Ship Designations for STL ships?

[Tellon]

I am curious; cause in the OTU -- a non-jump capable warship is usually called an SDB -- which is usually very tough/armored and capable in a fight -- most are 400 dTons -- but 5000 dTon SDB's have been built --

so --

What do I do for MTU which is non jump-capable -- THUS, every warship is an SDB? Since at this point -- it's large #'s of missiles & N-PAW's with sandcasters for defense (there are a few who use Lasers/Plasma to augment thier N-Paws)

or would I use the standard, FF, DD, DE, CL, Cru, HCru, BC, BB series for warships?

and --

since in MTU -- it's "low" teach level -- thus, smaller ships are built -- so a 5000 dTon ship is pretty much a monster..since I am dealing with planetary economics -- instead of an imperium -- so cost of a ship is just as important -- so would a world build a large series of Patrol frigates (PF's), or several CL's or 1 BC?

 

[BlackBat242]

SDB = System Defense Boat... an non-jump-capable ship designed to stay in-system and defend it from jump-capable ships from outside.

If there are no jump-capable ships, then there is nothing to require a different designation of type based on non-jump-capability, right?

Thus, the normal labels of type/mission/size will be in force.

 

[Tellon]

Cool, thx -- I figured it was a strange question -- but I wanted to ask.

 

[rancke]

since in MTU -- it's "low" teach level -- thus, smaller ships are built -- so a 5000 dTon ship is pretty much a monster..since I am dealing with planetary economics -- instead of an imperium -- so cost of a ship is just as important -- so would a world build a large series of Patrol frigates (PF's), or several CL's or 1 BC?

If by planetary economy you mean a world with billions of people, such a world would be able to afford thousands of 5000T warships (About 1000 per billion people, depending on the exact tech level).


Hans

 

[aramis]

If by planetary economy you mean a world with billions of people, such a world would be able to afford thousands of 5000T warships (About 1000 per billion people, depending on the exact tech level).


Hans

But it doesn't guarantee they will have the political will to build more than a handful.

We have the wherewithal to build a fleet of leo stations and then some right now; we, as a planet, lack the political will to do much more than put telecommunications and weather satellites up. We very well could have had a stanford torus up by 2001... but we absolutely lack the political will.

Plus, for multi-G capable ships, 5000Td might in fact be the upper size range. we don't know the details, but we do know that structual strength doesn't scale as fast as mass does as ships increase in size.

 

[rancke]

But it doesn't guarantee they will have the political will to build more than a handful.

No, of course not. Nor did I factor in any spending on the army. I said such a world could afford it. Whether it would want to obviously depends on the political situation. If it's the only world in the neighborhood, it might not want to buy a single one. If it's engaged in a life or death fight, it might want to buy five times as many (my guesstimate was based on a naval spending of 3% of the guesstimated GWP -- a society at war can sustain 15% of GWP for a while).

We have the wherewithal to build a fleet of leo stations and then some right now; we, as a planet, lack the political will to do much more than put telecommunications and weather satellites up. We very well could have had a stanford torus up by 2001... but we absolutely lack the political will.

Actually, there's a lot of will that goes towards preventing other nations from building such a fleet. Not that I disagree with you in principle.

Plus, for multi-G capable ships, 5000Td might in fact be the upper size range. we don't know the details, but we do know that structual strength doesn't scale as fast as mass does as ships increase in size.

The OP indicated that 5000T ships were an option.


Hans

 

[Tellon]

ok, cool -- thx guys -- that was an important tidbit ..1000 dTons/Billion pop

As far as the planet in question: B877ADE-A Hi, Ind

so with 50 Billion people -- that is around 50,000 dTons -- and for any fleet -- there are only a few capital ships and many small support ships .. so maybe a 4x series of 5000dTon beasts.

The political will huh? Most of the ships will be state-run merchants -- importing raw materials and exporting manufactured goods; and importing agricultural products ... Standard for a Hi, Ind planet in Trav. The politics keep the population down planet-side -- while there is a huge undertow to get out and away to "better" areas .. so the politicians might build a 5000 DTon merchant; while a corporation might build a 400 dTon "merchant" to smuggle goods & people on and off planet (for a good profit)

Due to the atmospheric taint -- the land forces are smaller -- which of course means they are spread thin, which means police, mercs, intel and robotic forces have a distinct hand in how the govt handles the population. So it's a tense situation.

 

[rancke]

ok, cool -- thx guys -- that was an important tidbit ..1000 dTons/Billion pop

No, no, no. One billion people can afford to support a fleet of one thousand 5000T warships if they expend roughly 3% of their Gross World Product on maintaining them. Whether they would want to is another question.

That would be 5,000,000 dTons/billion pop. A small ship universe does not imply a few ship universe. The smaller the ships, the more you get for the same amount of money.

As far as the planet in question: B877ADE-A Hi, Ind

so with 50 Billion people -- that is around 50,000 dTons -- and for any fleet -- there are only a few capital ships and many small support ships .. so maybe a 4x series of 5000dTon beasts.

50 billion people can afford 70,000 of those 5000T ships. (The extra 20,000 is from the Industrial classification; that adds 40% to the GWP).

Note that this is warships, paid for by taxes. Merchant shipping is a completely separate issue, unless the trade is enough to bring in significant amount of money.


Hans

 

[Tellon]

No, no, no. One billion people can afford to support a fleet of one thousand 5000T warships if they expend roughly 3% of their Gross World Product on maintaining them. Whether they would want to is another question.

That would be 5,000,000 dTons/billion pop. A small ship universe does not imply a few ship universe. The smaller the ships, the more you get for the same amount of money.



50 billion people can afford 70,000 of those 5000T ships. (The extra 20,000 is from the Industrial classification; that adds 40% to the GWP).

Note that this is warships, paid for by taxes. Merchant shipping is a completely separate issue, unless the trade is enough to bring in significant amount of money.


Hans

Oh wow -- That is a hell of a lot -- thx for explaining that ..

As far as Trade -- the Far Companion is a B444556-C Ag,Ni . So the 2 worlds do a lot of trading -- Inductrial goods for agricultural goods .. so large merchant ships escorted by small DD's or DE's (to keep away pirates) are often seen (think of convoys)

So does the Ni imply a -40% to production; where the Ind signifies a +40% production capacity?

 

[boomslang]

That would be 5,000,000 dTons/billion pop. A small ship universe does not imply a few ship universe. The smaller the ships, the more you get for the same amount of money.

Indeed; it is perhaps ironic that an SSTU may be informed by the pilots-per-capita limits introduced in BSTU TCS -- the real practical limit on SSTU planetary navy size may well be the availability of qualified spaceship drivers, not the tax base and/or rate...

 

[BlackBat242]

The Royal Australian Navy has 6 fairly-new advanced non-nuclear submarines (Collins class)... but can muster only enough crews for 4 of them, due to recruiting/retention issues.

In practice, they only have functional crews for 3, as one crew is always in the process of recovering/retraining after a deployment (and training personnel newly-assigned to subs).

Normally, one of the 6 subs is in refit, and three are actively training or deploying... the remaining two are in "reduced readiness", and are used by the "rump crew" for training, etc (and for spares for the active ships, due to budget issues).

This in a navy that is simultaneously building 3 new state-of-the-art guided-missile destroyers and two large amphibious assault ships (see Hobart class AWD & Canberra-class LHD)

 

[sabredog]

SDB's are generally smaller than what a lot of people would consider a "warship", but they get the job done, are cheap, and plentiful.

"Monitors" are part of the OTU - at least back in the days of FFW and Imperium, they are non-jump capable and are just big warships to protect systems or orbit over worlds. IMTU I take older, not quite ready to scrap jump capable warships like cruisers and battelships and take out the jump drives to recycle them as in-system monitors or defense ships.

Remember, too, "boat" in Traveller can have two meanings just like today - it can be a small craft carried on a "ship", or it can be a ship in it's own right, but just be called a boat to satisfy tradition (like the submarine thing - they are called boats even though they are often more heavily armed and capable than a lot of ships - but the dividing line is mainly this: can the "ship" carry boats? If not, then it's a boat, too, regardless of size.)

When I design and designate a non-jump warship that is a new class built for the purpose I always informally call them "boats" for tradition's sake. I also have certain service distinctions in the Navy to cover this - like Lt's and Commanders get "boats, but only Captains and above get "ships". This means you could have a Commander in charge of a 10kt in-system destroyer, while a superior in rank and time Captain might be commanding a 5000 ton jump-capable escort.

 

[Tellon]

hmm, ok -- so I could have a good # of ships -- some will be front-line combat, while others (due to crew size) will be relagated to training or spare-parts .. Also and of course -- older ships will be relegated to training or reserve status ..

for size -- TL 9/A would be front-line I would think - while any boat/ship of say TL 7/8 will be reserve status; due to TL concerns also smaller -- say 500 dTons vs 5000 dTons for TL 9/A+

so an older ship (TL 8) -- even though 500 dTons would have been a real warship (back then), but now at TL A, would not even be considered realistically escort-capable ...

And also -- say using Nuclear Pulse Rkt or Ion Drive vs Fusion Rkt -- or Fission Engine vs Fusion; The technology is vastly different and thus the TL A stuff vrs the TL 8 stuff -- it's no contest.