UWP Changes

[Gruffty]

Orignally posted by robject:
Question: Should filled-circle worlds require water seas?

Hopefully this will be of some help:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Hydro
Atmo 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A
0 Va Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic
1 ? Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic
2 De Wa
3 De Wa
4 De Wa
5 De Wa
6 De Wa
7 De Wa
8 De Wa
9 De Wa
A Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
B Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
C Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
D Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
E Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
F Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl</pre>[/QUOTE]The big gap in the middle of the above table gives all the possible Atmo vs. Hydro combinations that would give h2o on a world's surface. All the other codes are from the Trade Code parameters (MT:RM, p.50).

I seem to recall seeing a new code for T5: Oc for ocean (as in saline h2o) which was to replace Wa (water), so that Wa could be used to indicate a world with water on it but not covered in one giant ocean.

However, I can't recall the parameters for it or where I saw it (perhaps over on the T5 website?).

If I am correct, with the substitution of Oc for Wa and by redefining the parameters for Wa would make the table look like this (I think):

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Hydro
Atmo 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A
0 Va Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic
1 ? Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic Ic
2 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
3 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
4 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
5 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
6 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
7 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
8 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
9 De We We We We We We We We We Oc
A Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
B Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
C Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
D Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
E Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl
F Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl Fl</pre>[/QUOTE]From the above table, the revised parameters would be:

Wet World ("We"): Atmo 2 to 9, Hydro 1 to 9
Ocean World ("Oc") or Water World ("Wa"): Atmo 2 to 9, Hydro A
Fluid Ocean World ("Fl"): Atmo A+, Hydro 1+

 

[robject]

Wow, I don't remember Oc. I'll have to go look and see.

Anyhow, working from bare AOTI data, it looks like Sunbane had some inconsistent ideas about what "water" means.

In Corridor, "wet" means "water", and "dry" can mean fluid oceans, desert, vacuum, or ice.

In Ilelish, "wet" may also mean "fluid oceans". I think that's probably wrong, because a lot of the context in AOTI seems to be about base and frontier refueling.

 

[Gruffty]

Goddammit, it's another one of those 3 a.m. things again, where I can't remember where I saw it or what was actually written. Just be aware, everyone, that "Oc" may have oozed its way out of my brain one night at work and may not actually exist........

 

[Gruffty]

Just checked the spreadsheet Marc has allowed us access to - "Oc" isn't there. I must have seen it somewhere.

This is going to drive me completely crazy now...

 

[robject]

Beta AOTI Extraction Files Files of extracted AOTI data from Sunbane sources are available here:

AOTI Extractions

This is just a proof-of-capture concept. One step in the overall entire process.

The files are in a modified SEC format. I'm sure I'll be modifying them further.

 

[robject]

AOTI Sample File for Vland:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">0101 d-wa g
0202 c-wa-s g
0237 b-wa-w g
0306 b-wa-a
0307 c-de-s g
0311 a-de-n g
0340 a-de-a g
0422 a-de g
0431 b-wa-n answerin
0640 a-wa-n
0708 b-de-w g
0834 b-wa-a g
0835 e-as
1128 c-de-s g
1406 b-wa-a g
1408 bwang maran
1414 awang
1519 bwang kagamira
1536 c-as-s
1604 b-as g-cs
1625 awan
1710 bwaag
1717 awan vland
1718 awang
1725 bwaw
1817 a-de tauri
1822 awa kasear
1903 awan g-cs gemid
1919 bwan khula
1930 awaag
2029 bdeag
2111 c-wa g flire
2205 b-wa anarsi
2211 bwang
2409 a-wa-a
2620 bwaag
2728 a-wa-D g
2824 c-de-s g jana
2914 b-de-a mimere
2932 b-wa-b g
3221 bwaag</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

Report for Vland Sunbane

This sector assumes "Fl" and "Ic" are valid 'dry' aoti world codes.

2111 ought to have a C-starport, not B. By itself, this could be ignorable (a 1065 vs 1116 issue).

But:

2728 (Depot) IS MISSING its Gas Giant.

So, two issues I've not seen in Zarushagar, Massilia, Ilelish, or Corridor: out of 40 stars, a mislabelled starport and an omitted gas giant. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Another issue that comes to my mind is the TL of Depots. They should be near the Imperial maximum, shouldn't they?

 

[robject]

Report for Lishun Sunbane.

Tested with 40 sample systems.

This sector assumes "Fl" and 'Ic' are a valid 'dry' aoti world codes. All but one sampled water/no water codes are OK. See below for the exception.

Many systems report Naval bases only, which ought to be scout bases, way stations, or scout bases + naval bases. This is a worse error than Zarushagar Sunbane, which at least got the solo scout bases correct. All systems with bases will have to be double-checked for Lishun.

The world at 0806 is starport A with a naval base in AOTI, but in Sunbane it's an X with no base. This is obviously due to the milieu (1116 = Vargr raiding or Rebellion fighting).

World 1219 (Depot) is not marked as Depot in Sunbane. It does not have base code D (it's an N).

The world at 1222 is marked "water present" in AOTI, but in Sunbane it has Fluid seas. I believe this is an error; I have no idea if other Sunbane Fl and Ic worlds correspond to 'wet' worlds in AOTI. Most of the Fluid ocean worlds in the sample (there were several) corresponded with 'dry' worlds, as mentioned at top. Therefore, this may simply be a random error.

Update There are a LOT of Fl worlds that are actually marked 'water present' in AOTI.

 

[inexorabletash]

BTW, Robert - awesome work.

Re: Depot TL - I'm still under the illusion (pending a stricter definition in T5) that TL = maximum manufacturing capacity of the world, e.g. what the highest TL items labs or factories on the world can produce.

(Or what you're supposed to *think* it can produce.)

I can imagine a Naval Depot that's simply a parking lot for ships and warehouse for supplies, but can't actually produce anything. You could argue that it can "produce" from a warehouse, but IMHO that's stretching it.

 

[robject]

Well, we do know that, when not in wartime mode, a Depot could be essentially a place for mothball fleets.

But a Depot mainworld at TL9 seems ridiculous.

On the other hand, if Depot is simply a resupply center, then it doesn't matter what the world TL is. Its stock comes from all over the sector.

 

[Whipsnade]

Robject,

MT's Rebellion Sourcebook lists Depot/Zarushagar at TL6 and Depot/Lishun at TL7.

I don't like either and retcon them IMTU. Just thought you should know however.

Returning to 'Watching In Awe' mode...


Have fun,
Bill

 

[robject]

Yes, they're mystifying and jarring. I'll see if Marc will allow an official baseline. He does seem to dissociate starport from mainworld more clearly nowadays.

P.S. I find your state of incredulous awe to be strangely encouraging.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by robject:
P.S. I find your state of incredulous awe to be strangely encouraging.

Robject,

Well, it's like I wrote to that fellow earlier who wanted to start fiddling with the UWP. He had some good ideas, but this is not the time or place to start bringing them up.

There's some real work being done here by a few very dedicated people who have agreed on a workable system of corrections. What's more, they have the full backing of MWM and are in regular contact with him so they can get 'rulings' quick & easy. All that adds up to 'success' in my book.

You've got enough 'eyes' but not too many 'cooks'. You're using a system everyone agrees with. Best of all, the creator has 'signed off' on the project while providing guidance and rulings in 'real time'.

What's not to like?

I'm watching because I don't want to upset the 'system' in place. We've waited decades for something like this to occur, constantly kibbitzing or jogging your elbows will only screw things up. Jumping in with a helpful fact or two every now and then is about as much of an interruption as anyone should make.

Returning to lurk mode...


Bill

 

[Plankowner]

I agree with Bill. This is AWESOME and I don't want to mess up a system that is obviously working.

Best of all have been the little snipits from MWM about WHY somethings should be left alone. We have an idea of HIS vision of the Imperium. Very Cool.

Lurking...

 

[robject]

Sector Report for Gushemege Sunbane

Subtitle: Who Moved My Usdiki?!

35 samples.

Like most other sectors, Gushemege allows Fl and Ic worlds to sit in for AOTI 'dry' worlds. This is fine, except when AOTI wet worlds also become Fl worlds.

Gushemege Sunbane has the best base data of all sectors I've looked at so far. The Depot it there. The Way stations are there. The combo bases are there! They are all correct, except for one case that are probably Rebellion-inspired: 2031 is downgraded from A to E, and its Scout and Naval bases are wiped out.

Aside from that, 0237 was high pop in AOTI, but is super-low pop in Sunbane.

There are also a significant number of 'Fl' worlds which should be 'water' worlds. I consider this to be incorrect.

And here's the interesting one. Usdiki has been swapped with Kamurinmur. Is this to support the Strephon Thing?

 

[robject]

Sunbane Summary - 7 April 2006

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Sector To-do
Zarushagar Ready to regenerate
Ilelish Ready to regenerate
Massilia Multi-base ID & fix; TL fix; Fl check
Corridor Rewind; Fl check
Vland Detailed check
Lishun Rewind; Multi-base ID & fix; Fl check
Gushmege Rewind; Fl check; Usdiki!</pre>[/QUOTE]Here's What I'd Like

Some of you have AOTI.

I'd like lists:
</font>

• Which AOTI worlds are 'dry'</font>
• Which AOTI worlds have naval AND scout bases</font>
• Where AOTI the depots and way stations are</font>
• Which AOTI worlds have no GG</font>

If I had some of these lists for some sectors, my job would be easier. And all three of these data points are RARE, meaning most worlds are wet, have a GG, and don't have two bases.

I'll try it out and see how fast it is.

 

[robject]

Correction List - Massilia

The hardest detail to gather by far is the "No GG" list. Gas giants are just little pips. For most sectors, gas giant data is pretty decent.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">** Wrong Base: 1630 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 2926 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 2624 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 2523 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 2916 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 1630 (should be A)
** Wrong Base: 2905 (should be W)
** Wrong Base: 2735 (should be W)
** Wrong Base: 1837 (should be W)
** Wrong Base: 1326 (should be W)
** Wrong Base: 1424 (should be W)
11 errors were found.</pre>[/QUOTE]</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">--- # YAML
A:
- 1630
- 2926
- 2624
- 2523
- 2916
- 1731
- 1630

D:
- 0301

W:
- 2905
- 2735
- 1837
- 1326
- 1424

Dry:
- 0802
- 0703
- 0803
- 0307
- 0508
- 0608
- 0512
- 0307
- 0212
- 0314
- 0414
- 0115
- 0814
- 0416
- 0418
- 0223
- 0720
- 0425
- 0426
- 0226
- 0530
- 0534
- 0234
- 0336
- 0837
- 0839
- 0740
- 0840
- 0440
- 1305
- 1106
- 1605
- 1507
- 1508
- 1015
- 1017
- 1019
- 1320
- 1319
- 1122
- 1522
- 1424
- 1325
- 0928
- 1028
- 1328
- 1130
- 0934
- 1634
- 0938
- 0939
- 1038
- 1703
- 2001
- 2102
- 2004
- 1705
- 2305
- 1809
- 1808
- 1910
- 2008
- 2407
- 2411
- 1713
- 1915
- 1917
- 2216
- 2318
- 2119
- 2018
- 1820
- 1818
- 2317
- 2421
- 2328
- 2231
- 1831
- 2433
- 1938
- 2508
- 2609
- 3207
- 2613
- 2913
- 2916
- 2516
- 2917
- 2718
- 3117
- 2719
- 3123
- 3125
- 2926
- 2927
- 3027
- 2827
- 2529
- 2729
- 2929
- 2531
- 2630
- 2731
- 2931
- 2933
- 3232
- 2934
- 3233
- 2735
- 3136
- 3236
- 2837
- 2738
- 2540</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Gruffty]

Robject: how far "out" are we working on this? i.e. are we only looking at the area of space occupied by the 3rd Imperium?

 

[Gruffty]

Or are we working on the whole of AotI? It would help me a great deal if we could establish this.

 

[Gruffty]

I'm happy to do my "bit" of AotI. However, I've got 7 sets of UWPs for the same sector, some of which are "dated" (i.e. given a game year,e.g. 1107) but others are "undated".