DGP and all that

[Elliot]

and so are we - but thats no reflection on how great DGP was for traveller (fanboy hero worship now disengaged).

 

[Elliot]

and so are we - but thats no reflection on how great DGP was for traveller (fanboy hero worship now disengaged).

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:

I hate to say it, but it strikes me as a bunch of "wannabe's" with Roger willing to pay the money to buy himself a title, but never really willing to do the hard work to actually "earn" it.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but after almost 10 years of DGP in Roger's hands, results speak louder than words at this point.

My guess is that after so much time, it has actually gotten much harder for Roger to do anything with what he has (or had). It would probably be extremely hard for him to appear again and admit that he either screwed up making the purchase or simply has been unable to follow through. I imagine that he, if not thing else, wants to pretend that his purchase of DGP materials didn't happen and otherwise forget about it now.

One of those, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but not that it has been proven to not be, admitting that you were wrong is really hard to do sorts of things. Selling the remaining property on at this point at anything other than a fantastic profit would also be unacceptable (like how many people approach their stock losses).

Ron

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:

I hate to say it, but it strikes me as a bunch of "wannabe's" with Roger willing to pay the money to buy himself a title, but never really willing to do the hard work to actually "earn" it.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but after almost 10 years of DGP in Roger's hands, results speak louder than words at this point.

My guess is that after so much time, it has actually gotten much harder for Roger to do anything with what he has (or had). It would probably be extremely hard for him to appear again and admit that he either screwed up making the purchase or simply has been unable to follow through. I imagine that he, if not thing else, wants to pretend that his purchase of DGP materials didn't happen and otherwise forget about it now.

One of those, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but not that it has been proven to not be, admitting that you were wrong is really hard to do sorts of things. Selling the remaining property on at this point at anything other than a fantastic profit would also be unacceptable (like how many people approach their stock losses).

Ron

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:

I hate to say it, but it strikes me as a bunch of "wannabe's" with Roger willing to pay the money to buy himself a title, but never really willing to do the hard work to actually "earn" it.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but after almost 10 years of DGP in Roger's hands, results speak louder than words at this point.

My guess is that after so much time, it has actually gotten much harder for Roger to do anything with what he has (or had). It would probably be extremely hard for him to appear again and admit that he either screwed up making the purchase or simply has been unable to follow through. I imagine that he, if not thing else, wants to pretend that his purchase of DGP materials didn't happen and otherwise forget about it now.

One of those, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but not that it has been proven to not be, admitting that you were wrong is really hard to do sorts of things. Selling the remaining property on at this point at anything other than a fantastic profit would also be unacceptable (like how many people approach their stock losses).

Ron

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.)

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.)

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.)

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum. Promising vast expendatures only to fail to meet deadlines, provide emails that expire.

Failing to pay debts...

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum. Promising vast expendatures only to fail to meet deadlines, provide emails that expire.

Failing to pay debts...

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum. Promising vast expendatures only to fail to meet deadlines, provide emails that expire.

Failing to pay debts...

 

[Malenfant]

Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum.

It's funny how that works, isn't it. People seem to expect answers, and get pissed off when they're not provided to the point of actively hating the individuals who keep quiet for whatever reason.

But these people have no obligation to answer questions or return to the community at all. And as someone said - the more hostility that grows out of the community's frustration, the less likely it is that they'd resurface.

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum.

It's funny how that works, isn't it. People seem to expect answers, and get pissed off when they're not provided to the point of actively hating the individuals who keep quiet for whatever reason.

But these people have no obligation to answer questions or return to the community at all. And as someone said - the more hostility that grows out of the community's frustration, the less likely it is that they'd resurface.

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

 

[Malenfant]

Well, Roger has also incurred the wraith of the Traveller community by keeping his communication to the minimum.

It's funny how that works, isn't it. People seem to expect answers, and get pissed off when they're not provided to the point of actively hating the individuals who keep quiet for whatever reason.

But these people have no obligation to answer questions or return to the community at all. And as someone said - the more hostility that grows out of the community's frustration, the less likely it is that they'd resurface.

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

Well, I don't recall Dave making lots of promises and then not keeping them, which is a difference between Roger and Dave. Plus I knew Dave fairly well in the pre-TNE days, and he generally tried to do the best job he could and do what he said he would do. Keeping quiet is a good practice to avoid making promises you can't keep. So I respect Dave for that.

Roger could have kept fairly mum until he had something to show for it. It's the trail of Roger's unkept promises (still) all over the internet that makes Roger's approach somewhat more of a faux paux than Dave's simple silence.

It's probably true that at this point the only way for Roger to save face is to move on and just forget the whole thing. I'm not sure anyone would believe him without something concrete to back his word.

Which is too bad. I like Roger. I hoped the best for him, and from talking with him I could tell he at least had the vision. It's the follow-thru where he dropped the ball. And you can't tell what their follow-thru is like without *giving* the person the ball, which is what I did with Roger.

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

Well, I don't recall Dave making lots of promises and then not keeping them, which is a difference between Roger and Dave. Plus I knew Dave fairly well in the pre-TNE days, and he generally tried to do the best job he could and do what he said he would do. Keeping quiet is a good practice to avoid making promises you can't keep. So I respect Dave for that.

Roger could have kept fairly mum until he had something to show for it. It's the trail of Roger's unkept promises (still) all over the internet that makes Roger's approach somewhat more of a faux paux than Dave's simple silence.

It's probably true that at this point the only way for Roger to save face is to move on and just forget the whole thing. I'm not sure anyone would believe him without something concrete to back his word.

Which is too bad. I like Roger. I hoped the best for him, and from talking with him I could tell he at least had the vision. It's the follow-thru where he dropped the ball. And you can't tell what their follow-thru is like without *giving* the person the ball, which is what I did with Roger.

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by Malenfant:

I'm sure this must be a significant part of the reason why Dave Nilsen is loathed in some quarters too. It's not just that he did TNE, it's that there's the perception that he "owes people answers" when in fact he doesn't at all.

Well, I don't recall Dave making lots of promises and then not keeping them, which is a difference between Roger and Dave. Plus I knew Dave fairly well in the pre-TNE days, and he generally tried to do the best job he could and do what he said he would do. Keeping quiet is a good practice to avoid making promises you can't keep. So I respect Dave for that.

Roger could have kept fairly mum until he had something to show for it. It's the trail of Roger's unkept promises (still) all over the internet that makes Roger's approach somewhat more of a faux paux than Dave's simple silence.

It's probably true that at this point the only way for Roger to save face is to move on and just forget the whole thing. I'm not sure anyone would believe him without something concrete to back his word.

Which is too bad. I like Roger. I hoped the best for him, and from talking with him I could tell he at least had the vision. It's the follow-thru where he dropped the ball. And you can't tell what their follow-thru is like without *giving* the person the ball, which is what I did with Roger.

 

[Flynn]

Sir, I do not fault you for that, and while I wish that I could someday win the lottery and return the DGP material back to print (or at least ePrint), I don't expect we'll ever see the material come to pass. In the ensuing ten years, it's likely he may not even have those files anymore. Wouldn't stop him from OCRing/scanning the final products, as MWM has done for DriveThruRPG.com, but as you've said, that's grunt work.

Still, Mr. Fugate, I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about all of these things. It's always good to talk with one of the Great Old Ones, particularly someone as well-spoken, creative and insightful as you are. I appreciate the sacrifices you went through to bring quality Traveller products to us fans, and if there were a way I could show my appreciation to your wife and family for their support of you through that time period, I would do so in a heartbeat.

With Much Respect And Admiration,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Sir, I do not fault you for that, and while I wish that I could someday win the lottery and return the DGP material back to print (or at least ePrint), I don't expect we'll ever see the material come to pass. In the ensuing ten years, it's likely he may not even have those files anymore. Wouldn't stop him from OCRing/scanning the final products, as MWM has done for DriveThruRPG.com, but as you've said, that's grunt work.

Still, Mr. Fugate, I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about all of these things. It's always good to talk with one of the Great Old Ones, particularly someone as well-spoken, creative and insightful as you are. I appreciate the sacrifices you went through to bring quality Traveller products to us fans, and if there were a way I could show my appreciation to your wife and family for their support of you through that time period, I would do so in a heartbeat.

With Much Respect And Admiration,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Sir, I do not fault you for that, and while I wish that I could someday win the lottery and return the DGP material back to print (or at least ePrint), I don't expect we'll ever see the material come to pass. In the ensuing ten years, it's likely he may not even have those files anymore. Wouldn't stop him from OCRing/scanning the final products, as MWM has done for DriveThruRPG.com, but as you've said, that's grunt work.

Still, Mr. Fugate, I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us about all of these things. It's always good to talk with one of the Great Old Ones, particularly someone as well-spoken, creative and insightful as you are. I appreciate the sacrifices you went through to bring quality Traveller products to us fans, and if there were a way I could show my appreciation to your wife and family for their support of you through that time period, I would do so in a heartbeat.

With Much Respect And Admiration,
Flynn