UWP Changes
- Thread starter far-trader
- Start date
Cheers
Strategy
When starting with an unworked sector, I'll take some samples of each type of system (dry, wet, various base mix, gg, no gg...). 40 samples should tell where the problems are, and screen out the more easily fixed sectors.
If the problems are only with multiple bases and Sunbane-only Fluid/Ice world problems, then manual fixes are fine.
If the problems are with wet-dry worlds or gas giant presence, then I'll have to do something more drastic. Level 2 checks involve printing out Sunbane maps, rendered in a style similar to AOTI, and eyeballing both of them. I can mark of problem systems on the Sunbane map with a highlighter, then start manual updates. I will probably have to do that with Vland.
I'm not sure if it's better to just print out a list of Sunbane hexes for gas giant presence, and simply treat it as a checklist, scanning down AOTI as I go. It sounds painful.
Finally, if the problem is allegiance codes, such as sectors which suffered Vargr swarms, then I'll have to do eyeballing, except I may colorize the Vargr allegiances on the Sunbane printout to make them more obvious.
When starting with an unworked sector, I'll take some samples of each type of system (dry, wet, various base mix, gg, no gg...). 40 samples should tell where the problems are, and screen out the more easily fixed sectors.
If the problems are only with multiple bases and Sunbane-only Fluid/Ice world problems, then manual fixes are fine.
If the problems are with wet-dry worlds or gas giant presence, then I'll have to do something more drastic. Level 2 checks involve printing out Sunbane maps, rendered in a style similar to AOTI, and eyeballing both of them. I can mark of problem systems on the Sunbane map with a highlighter, then start manual updates. I will probably have to do that with Vland.
I'm not sure if it's better to just print out a list of Sunbane hexes for gas giant presence, and simply treat it as a checklist, scanning down AOTI as I go. It sounds painful.
Finally, if the problem is allegiance codes, such as sectors which suffered Vargr swarms, then I'll have to do eyeballing, except I may colorize the Vargr allegiances on the Sunbane printout to make them more obvious.
Report for Vland Sunbane
Vland Sunbane had a number of minor errors in it, as well as rebellion-era data that needed to be rolled back.
One world was tagged TL-G, and several worlds were labelled as Vargr which were taken during the Rebellion.
One starport was labelled C instead of D.
One world was listed as having nine gas giants. In AOTI, it has none. (It may have been intended for the pop mult).
A visual scan of all worlds was done, and all the right bases appear to be in all the right places. Wet worlds have water, and other worlds are vacuum, deserts, Ic, or Fl, in keeping with the norm.
Vland sector is ready for regeneration.
"Corrected" sectors to-date (Vland, Ilelish, Zarushagar) and their AOTI input files are at the page mentioned in an earlier post.
Vland Sunbane had a number of minor errors in it, as well as rebellion-era data that needed to be rolled back.
One world was tagged TL-G, and several worlds were labelled as Vargr which were taken during the Rebellion.
One starport was labelled C instead of D.
One world was listed as having nine gas giants. In AOTI, it has none. (It may have been intended for the pop mult).
A visual scan of all worlds was done, and all the right bases appear to be in all the right places. Wet worlds have water, and other worlds are vacuum, deserts, Ic, or Fl, in keeping with the norm.
Vland sector is ready for regeneration.
"Corrected" sectors to-date (Vland, Ilelish, Zarushagar) and their AOTI input files are at the page mentioned in an earlier post.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I just want to stress that, based on what I have found in the four sectors of the Domain of Deneb, there is no "roll back" necessary.
The MT data is exactly the same as CT data, except for the change of allegiance codes. Specifically, the population, government, law level, tech level, and base codes were not changed when worlds went from "Imperial" to "Aslan" or "Vargr". As such, the UWPs need no "roll back", just reverted allegiance codes.
(I was waiting for you to show up, Daryen. Unless you say otherwise, shall I leave Deneb alone?)
I'm not rolling back pop, gov, LL, TL, or bases. Actually, I am rolling back worlds at TL 16. I didn't realize they were in CT data?
At any rate, rolling back those numbers doesn't really matter. They will be re-rolled, with the exception of any world stats that have been published.
Is there a list of those, somewhere, by the way?
I'm not rolling back pop, gov, LL, TL, or bases. Actually, I am rolling back worlds at TL 16. I didn't realize they were in CT data?
At any rate, rolling back those numbers doesn't really matter. They will be re-rolled, with the exception of any world stats that have been published.
Is there a list of those, somewhere, by the way?
State of the Imperium.
11 Sectors These sectors are published, are being fixed by a dedicated person, or have been fixed already, and therefore will change only minimally:
</font>
19 Sectors Sunbane sectors which have been "primed" to where their data agrees with the AOTI baseline (and amnesty worlds have been marked) in order to regenerate them:
</font>
11 Sectors These sectors are published, are being fixed by a dedicated person, or have been fixed already, and therefore will change only minimally:
</font>
- Spinward Marches (Marc is taking suggestions)</font>
- Solomani Rim</font>
- Massilia (Some base codes fixed)</font>
- Spica (Gruffty)</font>
- Deneb (Daryen?)</font>
- Trojan Reaches (Daryen?)</font>
- Reft (Daryen?)</font>
- Ley (QLI)</font>
- Glimmerdrift (QLI)</font>
- Gateway (QLI)</font>
- Crucis Margin (QLI)</font>
19 Sectors Sunbane sectors which have been "primed" to where their data agrees with the AOTI baseline (and amnesty worlds have been marked) in order to regenerate them:
</font>
- Alpha Crucis (Jim)</font>
- Antares (Jim)</font>
- Core</font>
- Corridor</font>
- Dagudashag</font>
- Daibei (Jim)</font>
- Delphi (Jim)</font>
- Diaspora (Jim)</font>
- Empty Quarter (Jim)</font>
- Fornast (Jim)</font>
- Gushemege</font>
- Ilelish</font>
- Lishun</font>
- Magyar (Jim)</font>
- Old Expanses (Jim)</font>
- Reaver's Deep</font>
- Verge</font>
- Vland</font>
- Zarushagar</font>
Oh heck yeah. If you're interested in it, I've done no work yet on these sectors:
</font>
My AOTI-related work is stored at:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/survey/aoti
The Sunbane sector PDFs, rendered to look somewhat like AOTI pages, are here:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/survey/aoti/sunbane
Each one is from 60kb to 70kb (that's right, they're relatively small).
</font>
- Antares</font>
- Empty Quarter</font>
- Trojan Reaches</font>
- Reft</font>
- Dagudashaag</font>
- Core (well, didn't sample it anyway)</font>
- Fornast</font>
- Ley</font>
- Delphi</font>
- Glimmerdrift Reaches?</font>
- Reaver's Deep</font>
- Daibei</font>
- Diaspora</font>
- Old Expanses</font>
- Magyar</font>
- Alpha Crucis</font>
My AOTI-related work is stored at:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/survey/aoti
The Sunbane sector PDFs, rendered to look somewhat like AOTI pages, are here:
http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/survey/aoti/sunbane
Each one is from 60kb to 70kb (that's right, they're relatively small).
Report for Corridor Sunbane
The Corridor sample taken last week showed no transcription errors between wet and dry worlds, and no base errors, either. Depot is there, as well as way stations (including one Naval Base + Way Station). All non-GG worlds are accounted for.
Reversion to pre-Rebellion-era allegiances suggested some occasional confusion between Vargr base codes and Imperial base codes, but I manually compared the two starmaps and reverted the listing to AOTI.
I believe Corridor is ready for regeneration.
The Corridor sample taken last week showed no transcription errors between wet and dry worlds, and no base errors, either. Depot is there, as well as way stations (including one Naval Base + Way Station). All non-GG worlds are accounted for.
Reversion to pre-Rebellion-era allegiances suggested some occasional confusion between Vargr base codes and Imperial base codes, but I manually compared the two starmaps and reverted the listing to AOTI.
I believe Corridor is ready for regeneration.
Robject,
Corridor is an odd case as we really don't know when or how it was generated!
As near as anyone can figure out, the sector first showed up as part of an adventure handout for GenCon and Origins in 1984. No copies of that adventure, Memory Alpha, were saved but the sector information was somehow passed on. (Appropriately, the adventure was later pieced together for the Reprints from memories and a few notes!)
The 1984 date means that whoever generated the Corridor sector generated for MA most likely had access to either AotI or a working draft of AotI. The date also means that the work was done before Genii and Sunbane. Considering the small size of Corridor, the UWPs may have been hand rolled.
That placed Corridor in a 'twilight zone' of sorts. It usually wasn't included in the List of Known Good Sectors; Marches, Rim, Gvurrdon, Hinters, etc., but it didn't quite belong in the Genii/Sunbane trash heap either.
Returning to lurking mode...
Have fun,
Bill
Report for Verge Sunbane
Since Verge is such a small sector, I decided to go ahead and get it out of the way.
Turns out that most of the data is fine. There were two extra worlds inserted, and one naval+scout base that wasn't in AOTI, and some dry worlds that should've been wet, but on the whole the data was sound.
I think Verge is ready for regeneration.
Since Verge is such a small sector, I decided to go ahead and get it out of the way.
Turns out that most of the data is fine. There were two extra worlds inserted, and one naval+scout base that wasn't in AOTI, and some dry worlds that should've been wet, but on the whole the data was sound.
I think Verge is ready for regeneration.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
robject,
Trojan Reaches and Reft have been published. They are both present in the Regency Sourcebook, and I am willing to bet the Sunbane data isn't even close. It is critical that both sectors match the published data first, Sunbane second (or later).
"Fl" worlds are for atmospheres A+. However, that said, I will insist that "Fl" not be used for atmospheres D and E. Both of these atmospheres are special cases of 5/6, and therefore should have water oceans, not fluid oceans. F can be argued either way; I would tend to give them water, too.
So, in summary, "Fl" should only apply to atmospheres A-C.
Trojan Reaches and Reft have been published. They are both present in the Regency Sourcebook, and I am willing to bet the Sunbane data isn't even close. It is critical that both sectors match the published data first, Sunbane second (or later).
"Fl" worlds are for atmospheres A+. However, that said, I will insist that "Fl" not be used for atmospheres D and E. Both of these atmospheres are special cases of 5/6, and therefore should have water oceans, not fluid oceans. F can be argued either way; I would tend to give them water, too.
So, in summary, "Fl" should only apply to atmospheres A-C.
Trojan & Reft: Duly noted. The goal is to match AOTI, not Sunbane. Assuming RS matches AOTI, someone with RS has the interesting job of determining the Second Survey data for said sectors.
I'll comb the sectors for atmospheres D and higher. I doubt they're very common.
And sure enough, there are no atmospheres /DEF/ in any Sunbane sector file that I own. Thus there are no problems.
I'll comb the sectors for atmospheres D and higher. I doubt they're very common.
And sure enough, there are no atmospheres /DEF/ in any Sunbane sector file that I own. Thus there are no problems.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
robject,
Sure, I will go ahead and do the Domain of Deneb. This is only for Imperial worlds, right? If it is for all worlds, I may reconsider some of it.
I have the AotI informatin for Trojan Reaches and Deneb, and I have the Regency Sourcebook. So I can compare those two sectors.
I can tell you there are three or four issues in the Trojan Reaches that will have to have decisions made for. I will get you the list of the conflicts in a few days. (Actually, thinking about it, if Second Survey is only to cover Imperial worlds, it may not be an issue. All of the problems I can think of are outside the Imperial borders.)
I do know there are some D and E worlds in the Domain of Deneb (2 and 1, respectively, IIRC), though they may not be Imperial worlds. (I forget exactly where, but will note them in the list of problems.)
[Sorry for disappearing again. Things got busy.
]
Sure, I will go ahead and do the Domain of Deneb. This is only for Imperial worlds, right? If it is for all worlds, I may reconsider some of it.
I have the AotI informatin for Trojan Reaches and Deneb, and I have the Regency Sourcebook. So I can compare those two sectors.
I can tell you there are three or four issues in the Trojan Reaches that will have to have decisions made for. I will get you the list of the conflicts in a few days. (Actually, thinking about it, if Second Survey is only to cover Imperial worlds, it may not be an issue. All of the problems I can think of are outside the Imperial borders.)
I do know there are some D and E worlds in the Domain of Deneb (2 and 1, respectively, IIRC), though they may not be Imperial worlds. (I forget exactly where, but will note them in the list of problems.)
[Sorry for disappearing again. Things got busy.
]
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Okay, I've gone through Antares and it mostly looks good.
There are about 17 inconsistencies between the Sunbane map and AOTI, mostly wet/dry problems. Only one misplaced and one missing system. I'll post the results later, probably tomorrow.
Not sure about any Gg numbers listed, though.
So once these inconsistencies are straightened out, what are the next steps? Do you run your update script, Rob?
There are about 17 inconsistencies between the Sunbane map and AOTI, mostly wet/dry problems. Only one misplaced and one missing system. I'll post the results later, probably tomorrow.
Not sure about any Gg numbers listed, though.
So once these inconsistencies are straightened out, what are the next steps? Do you run your update script, Rob?
Just to toss 0.02Cr in...
And noting that I wasn't at cons in 1984 (I was 11, cut me some slack!)...
Having spent far too much $$$ recently acquiring issues of the DGP magazines (Travellers' Digest, MegaTraveller Journal), I've done spot comparisons of the "Sunbane" data (purportedly uploaded to GEnie by Joe D. Fugate Sr. of DGP, later hosted on Sunbane as a popular hub FTP site) and the DGP published data.
Where the DGP data is printed (i.e. all of the DOD, Vland, lots of Solomani & Aslan sectors, parts of Corridor, Lishun, Core, etc) the data is an exact match. Anything DGP didn't print (most of the subsectors of Corridor, Lishun, Core, etc) are, of course, unknown quantities.
That tends to indicate that some, perhaps most, perhaps all of the "Sunbane" data was from DGP hands at some point. And this is the same group of warm bodies (Rob Caswell, Joe Fugate, Mike Mikesh, etc) that had their hands in the Hinterworlds (CH #39) and Mendan (CH #49) sectors.
I chalk inconsistencies between AOTI and DGP data to errors in their process: missed cases (e.g. complexity of the wet/dry worlds), programming bugs, changes in process (some sectors were published nearly a decade earlier than others).
DGP and GDW also inherited a lot of data - parts of the Old Expanses were published in FASA's High Passage in 1982. I just spot checked, and it matches AOTI as well.
The current "regenerate everything from AOTI" seems like a reasonable approach given (1) the limbo status of DGP works (despite RS's provisions that the data is usable) and (2) the desire to have everything accountable and match a newer system generation ruleset. But my point is: if we're throwing the Vargr out with the bathwater, let's give the baby a few moments of quiet respect.
Back to your regularly scheduled analysis by Robert.
