110ACF-G
Ilelish Rughl 0712 B-000979-F
Iwahfuah Foloilr 2008 E-110AH6-9
Iwahfuah Iysas 3002 E-100ANA-B
Iwahfuah Raia 0818 C-110AN5-E
Lishun Thopoc 2106 E-110977-D
Lishun Haraffii 0517 C-00098C-F
Lishun Uo 1220 B-000A98-F
Magyar Gerwalk 2631 C-100941-E
Massilia Aagkhuur 0802 D-100958-C
Massilia Khishan 1910 A-1009AE-G
Massilia Pinkhurim 2917 B-11099C-F
Massilia Gaff 3016 B-110995-E
Massilia Huon 0223 B-100948-G
Massilia Lagna 1029 A-110A97-G
Massilia Leam 0837 E-110A83-D
Massilia Oreo 2540 B-1009AD-F
Massilia Parahee 2934 C-10099D-D
Old Expanses Clersor 0413 A-1009CC-F
Old Expanses Vleeman 2538 A-000A67-D
Reavers Deep Carrill 2330 A-0009AE-E
Reavers Deep Narisagiir 3127 E-100943-8
Reft Serendip Belt 1323 A-000959-C
Spica Tern 0313 C-0009BB-B
Spica Heyss 0917 E-100964-6
Spica Louis 2714 X-110995-4
Spica Vitek 0822 E-100997-9
Spica Diln 0339 E-00099C-B
Spica Tohire 1335 C-0009BA-8
Spica Spica3237 3237 E-1019S2-F
Spinward Marches Glisten 2036 A-000986-F
Staihaia'yo Khtawaia 1019 E-1019L5-7
Staihaia'yo Keyakhyuei 2527 E-1019L7-9
Staihaia'yo Eatlaihiyia 1638 B-1109G9-D
Staihaia'yo Aokhalisi 1734 C-1019G8-A
Trojan Reaches Caraz 2306 E-111959-A
Verge Tier 3007 C-000978-F
Vland Voskhod 0708 B-1109ED-F
Vland Iamone 2225 C-110A9A-F
Vland Hannipur 2827 E-100979-D
Zarushagar Dugemaa 0503 D-1109CB-6
Zarushagar Gishin 0804 B-100A99-B
Zarushagar Lode 2908 B-000944-E
Zarushagar Norman 2517 C-1009A7-8
Zarushagar Ibaru 0321 B-1009A7-D
Zarushagar Lianma 1727 A-1009A7-F
Zarushagar Irap 2630 B-100A99-C
Zarushagar Oyko 1835 D-1009A7-A</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Whipsnade]

Robject,

When he says 'stellar data' does he mean UWPs or the LBB:6 generated stars?

Sunbane is rubbish and I don't care if FFE has all rights to it. I have every right to that dog turd in my backyard, that doesn't mean it is useful.

FFE is all rights to AotI and LBB:6 too. Using both to generate a new set of UWP data would be trivial compared to pouring over the Sunbane rubbish looking for each and every 'whopper'.

You'll still have the same starports, you'll have better/more canonical locations, you'll have all those other bits AotI covered, AND you'll have correctly generate UWPs. Its a Win-Win-Win situation.

Toss Sunbane and start anew. Fixing Sunbane is too much work. You will make mistakes by missing things across a 33MB spreadsheet.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[RainOfSteel]

I believe that sector by sector tweaking at the large scale is necessary.

The central sectors should, by the later centuries of the Imperium, anyway, have larger populations.

Hmm, how to put this better?

I'm not saying that the Pop 7-A worlds need to be changed.

What I'm saying is there need to be fewer Pop 0-4 worlds in these regions, with many transformed into Pop 5-7.

Why? Because trade between lots of low pop worlds doesn't really happen, that's why. And my vision of the Imperium (echoed in canon statements) is one where trade is alive and vibrant between the many worlds. This doesn't happen. When trade doesn't happen, the independent tramp freighter is a rarity. This tends to limit Travelling, IMO; and that is all about small ships and adventure amongst the stars. (Yes, I am still a big battleship fan, but that doesn't mean the PCs have them!)

The published sectors would, of course, not be subject to this.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
I must admit, I would like to see some mechanic included in this data cleansing project to shift large scale populations to people-friendly worlds. Let's get the mega-bazillions of people off the small vacuum rockballs.

I've further trimmed your list by removing non-Imperial worlds. That leaves 91 worlds, for an estimated total population of 6 trillion -- about half of the population of the Imperium.

---------------------------------------

The following represents a list of worlds that have Pop 9+, Atmo 1-, and Size 1-. This list grows a lot larger if we go to Size 2- (like by 50 worlds).

---------------------------------------
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Alpha Crucis Iamir 0208 C-100AAB-F
Alpha Crucis Faro 0502 D-100AAC-F
Alpha Crucis Ychanon 1002 B-1009BA-F
Alpha Crucis Fairday 1303 E-100A98-E
Alpha Crucis Cloudia 2401 A-11099A-F
Alpha Crucis Gambda 3210 C-000963-E
Alpha Crucis Qaal 0119 E-10096A-D
Alpha Crucis Water 0912 B-000ADE-F
Alpha Crucis Sarmqir 1217 D-110AA5-E
Alpha Crucis Agryx 1520 C-1009B8-D
Alpha Crucis Weeven 1812 E-110A9A-F
Alpha Crucis Oriah 2419 B-0009A6-F
Alpha Crucis Wiseman 3019 B-10099B-F
Alpha Crucis Alpha Crucis3213 3213 E-100ACB-E
Alpha Crucis Velscur 1530 D-100956-D
Alpha Crucis Addison 2624 B-100999-F
Alpha Crucis Scathe 0231 C-000A99-F
Alpha Crucis Caldron 2335 E-0009BE-B
Alpha Crucis Brookwall 2435 C-10096A-F

Antares Raguegh 0114 C-0009AA-E
Antares Theron 0937 B-100969-G

Core Markasher 3115 E-1009CC-6

Dagudashaag Ikabi 1929 C-0009DE-D
Dagudashaag Kakar 2937 C-1009CB-F
Dagudashaag Uumirsa 3032 B-000954-F

Daibei Shaid Mamke 1101 D-00097C-B
Daibei Laudumash 2319 D-110A99-D
Daibei Ilin 3229 E-110997-C
Daibei Uston 0139 A-100A98-F
Daibei Gulurkhi 0636 C-0009A7-E
Daibei Hermes 1431 D-100ABA-F
Daibei Tura 3239 C-110954-F

Delphi Ursalem 1009 D-100AA9-D
Delphi Withern 0421 C-100963-B
Delphi Cabot 1536 D-100A99-A
Delphi Gimesh 1736 E-1009A7-9
Delphi Anise 1935 D-100A99-D

Deneb Starn 1417 B-000996-F
Deneb Dekha 1128 C-100A9A-F

Diaspora Gasudarsk 0605 B-100ABE-F
Diaspora Narquel 0709 A-1109DG-F
Diaspora Gamov 2104 C-0009EF-E
Diaspora St. Denis 1630 C-1109CB-F
Diaspora Cumber 0532 B-1109CB-F

Empty Quarter Empty Quarter2113 2113 A-1019CE-E
Empty Quarter Eninsish 0535 C-000ABB-9

Fornast Shakhishir 3013 C-100994-F
Fornast Happin Belt 2730 B-000AAD-G

Gushemege Akushis 2620 E-0009AC-B
Gushemege Gushemege2920 2920 E-0009A7-D

Ilelish Shume 2101 B-110ACF-G
Ilelish Rughl 0712 B-000979-F

Lishun Thopoc 2106 E-110977-D
Lishun Haraffii 0517 C-00098C-F
Lishun Uo 1220 B-000A98-F

Magyar Gerwalk 2631 C-100941-E

Massilia Aagkhuur 0802 D-100958-C
Massilia Khishan 1910 A-1009AE-G
Massilia Pinkhurim 2917 B-11099C-F
Massilia Gaff 3016 B-110995-E
Massilia Huon 0223 B-100948-G
Massilia Lagna 1029 A-110A97-G
Massilia Leam 0837 E-110A83-D
Massilia Oreo 2540 B-1009AD-F
Massilia Parahee 2934 C-10099D-D

Old Expanses Clersor 0413 A-1009CC-F
Old Expanses Vleeman 2538 A-000A67-D

Reavers Deep Carrill 2330 A-0009AE-E
Reavers Deep Narisagiir 3127 E-100943-8

Reft Serendip Belt 1323 A-000959-C

Spica Tern 0313 C-0009BB-B
Spica Heyss 0917 E-100964-6
Spica Louis 2714 X-110995-4
Spica Vitek 0822 E-100997-9
Spica Diln 0339 E-00099C-B
Spica Tohire 1335 C-0009BA-8
Spica Spica3237 3237 E-1019S2-F

Spinward Marches Glisten 2036 A-000986-F

Trojan Reaches Caraz 2306 E-111959-A

Verge Tier 3007 C-000978-F

Vland Voskhod 0708 B-1109ED-F
Vland Iamone 2225 C-110A9A-F
Vland Hannipur 2827 E-100979-D

Zarushagar Dugemaa 0503 D-1109CB-6
Zarushagar Gishin 0804 B-100A99-B
Zarushagar Lode 2908 B-000944-E
Zarushagar Norman 2517 C-1009A7-8
Zarushagar Ibaru 0321 B-1009A7-D
Zarushagar Lianma 1727 A-1009A7-F
Zarushagar Irap 2630 B-100A99-C
Zarushagar Oyko 1835 D-1009A7-A</pre>

[/quote]

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Robject,

When he says 'stellar data' does he mean UWPs or the LBB:6 generated stars?

Sunbane is rubbish and I don't care if FFE has all rights to it. I have every right to that dog turd in my backyard, that doesn't mean it is useful.

FFE is all rights to AotI and LBB:6 too. Using both to generate a new set of UWP data would be trivial compared to pouring over the Sunbane rubbish looking for each and every 'whopper'.

You'll still have the same starports, you'll have better/more canonical locations, you'll have all those other bits AotI covered, AND you'll have correctly generate UWPs. Its a Win-Win-Win situation.

Toss Sunbane and start anew. Fixing Sunbane is too much work. You will make mistakes by missing things across a 33MB spreadsheet.


Have fun,
Bill

Bill's right about the quality of GS data.

----------------------------

However, whatever we do, let's not use the Book 3/6 world generation system untweaked.

Even though the systemic mistakes inadvertently added to the GS data by errors in the generation process will be removed by a new "data run", there are still problems with the UWP system as given in Book 3/6.

T20 takes a few small steps to fix this, and could be very useful as a starting point, especially since its published.

It also includes some new UWP stats, Natural Resources, Indigenous Lifeforms, and World Trade Balance. (Unfortunately, none of this made it into the GTD data.) These stats currently have no mechanics use, but they imply a lot that could be very useful, if we started using them.

I believe the new data and UWP should include these stats.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by robject:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
I must admit, I would like to see some mechanic included in this data cleansing project to shift large scale populations to people-friendly worlds. Let's get the mega-bazillions of people off the small vacuum rockballs.

I've further trimmed your list by removing non-Imperial worlds. That leaves 91 worlds, for an estimated total population of 6 trillion -- about half of the population of the Imperium.
</font>[/QUOTE]You have just stated the reason that I consider this to be so important.

Whether we shift the population locations, or change the physical stats of the world itself, I care not.

Let's just not have so many people in what amounts to obviously the wrong places.

The story/justification for Stoner cannot be repeated that many times.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Robject,

When he says 'stellar data' does he mean UWPs or the LBB:6 generated stars?

He means the generated star data.

 

[inexorabletash]

Originally posted by daryen:
Flynn,

Don't forget that the "desert" indication on the planet symbol (i.e. white instead of blue or hollow instead of black) means there is no water, not that it is truly a desert. A world with Fluid Seas will also be shown with a "desert" planet symbol.

And it's slightly more complicated than that. It took me a while to figure it out on the rendering side - I summarized it in a blog entry:

http://travellermap.blogspot.com/2006/01/no-water-present.html

 

[robject]

Chris,

The Second Survey data currently has all the current stuff, plus an economic extension, a cultural extension, some nobility-related codes, a count of worlds in each system, a Scout classification ID, mainworld names for M1000, M0, RoM, and ZS, a population breakdown by human/alien, and a "travel hub" flag.

I don't know the details about these fields, either how they were arrived at or exactly what their implications are.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:


However, whatever we do, let's not use the Book 3/6 world generation system untweaked.

I assume that stock regeneration of the data isn't going to happen.

Chris, your point is valid: half of the Imperium is living on vacuum rockballs, and that doesn't feel right. So then, post and propose your changes to specific worlds to Marc, or just post them and I'll forward.

I'd suggest that 3 or 4 worlds like this is the max any sector should have. That's how I'd word my preamble. Then I'd select worlds to "terraform" and make them bigger.


Update If serious things like this bother Marc enough, then perhaps he will consent to regenerating some UWP data after all.

The trick is in concisely getting the point across.

Uh, without saying something like "your data sucks!"

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by robject:
I assume that stock regeneration of the data isn't going to happen.

Robject,

Why? It's certainly faster and will take less effort then parsing an entire 33MB spreadsheet to pinpoint all the rubbish in the Sunbane data. Sunbane doesn't even follow AotI's locations in many cases. How are you going to catch all of those mistakes wihtout a painstaking examination of Sunbane and AotI side by side?

... post and propose your changes to specific worlds...

Oh, that will certainly work. Let's all parse through 33MBs looking for individual worlds that need fixing. Should take no time at all, right?

The trick is in concisely getting the point across. Uh, without saying something like "your data sucks!"

The data does suck and the point has been clearly made for years now. Sunbane is trash, it's been proved over and over and over.

Mr. Miller was going to use flux dice for T5 too, that changed. The idea of using Sunbane can change too.

YMMV.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Why? It's certainly faster and will take less effort then parsing an entire 33MB spreadsheet to pinpoint all the rubbish in the Sunbane data. Sunbane doesn't even follow AotI's locations in many cases. How are you going to catch all of those mistakes wihtout a painstaking examination of Sunbane and AotI side by side?

MS Access is very handy for this purpose.

SQL can compare the data easily.

I'd dearly love a dump of the data that is currently being considered.

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
The data does suck and the point has been clearly made for years now. Sunbane is trash, it's been proved over and over and over.

I'm happy to hear that any change is being considered.

Even if it isn't the far-reaching entirely new set of data generated by more modern standards and consideration for the results (preferably generated for FI first, and then updated in succeeding waves for IW, RoM, LN, TI-Early, etc.), I will sign on board to help.

And with the utility of MS Access (or any other relational database you can load the data into), it really isn't as bad as you seem to believe it will be.

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Mr. Miller was going to use flux dice for T5 too, that changed. The idea of using Sunbane can change too.

One step at a time, one step at a time.

Maybe if we calmly report in the hundreds (or even thousands) of changes that will be necessary, perhaps that will better encourage the process to head in the direction that both of us seem to think it needs to head.

 

[Flynn]

robject,

You may want to do a statistical analysis on each sector to make sure that the world sizes, etc, are within the appropriate ranges expected from LBB3/LBB6 generation.

The GS data for Zarushagar and Delphi are great examples of sectors where the code used to generate them created invalid results, for whatever reason. (i.e. far too many small worlds and numerous instances of worlds with similar data, far more than the statistical norm. The Delphi Project over on the SJGames forums was created to address that.)

Just something I remembered and thought I should mention,
Flynn

 

[RainOfSteel]

robject,

Ok, then, in babysteps.


[Modernization]
Change Markasher/Core 3115
From: E-1009CC-6
To: D-5549CC-6

Justification: The purpose of this change is to prevent four billion people from living on an orb with very low gravity, no air, no water, and insufficient technology to cope with these problems. The changes are made to provide the least impact possible. The size has increased to where low gravity will not be such a significant problem. The atmosphere is now high enough that a TL-6 society could conceivably live in it (TL variability, proposed in Grand Survey/Grand Census, can state that they have TL-8 in Evironment, and that way they can produce respirators up to 21st Century RW standards), and the water coverage is 40%. TL was not increased because this would represent a radical change in the ecomonic status of the world (although it would have solved certain other problems).

Note: The quality of the stellar data, K8 IV, will have to be checked by someone else.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Joshua Bell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
Flynn,

Don't forget that the "desert" indication on the planet symbol (i.e. white instead of blue or hollow instead of black) means there is no water, not that it is truly a desert. A world with Fluid Seas will also be shown with a "desert" planet symbol.

And it's slightly more complicated than that. It took me a while to figure it out on the rendering side - I summarized it in a blog entry:

http://travellermap.blogspot.com/2006/01/no-water-present.html </font>[/QUOTE]You are right; I did forget to include ice-capped worlds. So, the criterial is for a "desert" planet symbol is the presence of one of the following trade codes: De, Fl, Ic.

BTW, do note that sometimes the maps are wrong. For example, Junction/Darrian. It is show as a "blue" world, despite having no hydrosphere.

 

[daryen]

robject,

If Marc is using the Sunbane data, please ensure he has the correct version of the Trojan Reaches, Deneb, and Reft. Like I mentioned before, the Sunbane data for the Trojan Reaches (that I found, anyway) is flat out wrong. It is completely different from the published material.

Also, make sure that his information for the Gateway Domain is correct, too. If I remember correctly, much of that data was regenerated from anything that had been done before. As the book is now published canon, those four sectors in the Sunbane data need to be corrected/replaced, too.

 

[Whipsnade]

Robject,

Do we have enough examples now?

Sunbanes' version of the Delphi, Deneb, Gateway, Reft, Trojan Reaches, and Zarushagar sectors all do not match published the published versions.

That's 6 sectors out of 23, more than 25% percent.

Throw out Sunbane and regenerate. It's neither worth fixing nor repair.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[robject]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:

Maybe if we calmly report in the hundreds (or even thousands) of changes that will be necessary, perhaps that will better encourage the process to head in the direction that both of us seem to think it needs to head.

Thank you, and yes.