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T4 gets a bad rap

<rant>Well, in the beginning they were charging 10$ p&h to Canadians then after the 3rd book dropped it, as they could send things for free leaving some us supporting the company with $30 and nothing to show for it.

Some people joined something called Citizens with promises made and never delivered.

Sometimes, they would send people on a pre-payment plan the same book 2 or 3 times and you were forced to send things back at your own expense and you were still charged for the items p&h and they never got around to refund money (only taking credit for further books).

The pre-payment plan never included Fire, Fusion & Steel and when one tried to order it from the website, it was strangely not aviable.

They folded with people left in the lurch with monies never refunded. It took them months to get product out and when it did they would not accept exchanges for botched products ie. pages upside down.

Their site frequently crashed whilst processing an online payment that sometimes resulted in a double payment. They did not keep to a production schedule that they posted creating false expectations.

Communication between designers & fans was almost non-existant, as designers did the heck they liked even if it was in flagant violation of the principles set out in the Vision & Mission statement. </rant>

We now resume regular programming...
 
<rant>Well, in the beginning they were charging 10$ p&h to Canadians then after the 3rd book dropped it, as they could send things for free leaving some us supporting the company with $30 and nothing to show for it.

Some people joined something called Citizens with promises made and never delivered.

Sometimes, they would send people on a pre-payment plan the same book 2 or 3 times and you were forced to send things back at your own expense and you were still charged for the items p&h and they never got around to refund money (only taking credit for further books).

The pre-payment plan never included Fire, Fusion & Steel and when one tried to order it from the website, it was strangely not aviable.

They folded with people left in the lurch with monies never refunded. It took them months to get product out and when it did they would not accept exchanges for botched products ie. pages upside down.

Their site frequently crashed whilst processing an online payment that sometimes resulted in a double payment. They did not keep to a production schedule that they posted creating false expectations.

Communication between designers & fans was almost non-existant, as designers did the heck they liked even if it was in flagant violation of the principles set out in the Vision & Mission statement. </rant>

We now resume regular programming...
 
Hm. I wonder if, a few years down the line, people will look at QLI the same way... time will tell I guess.
 
Hm. I wonder if, a few years down the line, people will look at QLI the same way... time will tell I guess.
 
Isn't this thread getting slightly OT of the OP's question/statement?

Are all threads going to go this way?

I thought we have a thread for this?

Just wondering....
 
Isn't this thread getting slightly OT of the OP's question/statement?

Are all threads going to go this way?

I thought we have a thread for this?

Just wondering....
 
I personally found T4 a well made, illustrated product.

pricey. Geat Art, but cumbersome to use. I have the beginning book, and discovered it was after leafing through it, Milieu 0.

That aside, as a TNE convert, I felt disappointment the storyline went backwards, not forwards..

T4's Pocket Empire's however, was invaluable as a resource material for me, and helped me understand the pocket empires arising in the Post 1124 rebellion and later the period of darkness 1130-1200 when I met MJD.

So My experience with T4 is mixed, overall.

just thought I'd share, had a great game this evening..back to ya'll.
 
I personally found T4 a well made, illustrated product.

pricey. Geat Art, but cumbersome to use. I have the beginning book, and discovered it was after leafing through it, Milieu 0.

That aside, as a TNE convert, I felt disappointment the storyline went backwards, not forwards..

T4's Pocket Empire's however, was invaluable as a resource material for me, and helped me understand the pocket empires arising in the Post 1124 rebellion and later the period of darkness 1130-1200 when I met MJD.

So My experience with T4 is mixed, overall.

just thought I'd share, had a great game this evening..back to ya'll.
 
Yeah, I remember when T4 came out, I was utterly baffled by why it suddenly leapt back a thousand years in time.

I'd been well and truly hooked by TNE, the high quality of its writing and the story therein (and I quite liked the system too, and I thought it made a lot of sense for GDW to use a house system for all its games), and then all of a sudden we were thrown back to the dawn of the 3I, with a completely different game engine and much lower quality writing.

People say they found TNE too jarring, but I found T4's raison d'etre to be pretty much incomprehensible.
 
Yeah, I remember when T4 came out, I was utterly baffled by why it suddenly leapt back a thousand years in time.

I'd been well and truly hooked by TNE, the high quality of its writing and the story therein (and I quite liked the system too, and I thought it made a lot of sense for GDW to use a house system for all its games), and then all of a sudden we were thrown back to the dawn of the 3I, with a completely different game engine and much lower quality writing.

People say they found TNE too jarring, but I found T4's raison d'etre to be pretty much incomprehensible.
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Yeah, I remember when T4 came out, I was utterly baffled by why it suddenly leapt back a thousand years in time.

I'd been well and truly hooked by TNE, the high quality of its writing and the story therein (and I quite liked the system too, and I thought it made a lot of sense for GDW to use a house system for all its games), and then all of a sudden we were thrown back to the dawn of the 3I, with a completely different game engine and much lower quality writing.

People say they found TNE too jarring, but I found T4's raison d'etre to be pretty much incomprehensible.
Click to expand...
I can only reply to this with speculation, and opinion. In the civility of this thread, and by the laws of moderation my take is (after re-reading the first book again) this--

the "starting over" theory, where TNE used the Virus disaster to undo all the rebellion Final war and rebuild, Milieu 0 sought to capture where GDW faltered, and that was give the GM & Players the chance to be there at the outset of the grand 3rd Imperium...(with the dim echoes of the Sylean Federation just fading away).

T4's mechanics harkened back to CT in many ways, and attempted (IMO) to incorporate some of MT's and the other user-freindly chargen rules of the time.

But returning to the beginning after the Long Night, while an intriguing setting, was not what I had expected, simply put, like a Dulinor time-travelled to the past, to view what it was he and Lucan and others serving them had undone..
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Yeah, I remember when T4 came out, I was utterly baffled by why it suddenly leapt back a thousand years in time.

I'd been well and truly hooked by TNE, the high quality of its writing and the story therein (and I quite liked the system too, and I thought it made a lot of sense for GDW to use a house system for all its games), and then all of a sudden we were thrown back to the dawn of the 3I, with a completely different game engine and much lower quality writing.

People say they found TNE too jarring, but I found T4's raison d'etre to be pretty much incomprehensible.
Click to expand...
I can only reply to this with speculation, and opinion. In the civility of this thread, and by the laws of moderation my take is (after re-reading the first book again) this--

the "starting over" theory, where TNE used the Virus disaster to undo all the rebellion Final war and rebuild, Milieu 0 sought to capture where GDW faltered, and that was give the GM & Players the chance to be there at the outset of the grand 3rd Imperium...(with the dim echoes of the Sylean Federation just fading away).

T4's mechanics harkened back to CT in many ways, and attempted (IMO) to incorporate some of MT's and the other user-freindly chargen rules of the time.

But returning to the beginning after the Long Night, while an intriguing setting, was not what I had expected, simply put, like a Dulinor time-travelled to the past, to view what it was he and Lucan and others serving them had undone..
 
I actually prefer T4's return. It was kind of like a retro..I don't know. A different time, and the art seemed to me to be the remnants of the long night.

Overgrown ruins, crowded, dirty spaceports, with some new shiney tech, as things got back to normal.

I like the idea of gaming in different eras of a game universe.

I didn't like TNE or the Virus, but I did respect what they were trying to do. With everything destroyed, only heroes would have the mettle to survive. And they wanted to make the T2K Change from 1.0 to 2.0 to 2.2 complete, so that Twilight players could been enticed, and it was one rules set, with a previously tested combat system.

I have all the books, it's just hard to find players for TNE. T4, somewhat easier, at least, around here.
 
I actually prefer T4's return. It was kind of like a retro..I don't know. A different time, and the art seemed to me to be the remnants of the long night.

Overgrown ruins, crowded, dirty spaceports, with some new shiney tech, as things got back to normal.

I like the idea of gaming in different eras of a game universe.

I didn't like TNE or the Virus, but I did respect what they were trying to do. With everything destroyed, only heroes would have the mettle to survive. And they wanted to make the T2K Change from 1.0 to 2.0 to 2.2 complete, so that Twilight players could been enticed, and it was one rules set, with a previously tested combat system.

I have all the books, it's just hard to find players for TNE. T4, somewhat easier, at least, around here.
 
But, the mechanics of T4, I cannot comment too much on, as when it came out I was still in a White Wolf phase, in which, I suggested that people chose their characters based upon archetypes represented by the class and populate them with a reasonable level of skills based upon their age and probability. The task system, I had always kept from MT and combat from CT. So that only left the chrome of M:0 which as I recall, I could not convey the grandeur of just as I could not convey the utter destruction wrought by the Collapse. Probably just my failings as a Referee, I suppose. So we ended up playing a form of rugged CT throughout the adventures provided.
 
But, the mechanics of T4, I cannot comment too much on, as when it came out I was still in a White Wolf phase, in which, I suggested that people chose their characters based upon archetypes represented by the class and populate them with a reasonable level of skills based upon their age and probability. The task system, I had always kept from MT and combat from CT. So that only left the chrome of M:0 which as I recall, I could not convey the grandeur of just as I could not convey the utter destruction wrought by the Collapse. Probably just my failings as a Referee, I suppose. So we ended up playing a form of rugged CT throughout the adventures provided.
 
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