T4 gets a bad rap

[Commander Drax]

Speaking as someone who has been trying to fix the T4 rule set for the last few years, I really wouldn't advise buying the cd as of yet, unless you want all of the materials for completeness. I mean any other traveller rule set is just so much better, as T4 lacks consistency. I like the Milieu Zero Setting and have used the backdrop with T20, MT and TNE to good effect. The T4 rules are without doubt almost completely broken and not very versatile when compared to all others.

 

[Commander Drax]

Speaking as someone who has been trying to fix the T4 rule set for the last few years, I really wouldn't advise buying the cd as of yet, unless you want all of the materials for completeness. I mean any other traveller rule set is just so much better, as T4 lacks consistency. I like the Milieu Zero Setting and have used the backdrop with T20, MT and TNE to good effect. The T4 rules are without doubt almost completely broken and not very versatile when compared to all others.

 

[marvo]

Have to admit that I have T4 but never really liked it as a GM or Player. The only thing I really liked about it was that it was a 'back to Traveller' compared with TNE, which I really dislike.

And as for the d3 subject. Well there are several companies that make a d3. Most of these are a standard die marked 1-2-3 twice. But if you want you can buy the snazzy Gamescience D3 that looks really cool
Gamescience D3

This dice is also marked with R-P-S, for playing Rock, Paper Scissors.

 

[marvo]

Have to admit that I have T4 but never really liked it as a GM or Player. The only thing I really liked about it was that it was a 'back to Traveller' compared with TNE, which I really dislike.

And as for the d3 subject. Well there are several companies that make a d3. Most of these are a standard die marked 1-2-3 twice. But if you want you can buy the snazzy Gamescience D3 that looks really cool
Gamescience D3

This dice is also marked with R-P-S, for playing Rock, Paper Scissors.

 

[aramis]

I was hopeful when T4 came out.

Nothing in T4 worked well for my group except CG and Psionics. Tasks got thrown out quickly. Combat was poorly worded, and produced unrealistic effects (shotguns come to mind). Ship design was complex and cumbersome.

The production quality was some of the worst I've ever seen, counting early 80's indie games. I can only think of one that was genuinely worse on production and editing: Road Rebels.

M0 was a bad idea. Moving a timeline backwards is almost always a bad thing; in the case of M0, it was worse still because it gave the d-team an excuse to only cover to TL12, making it harder to run the classic (TL10-15) setting.

T4 was rightly lambasted. Having good ideas is NOT equivalent to being a good system. T4 was a bad system with a bunch of good ideas hidden in the supplements. Best psionic rules in any edition. Lots of great CG ideas; many paralleled what I'd done to MT anyway. THe swings and dodge pools are decent ideas. But overall, as a system, it's gems mounted in drekh.

 

[aramis]

I was hopeful when T4 came out.

Nothing in T4 worked well for my group except CG and Psionics. Tasks got thrown out quickly. Combat was poorly worded, and produced unrealistic effects (shotguns come to mind). Ship design was complex and cumbersome.

The production quality was some of the worst I've ever seen, counting early 80's indie games. I can only think of one that was genuinely worse on production and editing: Road Rebels.

M0 was a bad idea. Moving a timeline backwards is almost always a bad thing; in the case of M0, it was worse still because it gave the d-team an excuse to only cover to TL12, making it harder to run the classic (TL10-15) setting.

T4 was rightly lambasted. Having good ideas is NOT equivalent to being a good system. T4 was a bad system with a bunch of good ideas hidden in the supplements. Best psionic rules in any edition. Lots of great CG ideas; many paralleled what I'd done to MT anyway. THe swings and dodge pools are decent ideas. But overall, as a system, it's gems mounted in drekh.

 

[Jeffr0]

When people praise the psi rules, are they talking about the Core Book with the psionicist class, or are they talking about the stuff in Psionic Institutes?

 

[Jeffr0]

When people praise the psi rules, are they talking about the Core Book with the psionicist class, or are they talking about the stuff in Psionic Institutes?

 

[robject]

Both, I think. The core rules were an improvement on the originals, and the book added playable stuff, including some sample 'special skills'.

Which reminds me. There's a drawing in the Psionic Institutes book depicting some protestors, complete with signs. Anyone know what those signs are supposed to be saying? The script looks like it could be alphabetic, and there are repeating groups that look suspiciously like real words.

 

[robject]

Both, I think. The core rules were an improvement on the originals, and the book added playable stuff, including some sample 'special skills'.

Which reminds me. There's a drawing in the Psionic Institutes book depicting some protestors, complete with signs. Anyone know what those signs are supposed to be saying? The script looks like it could be alphabetic, and there are repeating groups that look suspiciously like real words.

 

[aramis]

In my case, the core rules, with the added powers in the Psionics book, but not the stupid rolling for activation rules.

The rules changes in the PsiHB were "for play balance" IIRC. WHAT *ING MORON THINKS PSIONICS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAY-BALANCED?!?!?

Therefore, i don't put those limits in. I have used the different probabilities by school.

 

[aramis]

In my case, the core rules, with the added powers in the Psionics book, but not the stupid rolling for activation rules.

The rules changes in the PsiHB were "for play balance" IIRC. WHAT *ING MORON THINKS PSIONICS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAY-BALANCED?!?!?

Therefore, i don't put those limits in. I have used the different probabilities by school.

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by robject:

Which reminds me. There's a drawing in the Psionic Institutes book depicting some protestors, complete with signs. Anyone know what those signs are supposed to be saying? The script looks like it could be alphabetic, and there are repeating groups that look suspiciously like real words.

All Your Neurons Belong To Us

 

[Gadrin]

Originally posted by robject:

Which reminds me. There's a drawing in the Psionic Institutes book depicting some protestors, complete with signs. Anyone know what those signs are supposed to be saying? The script looks like it could be alphabetic, and there are repeating groups that look suspiciously like real words.

All Your Neurons Belong To Us

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Aramis:
In my case, the core rules, with the added powers in the Psionics book, but not the stupid rolling for activation rules.

Compare the psioncs rules in CT to those in T4.

What are the major differences?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Aramis:
In my case, the core rules, with the added powers in the Psionics book, but not the stupid rolling for activation rules.

Compare the psioncs rules in CT to those in T4.

What are the major differences?

 

[Psion]

Wow... this is an old thread. Wonders that I missed it.

But I see that an attitude pretty close to mine has already been expressed by Aramis. I really do not like dice pool systems and regret to see that T5 will be going a similar route to T4 on this score. AFAIAC, MegaTraveller had the best task systems for Traveller (though T20, being pretty close is philosophy, is also good.)

The chargen in T4 actually looked pretty cleaned up and usable, and unlike some, I really like the Chris Foss art. I've liked his stuff since the old Terran Trade Authority books, and think the hard-edged industrial feel fits Traveller perfectly.

I also found some of the material painfully out of sync with the conventions of the Traveller universe.

 

[Psion]

Wow... this is an old thread. Wonders that I missed it.

But I see that an attitude pretty close to mine has already been expressed by Aramis. I really do not like dice pool systems and regret to see that T5 will be going a similar route to T4 on this score. AFAIAC, MegaTraveller had the best task systems for Traveller (though T20, being pretty close is philosophy, is also good.)

The chargen in T4 actually looked pretty cleaned up and usable, and unlike some, I really like the Chris Foss art. I've liked his stuff since the old Terran Trade Authority books, and think the hard-edged industrial feel fits Traveller perfectly.

I also found some of the material painfully out of sync with the conventions of the Traveller universe.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Psion:
AFAIAC, MegaTraveller had the best task systems for Traveller (though T20, being pretty close is philosophy, is also good.)

Hey...what about the UGM?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Psion:
AFAIAC, MegaTraveller had the best task systems for Traveller (though T20, being pretty close is philosophy, is also good.)

Hey...what about the UGM?