LBB Vehicles

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fritz88:

I would stay as far away as possible from LBB8 for a vehicle design system - I am finding it very hard to design a robot with the thing, much less a vehicle.

LOL. I couldn't agree more! </font>[/QUOTE]On a final thought, me too - though LBB8 COULD be used for material-scavanging and combat table-stealing for our more efficient LBB2-style system.

 

[Piper]

The system has a lot more in common with Car Wars than LBB 8. (thanks Jeffr0!)
It's more like a shopping cart than a design sequence.

Maksim-Smelchak: I've heard of Striker III but I don't know anything about it. It's intended to be a fairly large-scale system, isn't it?

 

[Jame]

My question is whether a Book 2 vehicle such as an air/raft would be a certain number - here, 4 -of displacement tons (which would make the air/raft weigh 20 straight-tons), or that same number of straight-tons.

 

[Piper]

In the best (worst?) LBB traditions, I'm ignoring mass almost entirely.

Vehicles are rated in spaces. 4 spaces equal 1 Dton for calculating volume as cargo.

My air/raft is 16 spaces and can carry 4 passengers and 4000kg of cargo. It will fit into a 4 Dton space on a ship.

MT and Striker already offer comprehensive design systems that track volume, mass and cost. Rather than redo that, I opted for a (I hope) simpler approach, more like Book 2 ship design.

If I get a chance tonight, I'll post a few sample designs.

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

Originally posted by Piper:
Maksim-Smelchak: I've heard of Striker III but I don't know anything about it. It's intended to be a fairly large-scale system, isn't it?

Hi Piper,

I'll get you a link.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ct-striker/

Tell the owner, Matthew, that I said hi. He's a good guy.

Striker-III is a work-in-progress, but it's set up to so everything from fire team skirmishes to strategic warfare.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[jappel]

Originally posted by Piper:
The system is intended to produce vehicles compatible with Books 3 and 4 and works as far as that goes: the designs I tested match Book 3 quite well. Also, armor values and (ultimately) weapon penetration will be compatible with MT and Striker allowing for a quick design to be produced for those games, if desired.

This is a very simple system. In fact, that's why I'm releasing it early. I'd like to get an idea if this level of abstraction is adequate for most players. If it's too simple, or headed in the wrong direction, I'd like to know before too much work goes into it.

I for one like this idea. Like Employee, I've got the other resources and design sequences, but I lack time to play with them. Nothing wrong with a quick & dirty modular system for those who don't have the time or motivation to gearhead.

PM inbound.

- John

 

[robject]

I played with his system a little bit and agree that the abstraction pays dividends. Actually, I tried to build a 20 ton launch with it, and found that all that was required was (mainly) a table for small spacecraft -- a combo maneuver+power module.

The basis for this is (roughly) the drives in small craft in CT, with advice from the Type A maneuver and power plant.

And blatant stealing from The Oz's post here .

Combo maneuver drives are less efficient and powerful than the bulky, separated drive systems.

Also, I'm setting the lower bound on combo drives at 80 spaces, and the upper bound at 640 spaces. I'm also only allowing eight standard drives, which more than covers the basic types of small craft we see in Traveller.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Vol is in Spaces
Fuel is in Spaces per week

Drive Combo Spaces-Thrust Vol Fuel MCr
c1 80 5 1 4.5
c2 160 10 2 7.0
c3 240 13 2 8.5
c4 320 15 2 9.5
c5 400 16 2 10.0
c6 480 20 3 12.0
c7 560 23 3 13.5
c8 640 26 4 15.0

Formulae:
(tt = tons thrust)

m-vol(tons) = tt/50

p-vol(tons) to 59 tt = tt/25
p-vol(tons) to 79 tt = tt/30
p-vol(tons) to 99 tt = tt/40
p-vol(tons) 100 tt+ = tt/50

(side note: EP = tt/50)

fuel = p-vol/4

price = 2+2*total vol(tons)
or
price = 2+total vol(spaces)/2, rounded slightly</pre>[/QUOTE]I'd also assume that passenger and cargo craft 10 tons and up would have a "bridge", consuming 20% of the volume, with crew stations calculated backwards from that.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Cost per Space
Hull Cr 10,000
Fuel scoops Cr 100,000
Bridge Cr 50,000</pre>[/QUOTE]And here's a Book 2-style drive table.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Performance Table - Hull x Drive

Volume c1 c2 c3 c4 c5 c6 c7 c8
20 4 6
40 2 4 6
60 1 2 4 5 6
80 1 2 3 4 5 6
100 1 2 3 4 4 5 6
120 1 2 2 3 4 4 5
160 1 1 2 2 3 3 4
200 1 1 2 2 2 3
240 1 1 1 2 2 2
320 1 1 1 1 2
380 1 1 1 1

For greater acceleration requirements,
consult Book 2 for M-Drive and Power
Plant requirements.</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

So a 20-ton launch would work out like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Hull 80 spaces MCr 0.8
c1 combo (1G) 5 spaces MCr 4.5
Fuel 2 spaces 1 week duration
Fuel scoops 1 space MCr 0.1
Cargo 40 spaces
Bridge (2xa) 16 spaces MCr 0.8
Passengers (8xa) 16 spaces

Total: MCr 6.2</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

And a 10-ton lifeboat would work out like:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Hull 40 spaces MCr 0.4
c1 combo (2G) 5 spaces MCr 4.5
Fuel 2 spaces 1 week duration
Fuel scoops 1 space MCr 0.1
Bridge (1xa) 8 spaces MCr 0.4
Passengers (10xa) 20 spaces
Cargo 4 spaces

Total: MCr 5.4</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

A Gig would look like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Hull 80 spaces MCr 0.8
c6 combo (6G) 20 spaces MCr 12.0
Fuel 3 spaces 1 week duration
Fuel scoops 1 space MCr 0.1
Bridge (2xa) 16 spaces MCr 0.8
Passengers (8xa) 16 spaces
ELBx3 6 spaces
Hardpoint 4 spaces MCr 0.1
Turret-LMS - MCr 3.0
Cargo 14 spaces

Total: MCr 16.8</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by robject:
A Gig would look like this:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Hull 80 spaces MCr 0.8
c6 combo (6G) 20 spaces MCr 12.0
Fuel 3 spaces 1 week duration
Fuel scoops 1 space MCr 0.1
Bridge (2xa) 16 spaces MCr 0.8
Passengers (8xa) 16 spaces
ELBx3 6 spaces
Hardpoint 4 spaces MCr 0.1
Turret-LMS 12 spaces MCr 3.0
Cargo 2 spaces

Total: MCr 16.8</pre>

(Doesn't a turret require 3 tons of space?) [/quote]Not in CT

In TNE and T4 a turret socket was 3t, but in most other versions all that is required to fit a turret is 1t of fire control - the turret itself doesn't require any space

By the way, this vehicle design system looks interesting, I've some how missed it...

 

[Piper]

Air/raft:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Body <16> spaces -
Std. a-grav 2 spaces Cr200k
Fusion 1 spaces Cr400k, 1 mo. duration
Driver 2 spaces -
3x passengers 3 spaces -
Cargo 4 tons 8 spaces

Total: Cr600k</pre>[/QUOTE]Wheeled ATV:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Body <40> spaces -
Std. wheels 10 spaces Cr10k
Std. Power 5 spaces Cr5k
Ext. duration 2 spaces - 1 week
Driver 2 spaces -
7x passengers 7 spaces -
Ext. Accomm. 9 spaces - basic life supp.
Armor value 5 3 spaces Cr15k
2 spaces reserved for weaponry.
Total: Cr30k</pre>[/QUOTE]Errata notice: standard wheel and standard anti-grav are reversed on the Drive table.

 

[robject]

Gig corrected -- it now has 14 spaces of cargo. Might have to up the volume for the drives a bit. Maybe.

Sigg, this has ideas adapted to Piper's system, stolen from The Oz, who stole ideas from Ken Pick. The spacecraft bits can use dtons directly without much pain.

Piper, I've done my best to make sure the numbers are reasonably consistent with Book 2. I don't think I can twist them around much more without breaking them.

 

[Piper]

robject; go for it!

I hadn't considered using this for small craft, but your numbers look good. I'd be very interested in combining your work with mine for a total design system.

I think I've got the numbers doped out to generate COACC-compatible helicopters.

More to follow.

 

[Berg]

Spreadsheets...Generators...Pdf's...

 

[robject]

Hey Berg, I know whatcha mean. For the moment, you can look at my proto-spreadsheet.

http://eaglestone.pocketempires.com/tools/Small_Craft_Design.xls

 

[Berg]

Cool

Which design rules is this based on?
Forum link? Thanks

Goods stuff here, as Striker is fun but labourious...

 

[robject]

Berg, this is pretty much Book 2-based.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by robject:
Sigg, this has ideas adapted to Piper's system, stolen from The Oz, who stole ideas from Ken Pick. The spacecraft bits can use dtons directly without much pain.

Stolen??? Inspired by is a much nicer way to put it

I like it, it's simple, fast and does the job. And I can aways FF&S new units e.g. HEPlaR, EW pods etc.

 

[robject]

Sigg: New Thread Warning -- Classic Traveller -- Book 2 Small Craft Design.