CT Only: The overwhelming utility of grav vehicles

[Condottiere]

Teleporters were a cost saving sleight of hand., for the Sixties.

Probably, still is.

Time saving, if it allows you to concentrate on the plot.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Teleporters were a cost saving sleight of hand., for the Sixties.

Probably, still is.

Time saving, if it allows you to concentrate on the plot.

Absolutely. You've got about 45 minutes available per episode, excluding the commercials. Even if you cut out everyone putting their seat belts and stowing their seat trays, you've still got half a minute of exterior practical effects in each direction (and often not re-useable ones, either). Costly, finicky, and takes time that could be used for advancing the plot. Teleporting just takes having a dedicated set for the transporter room and some quick low-tech VFX, and you can get your main cast members down to a planet in maybe 15 seconds of screen time.

 

[Marcatlas]

Since leaving uni I've only played games with government employees and servicemen, the amount of complaints I've gotten over the years about why x, y or z wouldn't be possible or would be tactically unsound makes me want to cry.

I had a civil servant once use a white paper to win an argument at the table...

I used to play table top war games like Squad Leader. The guy who introduced us to the games was an Army officer. He was hard to beat when playing.

 

[Marcatlas]

Absolutely. You've got about 45 minutes available per episode, excluding the commercials.

A funny thing. in the 60's a one hour show on TV had ~54 minutes of show. By the eighties less than 45. Just something I thought of.

 

[Condottiere]

I don't have personal experience of this, but I heard a report where Friends got sped up.

 

[Badenov]

Teleporters were a cost saving sleight of hand., for the Sixties.

Probably, still is.

Time saving, if it allows you to concentrate on the plot.

And keep in mind, any time transporters would have solved a plot too easily, they weren't working.

 

[atpollard]

I had a civil servant once use a white paper to win an argument at the table...

Within a Bureaucracy, a memo from the Department Head stating "Office Policy" beats a White Paper.
[... so you just need to type up a memo and have the GM sign it.]

[As a permit "getter", I fight [reconcile differences of opinion with] civil service bureaucracies on a daily basis.]

 

[Badenov]

Within a Bureaucracy, a memo from the Department Head stating "Office Policy" beats a White Paper.
[... so you just need to type up a memo and have the GM sign it.]

[As a permit "getter", I fight [reconcile differences of opinion with] civil service bureaucracies on a daily basis.]

I have had mixed success with Civil Service Bureaucrats. There were some who refused to back down on issues no matter what, and with no clear benefit to anyone and some expense to the gov itself. My personal guess is that they are standing by bad decisions made in the past so they don't have to admit the pervious decisions caused problems.

 

[chipla]

Within a Bureaucracy, a memo from the Department Head stating "Office Policy" beats a White Paper.
[... so you just need to type up a memo and have the GM sign it.]

[As a permit "getter", I fight [reconcile differences of opinion with] civil service bureaucracies on a daily basis.]

I work for the Korean gov helping them ‘coordinate effectively with English speaking shareholders’ aka I teach English to squadies and civil servants so they can talk to yanks better.

Part of my job is ‘reconciling differences between state organisers’ so I feel your pain.

I have had mixed success with Civil Service Bureaucrats. There were some who refused to back down on issues no matter what, and with no clear benefit to anyone and some expense to the gov itself. My personal guess is that they are standing by bad decisions made in the past so they don't have to admit the pervious decisions caused problems.

As someone who is basically a civil service bureaucrat and has only worked for governments since I turned 18 I can confirm that this is indeed the case.

Also civil service inertia is 100% a thing. It was good enough for the last administration it’s good enough for this one…

 

[atpollard]

I have had mixed success with Civil Service Bureaucrats. There were some who refused to back down on issues no matter what, and with no clear benefit to anyone and some expense to the gov itself. My personal guess is that they are standing by bad decisions made in the past so they don't have to admit the pervious decisions caused problems.

Usually it isn't MALICE. It is someone at the bottom of the totem pole with a CHECKLIST of how things are done and no desire to get in trouble "again" for deviating from the official checklist [no matter how little it applies in this case]. I fill in LOTS of forms with Not Applicable when answering questions about the impact of my parking lot on the demand for Local Schools, or Sewer Capacity ("it is an existing parking lot ... we are converting the gravel to asphalt ... what do YOU think the impact on the number of School Children will be?") ... but the INTAKE CHECKLIST requires a CONCURRENCY FORM and the official form requires answers to these burning questions. [LOL]

My favorite is when an overachiever reviewer sends a Request for Additional Information asking for supporting documentation for our NON-IMPACT. Then we have to get clever ... how do you prove a negative? [FYI: a letter signed by an Engineer qualifies as proof, so we submit a letter stating that the Parking Lot will generate no additional Sewer Flow with a professional SEAL and that meets the requirement. ... God, I love my job!]

 

[atpollard]

Since this was drifting away from GRAVITY VEHICLES ... This same level of byzantine regulation will apply to FLYING CARS! We see it already with the FAA and the difference between Commercial Aircraft (cargo), Commercial Aircraft (passenger), Charter Aircraft, Private (single engine) Aircraft, Ultra-Light Aircraft and Home-Built Aircraft ... without getting into Parasails and Hang-gliders that fall below FAA regulation (I think). Just because a WORLD has Grav Vehicles, actually getting to operate one may require a LL Check.

LL is so underutilized.

 

[coliver988]

Since this was drifting away from GRAVITY VEHICLES ... This same level of byzantine regulation will apply to FLYING CARS! We see it already with the FAA and the difference between Commercial Aircraft (cargo), Commercial Aircraft (passenger), Charter Aircraft, Private (single engine) Aircraft, Ultra-Light Aircraft and Home-Built Aircraft ... without getting into Parasails and Hang-gliders that fall below FAA regulation (I think). Just because a WORLD has Grav Vehicles, actually getting to operate one may require a LL Check.

LL is so underutilized.

I use it fairly often. the documents you need to read to get out of the starport are an exponential curve based on LL. LL A is a few 1000 pages you need to review to get out if an Imperial starport. Pretty much like EULAs are now....and if the TL is low enough, it is a very thick book...and you need to sign off in triplicate.

edit: not all the time - depends on the game and world and how I feel that day,

 

[atpollard]

I have a story that is somewhat related to LL and Grav Vehicles that PLAYERS will have. (Not the stock Air Raft, but the Armed G-Carrier).

Dave owns a yacht and has the unusual hobby of diving the Caribbean searching for 18th Century Shipwrecks. Dave has occasionally run across “fishermen” that had bad intent and had a 12 Gauge Shotgun aboard to dissuade the rare but not unheard of unwelcome visitor. Arriving in some place like Jamaica requires HOURS of paperwork to dock, register the shotgun, get the ship searched for contraband (because you are armed) and then cleared to enter or leave port. When putting into port to just refuel, grab some groceries, and head back out (less than 30 minutes), there is a natural reluctance to announce that you have a shotgun hidden behind the stove and add 4 hours to the stop.

So departing the Jamaica port, one can be confronted by the US NAVY, who have an agreement to patrol the waters to support Jamaican law and suppress drug smuggling in the region. The NAVY is not ignorant of the realities and not setting out to get people in trouble without reason, but they are not stupid, they have a job to do and they have MUCH a better technology than you or the local port. So the Navy does not ASK about the shotgun, they TELL YOU about your shotgun as you leave the port. As an American and Captain of your ship, you have two options …

A. Return to the PORT and explain to the Jamaican Port Authority that you “forgot” you had a weapon aboard when you entered their port.

B. Throw the shotgun into the ocean.

Dave chose to purchase a new shotgun and not neglect the importance of reporting weapons aboard to local authorities.

This is a true story. For TRAVELLER, think about the things PLAYERS transport in their vehicles outside the Starport … just in case. How would YOUR community react to vehicles with Military Grade Armor? How would your community react if “tourists” had Machine Guns in the trunk “just in case”? We love LASERS, but what LL are Lasers legal at? How about an ACR? That G-Carrier will draw closer scrutiny.

 

[Condottiere]

You're already pre armed with any number of really large lasers, that will fry any law enforcement vehicle, gravitated or not.

 

[atpollard]

You're already pre armed with any number of really large lasers, that will fry any law enforcement vehicle, gravitated or not.

Starships are restricted to the Starport (without testing the Planetary Defense and Navy capability), so it is the weapons in and on the Grav Vehicle that determines whether you are cruising around in a Flying Car or a Helicopter Gunship.

Part of the point was YOU think you are only dealing with Local Yokels until an Imperial Navy SDB arrives on a ANTI-PIRACY patrol with a mandate to support local LEO and starts asking hard questions about whether you are obeying LOCAL LL?

“So would you like to drop the G-carrier from orbit or land the Free Trader and answer the complaints from local LEO?”

 

[Condottiere]

In terms of shotguns in Traveller, that's very much the last firearm you have to give up.

Starships can presumed to be armed, and it's not a resolved issue whether they can't do point to point dirtside.

On the other hand, it's quite clear if your gravitationally motivated scooter is packing heat.

 

[chipla]

LL is so underutilized.

Agreed.

Talking of whatever did the FAA classify the one or two flying cars that do exist as? IIRC they require(d) a pilots liscence as well as a driving one which is why they never really took off (pun not intended) the few times they made it to the prototype phase.

Starships are restricted to the Starport (without testing the Planetary Defense and Navy capability), so it is the weapons in and on the Grav Vehicle that determines whether you are cruising around in a Flying Car or a Helicopter Gunship.

I think this opens up some interesting legal questions in Charted Space both within and without the Imperium.

In Imperial space if I understand correctly up to 10 diameters is space controlled by a planet and solely subject to their laws, up to 100 diameters is a joint zone between the planet and the Imperium. If a planet bans shipboard lasers for whatever reason just by entering their 10D zone of control (which in most cases you’d have to do to land at a starport) you’ve broken the law before you’ve even got a chance to land. Presumably this is usually all sorted out at a high level so that it doesn’t inconvenience trade but an over zealous constable could be a minor annoyance for players if they have to move out of the pre-arranged flight paths for whatever reason.

Beyond Imperial Space in areas with independent polities i doubt many planets actively bam armed ships because trade it’s important and piracy is always a risk. I can however see particularly authoritarian or despotic regimes preventing armed ships entering their space to prevent their populace using the weapons against the state.

 

[casquilho]

Beyond Imperial Space in areas with independent polities i doubt many planets actively bam armed ships because trade it’s important and piracy is always a risk.

This makes me think of the UK law that they are trying to put into place that says it is illegal to arm or help arm a commercial ship anywhere in the world. So those UK security firms that sell escort services to freight companies near parts of Africa would now be breaking UK laws just by existing.

Common sense and government reality are seldom in alignment. Special interests make sure of that all the time.

 

[whartung]

"No. My ship is not armed. That? That's a 80 MW communication laser."

 

[kilemall]

I have a story that is somewhat related to LL and Grav Vehicles that PLAYERS will have. (Not the stock Air Reaft, but the Armed G-Carrier).

Dave owns a yacht and has the unusual hobby of diving the Caribbean searching for 18th Century Shipwrecks. Dave has occasionally run across “fishermen” that had bad intent and had a 12 Gauge Shotgun aboard to dissuade the rare but not unheard of unwelcome visitor. Arriving in some place like Jamaica requires HOURS of paperwork to dock, register the shotgun, get the ship searched for contraband (because you are armed) and then cleared to enter or leave port. When putting into port to just refuel, grab some groceries, and head back out (less than 30 minutes), there is a natural reluctance to announce that you have a shotgun hidden behind the stove and add 4 hours to the stop.

So departing the Jamaica port, one can be confronted by the US NAVY, who have an agreement to patrol the waters to support Jamaican law and suppress drug smuggling in the region. The NAVY is not ignorant of the realities and not setting out to get people in trouble without reason, but they are not stupid, they have a job to do and they have MUCH a better technology than you or the local port. So the Navy does not ASK about the shotgun, they TELL YOU about your shotgun as you leave the port. As an American and Captain of your ship, you have two options …

A. Return to the PORT and explain to the Jamaican Port Authority that you “forgot” you had a weapon aboard when you entered their port.

B. Throw the shotgun into the ocean.

Dave chose to purchase a new shotgun and not neglect the importance of reporting weapons aboard to local authorities.

This is a true story. For TRAVELLER, think about the things PLAYERS transport in their vehicles outside the Starport … just in case. How would YOUR community react to vehicles with Military Grade Armor? How would your community react if “tourists” had Machine Guns in the trunk “just in case”? We love LASERS, but what LL are Lasers legal at? How about an ACR? That G-Carrier will draw closer scrutiny.

I get around this whole thing by a principle of lawful arms by deputization. You declare your arms, you take an oath deputizing to the starport authority, you can carry. But they know you are armed and may be called out to take in a recalcitrant criminal.

Applies only to the starport, local LL is its own thing.