Is it Traveller?

[Liam Devlin]

From the thread on Lonestar boards, perhaps a poll would have been better to achieve the same results I postulated. Given the fact there are 7K members but we seldom see more than 350+ odd actually post currently here in 2007 we shall see what occurs.

The questions are multiple choice, and based on the thread in question.

There have been others like this poll, to include the polling of folks who prefer which game variant mechanics they preferred (CT-MT-T4-TNE-GT-T20-T2300) in the past.

None of these questions require to the poster to declare which "version" or combination of the existing editions of rules sets you (those taking this poll) use IYTU.

Indeed, you can vote on this poll and feel free NOT to comment on your vote, yea and verily, I encourage that, if that be your choice, and you have no wish to post.

[RE-EDITED]

--sincerely,

 

[mbrinkhues]

Could not answer (1) since I seperate Game Mechanics and Background so "have no clue" there

 

[Valarian]

I answered for more realism in Question 5. The reason for this is I wouldn't mind some better, more plausible UWP system data. It wouldn't change the game for me if a few star types changed here and there, or the population of a barren rock was moved to a more Terran type world in the subsector.

 

[Liam Devlin]

[EDITED]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Could not answer (1) since I seperate Game Mechanics and Background so "have no clue" there

Whereas I do not separate them. Understood, Michael--no problem. The linked argumentative thread did likewise, and hence I created the question.

Try it it again, with that in context. Answer it as you see it, your opinion.

sincerely,

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Valarian:
I answered for more realism in Question 5. The reason for this is I wouldn't mind some better, more plausible UWP system data. It wouldn't change the game for me if a few star types changed here and there, or the population of a barren rock was moved to a more Terran type world in the subsector.

Based on the revelations of the various random number generation proggies used after the Spinward Marches Sector was done (ie--the rest of the Known Space), I concur as well, Valarian, without rehashing those threads.

 

[kafka47]

Good poll, Liam. I have indicated that Traveller is still the LBB that need to have a substantial re-write to keep up. However, I also, want to maintain a certain amount of history (or to use a vulgar word - cannon) so as to allow players to see the vast tapistry that they can take advantage of. I think Traveller players, are like old Greyhawkers, they long for Gary's writing but completely despise everything he has done since TSR because it does not square with their adolencent memories...which nothing ever does.

 

[flykiller]

question 1 ought to have some concession to cinematics. seems lots of people play that way.

 

[far-trader]

I cannot provide valid information in the following fields:

Answer for question 2.
Answer for question 4.
Answer for question 1.
Answer for question 3.
Answer for question 6.

(that's the order the error check gave them in)

So, as I can't vote without skewing the results badly, and without voting I can't see the results, can I beg you good Liam to provide a summary of the results some time down the road?

The only one I can answer as posed is question 5:

Does Traveller the game lack enough realism with what we know today?

Yes, it does.

That's a no brainer and the one I think we could all agree on.

I'm sure I'm wrong about that agreeing part though

 

[Merxiless]

I answered what I felt. I think the first two questions were worded in a bit of a confusing manner. Thanks for the poll.

 

[The Shaman]

I couldn't answer all of the questions with the options given, and the poll wouldn't record just the answers I did select, so I'll post my answers here, LD.

Question 1: Our game is mostly original Traveller, with a two rules subsystems replaced with third-party published systems - we also use a grab-bag of additional rules options from official periodicals, decanonized game books, fanzines, fansites, and our own homebrewed rules.

I hesitated to select, "Diverse use of the Multiple rulesets +realism added in," due to the "realism" codicil, however: I find a size 3, atm 8, hyd 6 mainworld orbiting an F1 star a tad annoying, but not game-breaking enough to feel the need to correct it unless I have some specific, adventure-driven reason for doing so - in these rare cases, I change as little as necessary to achieve the results I want and chalk up the change to an IISS database error.

Question 2: I might've selected "stellar and physical data," but it depends on exactly what those changes are: If it's updating star types to more closely fit the UWP mainworld data, then the changes are unlikely to be significant, but if we're talking about reducing the number of habitable worlds or changing the distribution of star types to more closely correspond to the known stellar population (i.e., many M stars, very few G stars), then the change from what I think of as a core conceit of Traveller could be significant. Specifics matter here.

Question 3: This was the easiest one - removing the history of the Imperium and its neighbors and the aliens of Charted Space would be the significant changes for me, if we're talking about the house setting. However, keep in mind that ATUs using some version of the Traveller rules are still Traveller as well.

Question 4: I'm inclined to say that any significant change to the definitions provided for the OTU by MWM and Co. is an ATU - that said, I think that canon and the strictest interpretation of the OTU only applies to authors anyway, and given that even with years and years of published work, the OTU leaves much undefined for the referee to fill-in as appropriate. (Unlike some, I see this as a feature, not a bug.)

Question 5: I couldn't answer this one - it's just too vague.

The Smoke Ring of The Integral Trees isn't a realistic, or even particularly plausible, setting, and yet it is internally consistent and carefully considers the implications of physics given the speculative assumptions - that is what I look for in a science fiction setting.

Question 6: I play and referee Traveller, and prefer it to the many other roleplaying games I've played over the years.

 

[chshrkt]

All the questions were worded in a confusing manner, but I think I was able to answer them based on MTU.

Specifically question 4: IMHO, the OTU is Traveller "As Written".

The caveat:
Quite frankly probably very few GMs actually run the game "As Written", I know I don't. I use the LBBs as a base, then incorporate anything I like from the other versions, (Mega, TNE, Gurps, 4th Ed), fansites, magazines, etc.

Here are my unsolicited views on the major areas covered by the poll.

- Stellar data is kind of sketchy reality wise in many areas of the Knowne Universe (20 million inhabitants on a TL4 airless planet anyone?), so I just change the UWP to my liking and assume the original survey data got corrupted/mis-keyed somehow, or there were major changes to the system/planet since the survey was taken. (This keeps the PCs on their toes when visiting a new system and trying to guess what is going on using [at least!] decades old survey information.)

- Computer Tech. Well, this one has had many explanations and theories over the years, and I just try not to think about it too much. I make the assumption that the "bulky" computer requirements make allowances for the hardened hardware, the hardened cabling (to the jump/maneuver drives, external sensors, data terminals throughout the ship, etc), and a modular design using bulky components (you can swap out a daughterboard in the nav station that has blown etc). I allow for more modern "personal" computing equipment on planet and in highports etc.

- Alien Races are a challenge for me since I don't just want humans in funny suits (curse my stodgy human ways! ), I try to stick to just the major races as PCs and let them incorporate their interpretation on how to act within the broad guidelines set down in the published references. Non-humaniti based alien NPCs are as weird as I can make them without stepping too far outside published references. No big surprises with this attitude I am sure.

- The Third Imperium. Wow, so many interpretations, I prefer sort of a benign, perhaps slightly overwhelmed 3I that relies heavily on it's Sector, Sub-Sector, and regional nobility to keep things in line, only sending the "Big Guns" when things get well and truly out of control. Then it is always with overwhelming superiority of numbers to squish whoever stepped beyond the line of acceptable behavior (Vargr and Zhodani not-withstanding). Lots of 3I sponsored, but mostly independent, Sector/Sub-Sector/Planetary navies and military acadamies etc. (kind of like the national education standards, most states/School districts modify them in some way so that each one somewhat is unique). No big bad Star-warsie Imperial or Firefly Alliance style governments for me thank you. That of course does not stop there from being shadowy, conspiracy loving, assassin guild member, departments within the 3I. But you will never hear any official response to such ludicrous accusations on the existence of such.

- Trade & Economics. Right.
I am not, and have never been, a member of the communist party Mr Senator... wait, that's not right...
My wife is a high school Social Studies teacher and has tried to get me to read Freakonomics.
<george_bush_voice> "Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent, not at this juncture..."</george_bush_voice>
Seriously, I use huge and generous amounts of Cinematic handwaving here, I hate keeping detailed financial records in my games, so I keep it as simple as possible and ignore most of the canon rules (of course that did not stop me from buying Gurps Far Trader and Starports though )

So there you have it. My Humble Opinions.

I have been hanging around these forums for a couple years now, not saying much of anything, but after a gaming hiatus of over 15 years I am restarting my Traveller game with the constant encouragement of my wife.

Cheers!

 

[Ptah]

I voted, but also found the choices conflate mechanics and setting.

To me orginal Traveller has no setting, it was some time (from an impatient teenager's point of view) before any was published. By the time a commercial setting arrived, me and everyone I knew who played had already created a Traveller Universe. That's what LBB3 was for.

For me, Traveller mechanics are a skill-based system, using a non-linear resolution mechanic (2D6, for example), where the speed of interstellar communication does not exceed the speed of interstellar travel, where interstellar travel takes a fair amount of time, takes place through a region that has no contact with the normal universe, and where these FTL engines require obscene amounts of fuel. I'm very open as to how one implements those concepts, for it to still be Traveller to me.

For example, on system generation. I always felt empowered to change things as I saw fit especially with respect to stellar primaries. I also had fun explaining weird random generation results like a size 3 world with atm 8, well clealy this is some high density world, read mining colony, and maybe some very active volcanism and or life form is pumping out air faster than it can escape. Now I have a possible center for adventure. What if a disease threatens that life form, how dangerous is this vulcanism. So making the stellar primary stuff more "realistic" really wouldn't change MTU one wit, but I still would enjoy the information.

On computers, I never took the space requirements to be read literally. I always assumed it included sensors, communications gear, control linkages, back up systems, etc. All things that can add to the effectiveness of a ship in battle.

On trade rules and economics, I was always grateful that Traveller even had such a thing, but always took them as suggestions that would certainly change based on YTU and the economic conditions in it.

On setting, to me Traveller has never been about the setting. So I'll leave it to the owners/creators of the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) to determine what is and is not official. But it seems to me if you get rid of the Imperium and/or the aliens you are really changing major aspects of that setting in a way that's disruptive to people's campaigns and expectations.

That's my take on it.

 

[Jame]

I don't know if I understand the questions well enough to vote.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by chshrkt:
All the questions were worded in a confusing manner...

Agreed. A lot of interpretation there.

Good idea for a poll, but poorly executed.

-S4

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Good poll, Liam. I have indicated that Traveller is still the LBB that need to have a substantial re-write to keep up. However, I also, want to maintain a certain amount of history (or to use a vulgar word - cannon) so as to allow players to see the vast tapistry that they can take advantage of. I think Traveller players, are like old Greyhawkers, they long for Gary's writing but completely despise everything he has done since TSR because it does not square with their adolencent memories...which nothing ever does.

Thank you, Kafka47. No, nothing remains the same does it? its Part of growing up & real life. Its also very human...

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by flykiller:
question 1 ought to have some concession to cinematics. seems lots of people play that way.

IYO, mayhap flykiller.

This poll, as stated above, was based on the bones of the contentious thread linked to this one. Cinematics were not part of it, so I did not include it.

sincerely,

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Merxiless:
I answered what I felt. I think the first two questions were worded in a bit of a confusing manner. Thanks for the poll.

There were limits to the length of words in the questions, and In the manner of the great Ancient author Sallust of the Roman Imperium, I went with what fit, and fewer words for directness.

This poll does require reading carefully. Gorram, I had to when I voted first shortly after setting it up, with the limits of the medium as I find them--or anyone who makes one of these polls.

I hope I covered what I saw in at the time(185 posts in 13 pages) were the bones of contention. Hope I covered your angles as wel merxiless, being the second highest poster there.

sincerely,

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chshrkt:
All the questions were worded in a confusing manner...

Agreed. A lot of interpretation there.

Good idea for a poll, but poorly executed.

-S4 </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you S4. For explanation:

The "confusing nature" of the questions were found in interpreting the bones of the arguments on the thread linked to here.

Limits on the length of words are a factor anyone writing this poll will encounter.

I offered anyone to condense it, and had no takers.

Did you vote in the poll?

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by chshrkt:
All the questions were worded in a confusing manner, but I think I was able to answer them based on MTU.

Understood, sir, and this is what I hoped for, that those who have been polled would use their own TU's and their own opinions to answer them without the added rehashed query--which one do you use, which wasn't part of the 13-now 14 pages elsewhere..

Specifically question 4: IMHO, the OTU is Traveller "As Written". The caveat:
Quite frankly probably very few GMs actually run the game "As Written", I know I don't. I use the LBBs as a base, then incorporate anything I like from the other versions, (Mega, TNE, Gurps, 4th Ed), fansites, magazines, etc.

Then sir, you have answered my question! Thank you.

Here are my unsolicited views on the major areas covered by the poll.

- Stellar data is kind of sketchy reality wise in many areas of the Knowne Universe (20 million inhabitants on a TL4 airless planet anyone?), so I just change the UWP to my liking and assume the original survey data got corrupted/mis-keyed somehow, or there were major changes to the system/planet since the survey was taken. (This keeps the PCs on their toes when visiting a new system and trying to guess what is going on using [at least!] decades old survey information.)

- Computer Tech. Well, this one has had many explanations and theories over the years, and I just try not to think about it too much. I make the assumption that the "bulky" computer requirements make allowances for the hardened hardware, the hardened cabling (to the jump/maneuver drives, external sensors, data terminals throughout the ship, etc), and a modular design using bulky components (you can swap out a daughterboard in the nav station that has blown etc). I allow for more modern "personal" computing equipment on planet and in highports etc.

- Alien Races are a challenge for me since I don't just want humans in funny suits (curse my stodgy human ways! ), I try to stick to just the major races as PCs and let them incorporate their interpretation on how to act within the broad guidelines set down in the published references. Non-humaniti based alien NPCs are as weird as I can make them without stepping too far outside published references. No big surprises with this attitude I am sure.

- The Third Imperium. Wow, so many interpretations, I prefer sort of a benign, perhaps slightly overwhelmed 3I that relies heavily on it's Sector, Sub-Sector, and regional nobility to keep things in line, only sending the "Big Guns" when things get well and truely out of control. Then it is always with overwhelming superiority of numbers to squish whoever stepped beyond the line of acceptable behavior (Vargr and Zhodani not-withstanding). Lots of 3I sponsored, but mostly independent, Sector/Sub-Sector/Planetary navies and military acadamies etc. (kind of like the national education standards, most states/School districts modify them in some way so that each one somewhat is unique). No big bad Star-warsie Imperial or Firefly Alliance style governments for me thank you. That of course does not stop there from being shadowy, conspiracy loving, assasin guild member, departments within the 3I. But you will never hear any official response to such ludicrous accusations on the existence of such.

Your honest interpretation was the one I sought, for only you as a GM or player can answer how you perceive these.

- Trade & Economics. Right.
I am not, and have never been, a member of the communist party Mr Senator... wait, that's not right...
My wife is a high school Social Studies teacher and has tried to get me to read Freakonomics.
<george_bush_voice> "Not gonna do it, wouldn'g be prudent, not at this juncture..."</george_bush_voice>
Seriously, I use huge and generous amounts of Cinematic handwaving here, I hate keeping detailed financial records in my games, so I keep it as simple as possible and ignore most of the canon rules (of course that did not stop me from buying Gurps Far Trader and Starports though )

"The Chair recognizes Senator chshrkt..."

So there you have it. My Humble Opinions.

I have been hanging around these forums for a couple years now, not saying much of anything, but after a gaming hiatus of over 15 years I am restarting my Traveller game with the constant encouragement of my wife.

Cheers!

I am pleased to hear you return to the game sir after such a Hiatus. My applause to your wife who backs your decision sir!

sincerely,

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by The Shaman:
I couldn't answer all of the questions with the options given, and the poll wouldn't record just the answers I did select, so I'll post my answers here, LD.

Question 1: Our game is mostly original Traveller, with a two rules subsystems replaced with third-party published systems - we also use a grab-bag of additional rules options from official periodicals, decanonized game books, fanzines, fansites, and our own homebrewed rules.

I hesitated to select, "Diverse use of the Multiple rulesets +realism added in," due to the "realism" codicil, however: I find a size 3, atm 8, hyd 6 mainworld orbiting an F1 star a tad annoying, but not game-breaking enough to feel the need to correct it unless I have some specific, adventure-driven reason for doing so - in these rare cases, I change as little as necessary to achieve the results I want and chalk up the change to an IISS database error.

Question 2: I might've selected "stellar and physical data," but it depends on exactly what those changes are: If it's updating star types to more closely fit the UWP mainworld data, then the changes are unlikely to be significant, but if we're talking about reducing the number of habitable worlds or changing the distribution of star types to more closely correspond to the known stellar population (i.e., many M stars, very few G stars), then the change from what I think of as a core conceit of Traveller could be significant. Specifics matter here.

Question 3: This was the easiest one - removing the history of the Imperium and its neighbors and the aliens of Charted Space would be the significant changes for me, if we're talking about the house setting. However, keep in mind that ATUs using some version of the Traveller rules are still Traveller as well.

Question 4: I'm inclined to say that any significant change to the definitions provided for the OTU by MWM and Co. is an ATU - that said, I think that canon and the strictest interpretation of the OTU only applies to authors anyway, and given that even with years and years of published work, the OTU leaves much undefined for the referee to fill-in as appropriate. (Unlike some, I see this as a feature, not a bug.)

Question 5: I couldn't answer this one - it's just too vague.

The Smoke Ring of The Integral Trees isn't a realistic, or even particularly plausible, setting, and yet it is internally consistent and carefully considers the implications of physics given the speculative assumptions - that is what I look for in a science fiction setting.

Question 6: I play and referee Traveller, and prefer it to the many other roleplaying games I've played over the years.

Articulate as always, Shaman. I have no idea why your votes would not stick once posted. Mine did. Most confusing, but thank you for attempting to answer my poll.

sincerely,