UWP Changes
- Thread starter far-trader
- Start date
This topic is starting to span several parallel issues; therefore, I'm creating a separate category for all Second Survey-related topics on Traveller5.com:
http://traveller5.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
EDIT I will manage the various Second Survey topics on Traveller5.com, with the exception of playtest data -- for example, the link to the master data list -- which will remain on the Moot.
http://traveller5.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14
EDIT I will manage the various Second Survey topics on Traveller5.com, with the exception of playtest data -- for example, the link to the master data list -- which will remain on the Moot.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
What do you mean? </font>[/QUOTE]It seems that T4 added some worlds into subsector A. I think they ought to go away... </font>[/QUOTE]And going away they shall be . . . actually, once I get home, I will produce three lists. Sunbane, M1000, and the difference. You can show them to MWM for confirmation.
I'll be headed off to traveller5.com for most of the rest of this discussion, but I will continue to monitor and post here as necessary.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
If it isn't in actual canon print somewhere (which includes Hinterworlds and Mendan from Challenge, for example, but not Far Frontiers coreward half, which was in Traveller Chronicle, an only vaguely sanctioned fanzine). and is outside the rectangle of 35 sectors that contains the Imperium, then it was fan-generated. The old Sunbane data for that 35 sector area WAS generated within the auspices of GDW, but was used initially ONLY to generate the Atlas of the Imperium. The data generated included all the usual sector data except world names; only Hi Pop worlds were named.
As such, if you have an old Sunbane-era sector file for an unpublished sector in the 35 sector AotI area that has names for every world, those *names* were fan generated, probably by a member of HIWG. Knowing what labors of love some of those were (Lishun was lavished with an amazing level of work, for example), I'd be inclined to keep those names in many cases. After all, if *someone* paid that much attention at some point, their work is probably worth considering.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ummm, robject, where are those files you mention?
Some people talked about tweaking the world generation system, and there's no doubt that there are things that could be done to improve it. Minimum world sizes for various atmospheres and hydrospheres, minimum poplulations for worlds with shipyards, minimum tech levels for worlds without breathable atmospheres, etc.
But fixing the WGS, worthwhile though it may be[*], will not solve the existing problem with the canonical OTU UWPs. The problem with them is that they were published without anyone vetting them first.
[*] And I'm not entirely sure it is a good idea, since it would eliminate strange combinations entirely. The problem I have with the canonical UWPs of the OTU isn't that they include some impossible and near-impossible UWPs; it's that they include so many impossible and near-impossible UWPs (as well as some that are perfectly possible, but unreasonable in the context they exist in).
Don't get me wrong. I like the world generation system, I really do. I think it represents a brilliant idea. But what it produces is not a finished product. The Spinward Marches was not a finished product. Even if every single UWP in the Marches[*] had been individually possible, the odds are that the game universe could have benefitted immensely from having some of them altered a bit. Because the Marches are not 400 individual star systems jumbled together randomly[**]; they're 400 star systems that has interacted for a thousand years and more.
[*] I use the Marches as an example because that's the part of the OTU that I'm most familiar with, but everything I'm saying will apply to any other published Traveller game setting.
[**] Well, yes, they are, but they shouldn't be
.
Take a perfectly possible UWP like C866546-8/1 (the '/#' is the way I denote the population multiplier when I don't care about gas giants and planetoid belts). That would be perfect possible in a setting where there are lots of empty worlds just as good available for other settlers to pick or a setting where there is a powerful interstellar state around to prevent would-be claim-jumpers from moving in. But it's pretty damn unlikely in a setting with a history of centuries worth of immigration and no nearby worlds with the strength to defend it (especially if there are few other nice worlds in the neighborhood). Or a crappy world with a high population could be explained as a trade centre, but only if it actually happened to lie between the proper distance from two high-population worlds.
IMO,ideally no official set of UWPs should be published without someone having gone over every single one of them and found an explanation for each.
Now, I know as well as anyone that this simply isn't realistic for a game company that hopes to make money. I know how much work was involved in making the 30-odd worlds of the Sword Worlds subsector work together as a group. Sure, some of the trouble we had stemmed from impossible UWPs, but my guess is that 90% of the work came from making perfectly possible UWPs work together. I've also, as a hobby, been working for a decade on the history of the Spinward Marches. My ambition is to make a Galactic map for (roughly) every century from 55 to 1120, and so far I've managed to get the Year 55 map fairly well finished, the Year 125 map more than halfway finished, and scratched the surface of the Year 200 map.
So, no, I don't expect any game company to pay anyone for doing the Imperium in that level of detail. But I do know that a 'first pass' of a subsector can be done in about 8 hours (because as an experiment I did the two subsectors in The Stoner Express in two days. Never got around to posting it...).
Of course, the entire Imperium has about 300 subsectors, so I don't know if even that much is realistic.
Hans
But fixing the WGS, worthwhile though it may be[*], will not solve the existing problem with the canonical OTU UWPs. The problem with them is that they were published without anyone vetting them first.
[*] And I'm not entirely sure it is a good idea, since it would eliminate strange combinations entirely. The problem I have with the canonical UWPs of the OTU isn't that they include some impossible and near-impossible UWPs; it's that they include so many impossible and near-impossible UWPs (as well as some that are perfectly possible, but unreasonable in the context they exist in).
Don't get me wrong. I like the world generation system, I really do. I think it represents a brilliant idea. But what it produces is not a finished product. The Spinward Marches was not a finished product. Even if every single UWP in the Marches[*] had been individually possible, the odds are that the game universe could have benefitted immensely from having some of them altered a bit. Because the Marches are not 400 individual star systems jumbled together randomly[**]; they're 400 star systems that has interacted for a thousand years and more.
[*] I use the Marches as an example because that's the part of the OTU that I'm most familiar with, but everything I'm saying will apply to any other published Traveller game setting.
[**] Well, yes, they are, but they shouldn't be
.Take a perfectly possible UWP like C866546-8/1 (the '/#' is the way I denote the population multiplier when I don't care about gas giants and planetoid belts). That would be perfect possible in a setting where there are lots of empty worlds just as good available for other settlers to pick or a setting where there is a powerful interstellar state around to prevent would-be claim-jumpers from moving in. But it's pretty damn unlikely in a setting with a history of centuries worth of immigration and no nearby worlds with the strength to defend it (especially if there are few other nice worlds in the neighborhood). Or a crappy world with a high population could be explained as a trade centre, but only if it actually happened to lie between the proper distance from two high-population worlds.
IMO,ideally no official set of UWPs should be published without someone having gone over every single one of them and found an explanation for each.
Now, I know as well as anyone that this simply isn't realistic for a game company that hopes to make money. I know how much work was involved in making the 30-odd worlds of the Sword Worlds subsector work together as a group. Sure, some of the trouble we had stemmed from impossible UWPs, but my guess is that 90% of the work came from making perfectly possible UWPs work together. I've also, as a hobby, been working for a decade on the history of the Spinward Marches. My ambition is to make a Galactic map for (roughly) every century from 55 to 1120, and so far I've managed to get the Year 55 map fairly well finished, the Year 125 map more than halfway finished, and scratched the surface of the Year 200 map.
So, no, I don't expect any game company to pay anyone for doing the Imperium in that level of detail. But I do know that a 'first pass' of a subsector can be done in about 8 hours (because as an experiment I did the two subsectors in The Stoner Express in two days. Never got around to posting it...).
Of course, the entire Imperium has about 300 subsectors, so I don't know if even that much is realistic.
Hans
I think I missed that post originally. You have some good ideas there, although I disagree with a few of the details (I'd say that jump-3 was better than jump-2 was better than jump-1 (this is based on the assumption that ships don't need to spend several percent of their volume on fuel tankage for their power plants)). I agree with the basic idea, though.
Your suggestion about using different rules for alien sectors is intriguing. I'm reminded of an idea that struck me a while back: Vargr and Aslan and humans and Hivers and K'Kree can all use the same sort of life-bearing worlds, but will a world support the same numbers of the different species? I know the world generation system produce that effect, but wouldn't the world that could support X number of omnivores support different numbers of carnivors and of herbivores? Not to mention twice as many whatevervores with an average weight of 80 kg than thesamekindofvores with an average weight of 160 kg?
Hans
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Your ideas are the correct ones. The ones I personally favor.
Regrettably, they are not the ones that are currently favored by the person in charge.
Slogging through it all is, apparently, what we're faced with, for the moment.
It is my sincere hope that by calmly and reasonably outlining and documenting the vast problems, that we'll make some headway toward the best possible solution.
However, as far as I can tell, just jumping up and down and windmilling our arms while pointing toward what we want to happen will not accomplish much.
-------------------------------------------------
See the activity at: Second Survey, for more information.
-------------------------------------------------
I personally believe that progress is being made.
Because I believe that some progress is being made, I am willing to help.
Well, I'd like everyone to look at some name change suggestions to Second Survey mainworld names and submit their two cents. We've been slogging though the Core sector, and I'm preparing to submit a batch of name change requests to Marc for subsectors I,J,K,L.
http://traveller5.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1746#1746
Also in the works are name change requests for subsectors M,N,O,P. Creative alternative suggestions that "fix" some of the more ungainly T4 names would be helpful.
http://traveller5.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1746#1746
Also in the works are name change requests for subsectors M,N,O,P. Creative alternative suggestions that "fix" some of the more ungainly T4 names would be helpful.
Thread Resurrection
a.k.a. "Bill Cameron and Mike West are right"
Lots of us have written scripts and programs that can manipulate sector data. If you're interested, let's put them to work and come up with some possibilities.
Here's what I'm thinking of.
</font>
I was going to post the algorithm I use to re-engineer AoTI data, but it's long. So I'll link to the module:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/scripts/UwpTools.pm
The subroutine name is "regenerateAoti".
Like I said, it's long, and a bit subtle, which means there may be bugs. Anyone else who's done this, send me some snippets so I can cross-verify. I'd like several of us independently develop tools to do those above steps.
a.k.a. "Bill Cameron and Mike West are right"
Lots of us have written scripts and programs that can manipulate sector data. If you're interested, let's put them to work and come up with some possibilities.
Here's what I'm thinking of.
</font>
- Full Amnesty for the Spinward Marches.</font>
- Full Amnesty List per sector, for UWP data to be left untouched.</font>
- AoTI List per sector, for UWP data that is to be generated with AoTI data retained (tricky but doable).</font>
- All system names and locations retained, for now.</font>
- UWP data regenerated using the most recent tweaks to the mainworld generation system.</font>
- Star data regenerated using Malenfant's algorithm, or a reasonable approximation thereof, or Book 6 (what the heck) -- assuming you can add some sanity checks(!). Feel free to keep the "new" stellar representation, but it may not be retained in a final import. TBD.</font>
I was going to post the algorithm I use to re-engineer AoTI data, but it's long. So I'll link to the module:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/scripts/UwpTools.pm
The subroutine name is "regenerateAoti".
Like I said, it's long, and a bit subtle, which means there may be bugs. Anyone else who's done this, send me some snippets so I can cross-verify. I'd like several of us independently develop tools to do those above steps.
Here's minimal Sunbane 'facts' worth keeping, assuming they're correct:
</font>
Here's a bit of logic I added that needs deleting, fixing, or approval:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> if TL < 7
world size = world size +5 if world size < 3
atmosphere = 7 if atmosphere is one of [456789A]</pre>[/QUOTE]Marc says:
</font>
- Starport code</font>
- If the mainworld is an asteroid</font>
- If the mainworld is High population</font>
- If the mainworld has H20; i.e. water</font>
- GG presence ('g' of pbg > 0)</font>
- Bases in system</font>
Here's a bit of logic I added that needs deleting, fixing, or approval:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> if TL < 7
world size = world size +5 if world size < 3
atmosphere = 7 if atmosphere is one of [456789A]</pre>[/QUOTE]Marc says:
I'm going to step through my thoughts about regenerating world data, using the bare modicum of data from Sunbane mentioned above.
The 'PBG' in PBG. Randomly roll for pop mult and asteroid belts. If the old data had GG = nonzero, then the new one should, too.
Mainworld size. If the mainworld isn't an asteroid, roll until size larger than 0.
Atmosphere. 2d6 - 7 + size. But, if size = 0 then atmosphere is 0. atm = 0 if atm below 0, unless the world has water!
Hydrographics. If hyd is not originally zero, then determine hyd:
</font>
If world is labelled "High pop", then roll until pop above 8 (if it's below 9).
otherwise roll until pop is 8 or less (if it's above 8).
Determine gov and law level normally.
Determine TL normally, with T5 changes:
</font>
Wierd back-checking: if TL below 7, then:
</font>
Stars completely regenerated. Currently, I'm using Malenfant's system, but that may well be modified to suit T5's looser requirements!
The 'PBG' in PBG. Randomly roll for pop mult and asteroid belts. If the old data had GG = nonzero, then the new one should, too.
Mainworld size. If the mainworld isn't an asteroid, roll until size larger than 0.
Atmosphere. 2d6 - 7 + size. But, if size = 0 then atmosphere is 0. atm = 0 if atm below 0, unless the world has water!
Hydrographics. If hyd is not originally zero, then determine hyd:
</font>
- 2d6 - 7 + size (that's SIZE)</font>
- hyd = hyd - 4 if atm is 0, 1, 10, 11, or 12</font>
- reroll if hyd is below 0 or equals 0</font>
If world is labelled "High pop", then roll until pop above 8 (if it's below 9).
otherwise roll until pop is 8 or less (if it's above 8).
Determine gov and law level normally.
Determine TL normally, with T5 changes:
</font>
- DM+1 if pop = 8</font>
- DM+3 if pop = 9</font>
- DM+5 if pop = 10</font>
Wierd back-checking: if TL below 7, then:
</font>
- world size += 5 if world size below 3</font>
- atmosphere = 7 if atmosphere in [456789A]</font>
Stars completely regenerated. Currently, I'm using Malenfant's system, but that may well be modified to suit T5's looser requirements!
Sectorwide Amnesty
These sectors will not go through the Regeneromatron. Individual worlds are up for suggestions, as usual.
Spinward Marches
Core
Mike: what about Deneb?
System Amnesty
I'm compiling a list of systems by sector which will have individual amnesty. None of their data will be sent to the Regeneromatron. Put your favorites in here.
</font>
AOTI Amnesty
I'm hoping we can retain AOTI-levels of data from Sunbane; however, I understand that much of Sunbane doesn't correspond to AOTI. So what we really need is a mechanical way to figure out if there's any pieces of data worth saving or not, and how vast a regeneration process Marc really wants.
Right now, I'm happy he wants any regeneration at all.
These sectors will not go through the Regeneromatron. Individual worlds are up for suggestions, as usual.
Spinward Marches
Core
Mike: what about Deneb?
System Amnesty
I'm compiling a list of systems by sector which will have individual amnesty. None of their data will be sent to the Regeneromatron. Put your favorites in here.
</font>
- Lobok, Ka Eto, and Shush [Corridor]</font>
AOTI Amnesty
I'm hoping we can retain AOTI-levels of data from Sunbane; however, I understand that much of Sunbane doesn't correspond to AOTI. So what we really need is a mechanical way to figure out if there's any pieces of data worth saving or not, and how vast a regeneration process Marc really wants.
Right now, I'm happy he wants any regeneration at all.
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Using AotI as a base starting point, "manually" extract the following "skeleton" UWP elements (note that AotI doesn't actually give complete UWPs, for those that don't have access to it):
Sector Name
AotI provides names for all sectors covered in the book.
Subsector Names
AotI does not give subsector names, even for subsequently well-charted areas of space such as the Spinward Marches or the Solomani Rim.
System Name
AotI only includes the names of worlds with Pop digits of 9 or A (but it doesn't tell you which Pop digit applies). All HiPop world names must be retained, as these are canon. All other systems/worlds appear to be fair game for a name change.
Starport
Use the Starport code shown in the system's hex in AotI.
Example: A
Size
Where AotI shows "dots" in the system hex (i.e. asteroid belt), size = 0.
Example: A0
Where AotI shows either an open circle (a desert world) or a solid circle (a world with water/ice caps) apply the WorldGen rule common across CT/MT/T4, i.e. only asteroid belts are size 0.
Thus any world shown in AotI that is not an asteroid belt (i.e. is not represented in AotI by a set of dots in the hex) must be size 1+. Use "1+" as the size code and determine the actual world size later.
Example: A1+
Atmosphere and Hydrographics
Where AotI shows "dots" in the system hex (i.e. asteroid belt), apply the canon rules for asteroid belts in relation to atmosphere and hydrographics, i.e.: Atmo = 0 and Hydro = 0.
Example: A000
Where AotI shows an open circle (desert world) use the canon Trade Code parameters of Atmo = 2+ and Hydro = 0.
Example: A1+2+0
Where AotI shows a solid circle (a world with water) use "x" for both UWP elements and determine these later. This is because AotI doesn't show if a world has liquid water (canon Trade Code paramters: Atmo 2+, Hydro 2+) or water as ice caps (canon Trade Code parameters: Atmo = 0 or 1, Hydro = 1+)
Example: A1+xx
Population
AotI only names HiPop worlds (canon Trade Code parameter: Pop = 9+). Use "8-" for all unnamed worlds, and "9+" for all HiPop worlds.
Example: A1+2+09+ (a HiPop desert world)
Example: A1+xx9+ (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Example: A1+xx8- (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Example: A1+2+08- (a non-HiPop desert world)
Example: A0009+ (a HiPop asteroid belt)
Example: A0008- (a non-HiPop asteroid belt)
Government
Governments are not shown in AotI, therefore use "x" again.
Law Level
Again, LL is not shown in AotI, so "x" is used again.
Tech Level
AotI doesn't give TLs, so "x" is used again.
Thus, from AotI, you can extract the following "skeleton" UWPs:
A0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
B0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
C0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
D0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
E0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
X0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
A0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
B0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
C0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
D0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
E0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
X0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
A1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
B1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
C1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
D1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
E1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
X1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
A1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
B1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
C1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
D1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
E1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
X1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
A1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
B1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
C1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
D1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
E1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
X1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
A1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
B1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
C1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
D1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
E1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
X1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Bases
AotI shows bases, so use the correct canon Base code for the system's Allegiance and the type(s) of bases present.
Trade Codes
AotI doesn't give these so initially only use As, De and Hi, as these are the only codes directly extractable from AotI (all the other codes require exact numbers from the UWP).
Travel Zones
Not shown so therefore not used.
PBG
Pop Multiplier
Use "x" again as this is not given in AotI.
Belts
AotI doesn't give belts so "x" is used.
Gas Giants
Where AotI shows a black dot representing the presence of in-system gas giant(s), use "1+", as AotI does not show how many gas giants are present, just simply that at least one gas giant is present in-system.
Where no black dot is shown, 0 is used.
Thus initial PBGs can only look like these:
xx0
xx1+
Allegiance
AotI shows each system's Allegiance code, so use that.
Stellar Data
AotI doesn't show stellar data. Personally, I either leave this blank, generate a new star using Malenfant/TempMal's system or make up the stellar data.
Full Example:
Juess 0917 E1+2+09+xx-x De Hi xx0 So
All of the above UWP elements are taken straight from AotI. The canon information on the culture of Juess in LBB 8 can be applied to further flesh out the UWP.
I admit it can take a while to construct the skeleton UWPs maunually by working your way through your chosen sector in AotI, but it gives a good canon starting point for regeneration.
Sector Name
AotI provides names for all sectors covered in the book.
Subsector Names
AotI does not give subsector names, even for subsequently well-charted areas of space such as the Spinward Marches or the Solomani Rim.
System Name
AotI only includes the names of worlds with Pop digits of 9 or A (but it doesn't tell you which Pop digit applies). All HiPop world names must be retained, as these are canon. All other systems/worlds appear to be fair game for a name change.
Starport
Use the Starport code shown in the system's hex in AotI.
Example: A
Size
Where AotI shows "dots" in the system hex (i.e. asteroid belt), size = 0.
Example: A0
Where AotI shows either an open circle (a desert world) or a solid circle (a world with water/ice caps) apply the WorldGen rule common across CT/MT/T4, i.e. only asteroid belts are size 0.
Thus any world shown in AotI that is not an asteroid belt (i.e. is not represented in AotI by a set of dots in the hex) must be size 1+. Use "1+" as the size code and determine the actual world size later.
Example: A1+
Atmosphere and Hydrographics
Where AotI shows "dots" in the system hex (i.e. asteroid belt), apply the canon rules for asteroid belts in relation to atmosphere and hydrographics, i.e.: Atmo = 0 and Hydro = 0.
Example: A000
Where AotI shows an open circle (desert world) use the canon Trade Code parameters of Atmo = 2+ and Hydro = 0.
Example: A1+2+0
Where AotI shows a solid circle (a world with water) use "x" for both UWP elements and determine these later. This is because AotI doesn't show if a world has liquid water (canon Trade Code paramters: Atmo 2+, Hydro 2+) or water as ice caps (canon Trade Code parameters: Atmo = 0 or 1, Hydro = 1+)
Example: A1+xx
Population
AotI only names HiPop worlds (canon Trade Code parameter: Pop = 9+). Use "8-" for all unnamed worlds, and "9+" for all HiPop worlds.
Example: A1+2+09+ (a HiPop desert world)
Example: A1+xx9+ (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Example: A1+xx8- (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Example: A1+2+08- (a non-HiPop desert world)
Example: A0009+ (a HiPop asteroid belt)
Example: A0008- (a non-HiPop asteroid belt)
Government
Governments are not shown in AotI, therefore use "x" again.
Law Level
Again, LL is not shown in AotI, so "x" is used again.
Tech Level
AotI doesn't give TLs, so "x" is used again.
Thus, from AotI, you can extract the following "skeleton" UWPs:
A0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
B0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
C0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
D0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
E0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
X0008-xx-x (a non-HiPop asterid belt)
A0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
B0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
C0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
D0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
E0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
X0009+xx-x (a HiPop asterid belt)
A1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
B1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
C1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
D1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
E1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
X1+2+08-xx-x (a non-HiPop desert world)
A1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
B1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
C1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
D1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
E1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
X1+2+09+xx-x (a HiPop desert world)
A1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
B1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
C1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
D1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
E1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
X1+xx8-xx-x (a non-HiPop world with water/ice caps)
A1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
B1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
C1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
D1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
E1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
X1+xx9+xx-x (a HiPop world with water/ice caps)
Bases
AotI shows bases, so use the correct canon Base code for the system's Allegiance and the type(s) of bases present.
Trade Codes
AotI doesn't give these so initially only use As, De and Hi, as these are the only codes directly extractable from AotI (all the other codes require exact numbers from the UWP).
Travel Zones
Not shown so therefore not used.
PBG
Pop Multiplier
Use "x" again as this is not given in AotI.
Belts
AotI doesn't give belts so "x" is used.
Gas Giants
Where AotI shows a black dot representing the presence of in-system gas giant(s), use "1+", as AotI does not show how many gas giants are present, just simply that at least one gas giant is present in-system.
Where no black dot is shown, 0 is used.
Thus initial PBGs can only look like these:
xx0
xx1+
Allegiance
AotI shows each system's Allegiance code, so use that.
Stellar Data
AotI doesn't show stellar data. Personally, I either leave this blank, generate a new star using Malenfant/TempMal's system or make up the stellar data.
Full Example:
Juess 0917 E1+2+09+xx-x De Hi xx0 So
All of the above UWP elements are taken straight from AotI. The canon information on the culture of Juess in LBB 8 can be applied to further flesh out the UWP.
I admit it can take a while to construct the skeleton UWPs maunually by working your way through your chosen sector in AotI, but it gives a good canon starting point for regeneration.
Thanks for 'volunteering'. I think we're on the same page.
If the world is not 'As', then size is > 0. So, make sure 'x' means 'not zero' in the case of World Size.
Worlds with 'water' might also be Fl, too?
We'll retain the Sunbane world names, and simply enforce the "Hi pop" status (and "non Hi pop" status).
I'm thinking we ought to code the regeneration rules into Excel macros and lookup tables, since (1) that's a common application denominator, and (2) that's what Marc knows how to use. That way, we're all working on the same chunk of code, and Marc (and the rest of us) can convert data in easily transferred batches.
I like your notation system.
If the world is not 'As', then size is > 0. So, make sure 'x' means 'not zero' in the case of World Size.
Worlds with 'water' might also be Fl, too?
We'll retain the Sunbane world names, and simply enforce the "Hi pop" status (and "non Hi pop" status).
I'm thinking we ought to code the regeneration rules into Excel macros and lookup tables, since (1) that's a common application denominator, and (2) that's what Marc knows how to use. That way, we're all working on the same chunk of code, and Marc (and the rest of us) can convert data in easily transferred batches.
I like your notation system.
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
You're welcome
That's implied in my previous post but thanks for pointing that out - I'll clarify in the original post.
<EDIT: Previous post edited and clarified.>
True, but AotI doesn't show any actual Fl worlds, only Desert worlds and worlds with water (it doesn't even say whether the water is as ice caps or is free standing water).
Question: how does anyone identify Sunbane names? Do we go for the lowest common denominator approach? i.e. "these sources (books/websites) give these names to these systems in this sector and all the sources give the same names to these systems in this sector, therefore these names must be from Sunbane"?
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Once the "skeleton" UWPs have been created, filling in the "gaps" (i.e. setting the values of the "x" digits and defining the "+" or "-" digits) shouldn't be too much of a problem for most people.
Whether my manual system of skeleton UWP creation can be replicated electronically is anyones guess. I don't see how the data from AotI can be inputted unless it's done by hand.
Whether my manual system of skeleton UWP creation can be replicated electronically is anyones guess. I don't see how the data from AotI can be inputted unless it's done by hand.
