No more Imperium...

[jackleg]

I have been going thru some of my old Traveller material and also looked thru a lot of the reprints at a flgs. The setting of the Imperium has been done to death. I was looking at old letters people wrote to GDW in the TAS journals, asking them to spell out every little thing in the 3rd Imperium. From the codes on the planets to how to write up an air processing plants.

Maybe for T5, another setting could be used. Maybe for once the system could be used for something else. I really think that too much information was put out for the 3I and nothing for anything else. For example, TSR has had these settings for AD&D, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Eberron, Dragon Lance, and a few others. Maybe GDW might have lasted longer if other settings for Traveller could have been developed and maintained.

I am not saying I dislike 3I, but other settings could have been offered also.

What do you think?

 

[jfetters]

For the most part, I agree.

I think that "official" variant universes would have been great, especially if they could have been tied into a commercial property (B5, Firefly, stuff like that). The hurdle there, of course, is licensing.

Although alternate settings wouldn't have to be limited to official property.

A sourcebook that outlines the variations of the universe and its culture would have been great (B5 using stargates instead of Jump Drives, for example).

But my issue with the Imperium, at least as it stands in the OTU, is that it is too damn big and too damn boring/static (pre-Rebellion, that is). If a player in the Marches wants to visit Terra using his existing character, you have to play something to the effect of the DGP voyages in order to do it right. And all the characters age a few years in the process.

The more this kind of subject comes up, the more likely I am to just make my own damn environment when/if T5 shows up.

 

[mike wightman]

I'd rather T5 went back to encouraging people to design their own settings too

The Imperium OTU could still be there for those without the time to put together their own settings...

 

[eodell]

I like the Imperial setting, but I wouldn't mind seeing some others. It's always worth bearing in mind that in the beginning, Traveller didn't come with a setting. The Third Imperium came from players requesting a setting from GDW. Evidently, it was sufficiently well-received and Marc and company saw no need for alternate settings. GDW was never as large as TSR or WotC, so concentrating on a single milieu probably had as much to do with limited resources as anything else.

The failure of GDW, as I understand it, was driven by a lot of different factors, including a general slump in RPG sales industrywide. Hard SF is now and always has been a relatively small niche in the SF world, too, in addition to which GDW products have largely been written by gearheads for gearheads, which is an even smaller sub-niche. Looking at the sales figures for the original little black books that Marc included in the CT reprints, it's amazing that GDW was able to remain operational for as long as it did.

IMHO, the real failure is on the part of third party designers. There's no reason an enterprising group of designers couldn't have produced an alternate setting. It's a lot of work, and there is some risk involved in abandoning a successful formula like the 3I, but it could be done.

 

[eodell]

A sourcebook that outlines the variations of the universe and its culture would have been great (B5 using stargates instead of Jump Drives, for example).

FF&S -- the TNE version, not the T4 version -- does at least offer a lot of technological alternatives that make it easier to adapt Traveller to other SF settings, including stargates, subspace and warp drives, and so on. It's not too hard to retrofit them to High Guard if you prefer the simpler CT ship design rules (and I do).

But my issue with the Imperium, at least as it stands in the OTU, is that it is too damn big and too damn boring/static (pre-Rebellion, that is).

For the most part, I agree. There are only three human states of any size -- the Imperium, the Solomani Confederation, and the Zhodani Consulate -- and they are all freaking huge. I'd like to see many smaller states and more independent worlds that aren't backwaters, something more like the European middle ages writ large.

The more this kind of subject comes up, the more likely I am to just make my own damn environment when/if T5 shows up.

I can't wait that long; I'm working on one now.

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by Eric O'Dell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />A sourcebook that outlines the variations of the universe and its culture would have been great (B5 using stargates instead of Jump Drives, for example).

FF&S -- the TNE version, not the T4 version -- does at least offer a lot of technological alternatives that make it easier to adapt Traveller to other SF settings, including stargates, subspace and warp drives, and so on. It's not too hard to retrofit them to High Guard if you prefer the simpler CT ship design rules (and I do).

I think most of this alternative type of technology would be covered a sourcebook that either covered the Ancients or the Far, Far, Far Future where Marc eludes that Heat Death of the Universe is the ultimate adventure. Given the fantastic range of technology that would only appear as magic to the rest of us.

I suppose one could always dig out a D&D rulebook (like Immortals) and adapt everything there into Traveller. Making different continents different kilosectors to do the same thing.

The more this kind of subject comes up, the more likely I am to just make my own damn environment when/if T5 shows up.

I can't wait that long; I'm working on one now. [/qb]</font>[/QUOTE]A different universe than the Imperium seems to be the default setting for the T5 rulebook, if you look at the contents it cites something called Faraway Sector or something like that. Clearly, Marc wants to go the lego approach, so as not alienate anyone. However, contra, to Rob Prior, I think, T20 goes a long way in making a background without an Imperium doable.

 

[Michael Schulz]

I am a total Imperium Prime guy, myself. I think there should be an Imperium setting for Traveller, but that it should be a new and improved Traveller Universe (NITU?). Have an Imperium, maybe even a third Imperium, but don't make at as huge, toss in a few more scattered little states, and have some fun.

Then we also get to enjoy the, hopefully, organic creation of a new interstellar history, some land grabs, and endless fan speculation about things like exactly what life in the Gateway Coalition is like, what the second civil war was, and what the Vegan Alliance is up to.

A scaled back Imperium freed from the fetters of canon could have more details on the major mega-corps, the nobility, the intrigue, the difficulties facing free traders, and Naval interdictions. Anywho, that's what gets my vote!

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Eric O'Dell:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />A sourcebook that outlines the variations of the universe and its culture would have been great (B5 using stargates instead of Jump Drives, for example).

FF&S -- the TNE version, not the T4 version -- does at least offer a lot of technological alternatives that make it easier to adapt Traveller to other SF settings, including stargates, subspace and warp drives, and so on. It's not too hard to retrofit them to High Guard if you prefer the simpler CT ship design rules (and I do).</font>[/QUOTE]TNE FF&S is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that post. I always thought B5 would have been a great Traveller adaptation. Except for the PPC handgun thing.

One of the best things about the TNE structure was its adaptability. Unfortunately, it never got the chance to show it off.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Cad Lad:

...A scaled back Imperium freed from the fetters of canon ...

I beg your pardon!

 

[Michael Schulz]

Only so that we can build a new canon around our glorious new Imperium (and it's neighbors). I just dig the blank slate combined with liberal borrowing that a NITU could provide. Besides, it would be great to get in on the ground floor and watch a new canon develop! Even if some smart @$$ kid will come along and destroy my precious universe a couple of decades later...

 

[parmasson]

Have alook again at the amount of people who make up their own maps . . .
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=33;t=000116

 

[Michael Schulz]

Originally posted by Jim Fetters:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Cad Lad:

...A scaled back Imperium freed from the fetters of canon ...

I beg your pardon! </font>[/QUOTE]Ohhh, now I get it...busy and hard work day (honest).

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Kurega Gikur:
Have alook again at the amount of people who make up their own maps . . .

100% home made maps here. Although I'm certain to buy T5, for me the commercially provided settings are more for inspiration than actual use. Hence I would very much like to see B5, e.g., inspired maps.

 

[jfetters]

Originally posted by Cad Lad:
Ohhh, now I get it...busy and hard work day (honest).

Ah, no worries. I know how it can be.

But I like it! I may actually change my screen name to that!

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I'd rather T5 went back to encouraging people to design their own settings too

The Imperium OTU could still be there for those without the time to put together their own settings...

Agreed.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I always thought that Traveller should focus on the major worlds of Charted Space and not the little piddly backwater ones. Traveller was geared towards merchant play and that meant going from little world to little world. If they made a grand adventure that spanned the Imperium and even it's outer edges then they could go from major world to major world and not have to worry about detailing all the little worlds out there. MT tried to hit on this a little, but it didn't get the players involved enough for me. Make an Epic Campaign that involves all the major important figures in Charted Space and you shouldn't have to worry about it feeling old.

Just my .02Cr

Dameon

 

[aramis]

I've been rooting for an "Imperium Prime" for a few years now...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by jackleg:
The setting of the Imperium has been done to death.

I completely disagree. There are millions of potential adventures to be run in the Traveller Universe. Any world with a decent population and a few thousand years of history could provide dozens of nifty settings. And there are tens of thousands of worlds in Charted Space. I don't think there's a single world like that that has been described in that kind of detail yet.

Or just sticking to a single timeframe, there are only a couple of subsectors described in what I consider adequate detail to support a campaign that involves travel between the stars. As for single systems, I don't think there are any other than Tarsus and Bowman.

Personally I place most of my stuff in the Duchy of Regina, and I'm not running out of material any time soon.


Hans

 

[robject]

I'm a little of each opinion, here. I find plenty of sketchy information in the Spinward Marches -- enough data in broad strokes, and some work required of me to flesh it out for my particular campaign.

I like the Proto-Traveller concept: a small pocket empire with lots of unexplored space on all sides. But it's "easy" to create a small polity on my own, or borrow someone else's.

When I want a Big Empire, I simply use the Imperium.

 

[hirch duckfinder]

Originally posted by rancke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by jackleg:
The setting of the Imperium has been done to death.

I completely disagree. There are millions of potential adventures to be run in the Traveller Universe. Any world with a decent population and a few thousand years of history could provide dozens of nifty settings. And there are tens of thousands of worlds in Charted Space. I don't think there's a single world like that that has been described in that kind of detail yet.


Or just sticking to a single timeframe, there are only a couple of subsectors described in what I consider adequate detail to support a campaign that involves travel between the stars. As for single systems, I don't think there are any other than Tarsus and Bowman.

Personally I place most of my stuff in the Duchy of Regina, and I'm not running out of material any time soon.


Hans </font>[/QUOTE]I'm with you. For me the detailed setting is what makes traveller. A rule set is just a mechanic, I can make those up easilly enough if I need to, or use one of the many good ones out there. However, a setting as detailed as the imperium with nearly thirty years development is an incredible asset. I can pick and choose what I would like to use and change things as I please.

In fact I'm sure that the many (confusing for a newb??) rules systems for traveller cannot be the reason the game has survived so long. The systems range from ok to good but are not superior to other good systems out there (hero, brp, etc). So what remains which makes traveller survive? In my opinion, it's the setting.

It's huge, how can anyone use it up?