Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Or by a bunch of dateless adolescents....
GDW contacted Vallejo's agent once about using one of his paintings on a (non-Traveller) product. The agent said that 2nd, 3rd, or 45th use rights to Vallejo's paintings were all the same: He gets $10,000 (this was in 1989 or so . . . . it has doubtless changed since then). If you want to commission a painting, and he feels like painting what you want, you start talking at $50,000 and rapidly go upward. We decided to go elsewhere for the illustration.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Originally posted by Fritz88:
You're not saying we should judge a book by its cover, are you?!
Heaven forbid. As I a librarian, I know that people judge books by their cover. The blurb is the next thing that sells the book. Lastly, it is the first 10 pages (although we as a profession recommend that people try the first 20). This is what sells books and why artwork and those introductionary fiction pieces are so important.
BTW, Baron, I see nothing really distasteful about the Avalanche Press covers. But I go back cite Challenge covers as examples of fine art... 25, 27, 33, etc.
All these covers are pretty graphics without resorting to graphic depications.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I got np with that sort of Avalanche stuff, but the below is cheesy, and a perfect example of what I am talking about. This makes content secondary with this sort of presentation.
http://www.avalanchepress.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AP&Product_Code=0919&Category_Code=d20
There were more, all about the same.
http://www.avalanchepress.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AP&Product_Code=0919&Category_Code=d20
There were more, all about the same.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
"You mean like the Calvin & Hobbes compendium?
Or, more like this, to keep it down at LBB size?"
A little of both. Softback T5 LBBs with the HD plastic leatherlike covers, acid free heavy clay pages with the gold foil edges. It could be a zipper up case but I like the box idea.
Ideally you could also purchase a laminated map of the Spinward Marches in two large “wallpaper” like sheets. You could then use a dry erase marker to make you own campaign notes. Something 6'x6' would be good. Large enough to place trade routes and expanded notes in each hex.
Ah dreams . . .
Or, more like this, to keep it down at LBB size?"
A little of both. Softback T5 LBBs with the HD plastic leatherlike covers, acid free heavy clay pages with the gold foil edges. It could be a zipper up case but I like the box idea.
Ideally you could also purchase a laminated map of the Spinward Marches in two large “wallpaper” like sheets. You could then use a dry erase marker to make you own campaign notes. Something 6'x6' would be good. Large enough to place trade routes and expanded notes in each hex.
Ah dreams . . .
I was always fond of the depictions of women as done by David R. Deitrick, and Rob Caswell.
Blair Reynolds's work has a good Travller feel to it, as seen in Starlance Publication's "Heroes of Yesterday and Tomorrow."
I have seen new players flip through that and get ideas for Traveller characters, just based off of those drawings.
I really wish I had bid higher on Deitrick's "Traveller Girl" (or whatever the title was) when it went up for sale on eBay many moons ago.
I'm glad the powers-that-were at GDW never went the cheese route.
It made Traveller a "Serious" game. That's what attracted me, and keeps me playing it. It's always had a style.. not always a consistent style, but it's there.
If Traveller ever went the Avalanche press route, I'd be sadly disappointed.
An RPG should stand on the merit of it's rules, and CT did that. T4, also.
Best illustration for Traveller, for me: "The Traveller Book" Cover.
Looking at it, decades later, I still get that "It's 1982, and This is the only book you need to have epic Space Opera Adventure" feeling.
If that was what Marc Miller was seeking in potential fans, he hit it, right there, when he got William H. Keith, Jr. to do that cover.
Blair Reynolds's work has a good Travller feel to it, as seen in Starlance Publication's "Heroes of Yesterday and Tomorrow."
I have seen new players flip through that and get ideas for Traveller characters, just based off of those drawings.
I really wish I had bid higher on Deitrick's "Traveller Girl" (or whatever the title was) when it went up for sale on eBay many moons ago.
I'm glad the powers-that-were at GDW never went the cheese route.
It made Traveller a "Serious" game. That's what attracted me, and keeps me playing it. It's always had a style.. not always a consistent style, but it's there.
If Traveller ever went the Avalanche press route, I'd be sadly disappointed.
An RPG should stand on the merit of it's rules, and CT did that. T4, also.
Best illustration for Traveller, for me: "The Traveller Book" Cover.
Looking at it, decades later, I still get that "It's 1982, and This is the only book you need to have epic Space Opera Adventure" feeling.
If that was what Marc Miller was seeking in potential fans, he hit it, right there, when he got William H. Keith, Jr. to do that cover.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
My favorite Dietrick is the Swordworlder he did for JTAS. I love the gun design.
I perused the website once you mentioned it but I cannot see anything terribly wrong with this. When you are doing a thing on wee folk why just stick to Lucky Charms image. And, if this considered soft ⌧ by some...I wonder what happens any time these people visit a beach in Europe, they must be blinded.
Beauty in all its forms should be enouraged. I thought when you mentioned Soft ⌧ you were thinking the Book of Erotic Fantasy, which more akin to soft ⌧ than anything by Avalanche and I wouldn't want to see Traveller go down route except with for use of live models which I think would be creating a truly innovative SF product that would stand above others because whilst other RPGs use movie/tv stills to create a distinctive Traveller look and hence arm into a small market we have to find new ways to be innovative.
P
Pickles
Guest
Live models, now that would be something ...
Kafka:
The cover art for most of the AP titles (but not all) is risque.
Far too many yanks can't handle risque; give them guns and gore, fine, but anything not positively victorian in coverage makes them squeamish or horny. Sexual repression is normative for non-urban-core americans; it correlates highly with fundamentalist christianity.
The cover art for most of the AP titles (but not all) is risque.
Far too many yanks can't handle risque; give them guns and gore, fine, but anything not positively victorian in coverage makes them squeamish or horny. Sexual repression is normative for non-urban-core americans; it correlates highly with fundamentalist christianity.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I am by no means prudish and I like sex and romance in media when it is done well. When it is honest, and not too predictable dramatically. This AP stuff is gratuitous. Quite geeky...
This sort of stuff to an outsider would promote a not so flattering picture of gamers.
This sort of stuff to an outsider would promote a not so flattering picture of gamers.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I agree with Baron here. If the cover art linked earlier were the only one, you might be right. But, a huge number of their covers are like this. The level of consistency says their aim is to tittilate, not simply "celebrate beauty".
If this game were to only be for us old farts, I wouldn't worry about it. But, (hopefully) this will be sitting on a shelf in stores where the kiddies can get interested in it as well. And, I really wouldn't want that to be the reason all those 13yo are buying it.
If this game were to only be for us old farts, I wouldn't worry about it. But, (hopefully) this will be sitting on a shelf in stores where the kiddies can get interested in it as well. And, I really wouldn't want that to be the reason all those 13yo are buying it.
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Plus there is something to be said for subtle seductiveness. Obvious stuff I find lacking in real depth, and more caters to a certain baseness which this particular hobby could do well in getting rid of.
I hold up the "Scully" model from X-files... Gillian Anderson became a major, unprecedented sex symbol by specifically NOT being sexy. That is Gold, Lords.
Others have tried this too, but I find the results
to be shaky and one-dimensional. Lara Croft comes to mind. The hot, tho sexless, ass kicker. A man with boobs, basically is a common new theme, and it doesn't work. It is not convincing...
I hold up the "Scully" model from X-files... Gillian Anderson became a major, unprecedented sex symbol by specifically NOT being sexy. That is Gold, Lords.
Others have tried this too, but I find the results
to be shaky and one-dimensional. Lara Croft comes to mind. The hot, tho sexless, ass kicker. A man with boobs, basically is a common new theme, and it doesn't work. It is not convincing...
