Traveller Rules As Written

[Spinward Flow]

Or, you could try jumping from the landing pad on the planet surface

I tried that once with a character I'd rolled up.
The Referee gave me A LOOK ... asked the "Are You Sure?" question ... and when I replied "Yes" the Referee rolled dice.

Result?
Roll a new character.

Never made that mistake again when playing Traveller.

 

[McPerth]

2. In LBB5, depending on the world size, maybe make a run for it because the drives can take one hit and still be capable of Jump.

OTOH, with HG rules, as the scout is size code 1 and unarmored, any hit is likely to produce criticals (e.g. a triple BLaser turret, being rated as factor 3-4, depending on TL, would produce 2-3 criticals)...

Frankly, I'd also try the danerous jump when reaching 10D too...

 

[Spinward Flow]

OTOH, with HG rules, as the scout is size code 1 and unarmored, any hit is likely to produce criticals (e.g. a triple BLaser turret, being rated as factor 3-4, depending on TL, would produce 2-3 criticals)...

This is, quite frankly, the biggest hazard you can face in ship to ship combat with smaller (read: cheaper) starships. It isn't that difficult to face weapons with a higher code factor than your ship's hull factor, meaning automatic critical hits if hit (meaning, you can't afford to be hit!).

Once you reach around 400 tons or so of starship, this particular threat recedes (somewhat) in that your ship is large enough to take some hits without those hits being automatic criticals, but you still really don't want to get into a shootout with other ships.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the kind of thing that makes 1G maneuver drives and model/1 computers on the stock and standard merchant ships a huge liability, even if they are armed ... those ships just "wallow" like sitting ducks waiting for some Corsair to come along and ruin their day/balance sheet. Skimping on maneuver drives (and power plant) and computer model will certainly make for a cheap to buy/maintain starship, but it's also the equivalent to painting a target roundel all over your ship and broadcasting an automated message of "Kick Me!" over comm channels when it comes to an actual scrap fight.

Cheap to buy ... expensive to keep (and protect).

Of course, if you stick to places on the map that are well patrolled by System Defense Boats (so you don't need to worry about piracy) then you can get away with flying a merchant ship that never NEEDS to fire a shot to protect itself from being boarded. In that case, you're basically "outsourcing" the safety of your starship to local system defense patrols, rather than going to the expense of doing it yourself. If you're operating in a settled/civilized/safe part of the map, you can get away with that sort of thing ... but if you're not ... if you're plying your trade out in the fringes where SDBs and Navy presence is scarce ... let's just say you might want to invest more heavily into maneuver drives, power plant and computer capacity so as to keep YOURSELF safe when you can't rely on others to do the job for you.

Expensive to buy ... but more reliably profitable in the long run (if designed right).



Business, much like engineering, is all about the compromises you have to make in order to achieve the best outcome consistently.

 

[whartung]

Of course, if you stick to places on the map that are well patrolled by System Defense Boats (so you don't need to worry about piracy) then you can get away with flying a merchant ship that never NEEDS to fire a shot to protect itself from being boarded. In that case, you're basically "outsourcing" the safety of your starship to local system defense patrols, rather than going to the expense of doing it yourself. If you're operating in a settled/civilized/safe part of the map, you can get away with that sort of thing ... but if you're not ... if you're plying your trade out in the fringes where SDBs and Navy presence is scarce ... let's just say you might want to invest more heavily into maneuver drives, power plant and computer capacity so as to keep YOURSELF safe when you can't rely on others to do the job for you.

Well my opinion has always been that combat is the death of the enterprise, even if you win. The costs of repairs are just crushing your budget to the point that if you have the spare cash to afford combat repairs, you should be seriously considering why you're doing it in the first place, risking blood and fortune in hostile space when you can likely be doing it in far safer environs, or even doing it at all vs retiring on a beach somewhere warm.

The system currently does not reward risk taking at that level.

 

[McPerth]

The system currently does not reward risk taking at that level.

Which is quite right, IMHO, if you are a merchant ship, not a military (or paramilitary) one...

 

[Grav_Moped]

Or, you could try jumping from the landing pad on the planet surface

I do believe the success rule specifically state some crazy number like 18+ on 2d6, which means you need to have incredible skill, intelligence and related skills as DMs for your roll

I've done the math and checked maps. LBB2 misjump rules make it pretty survivable if you've got enough fuel left for a J-1 after you get out of jumpspace.

(from one of my previous posts, lightly edited)
Based on the +DMs, a jump from within 10D is always "ship destroyed", but a jump from 10-100D only results in "ship destroyed" on a base roll of 11+ (3/36). Survivable misjumps (ship survives, random destination) happen on (base 2D) rolls of 8-10 exactly (12/36, or 33%) -- that's not "rare instances". Successful (normal) Jumps from that zone occur on base 2D rolls of 7- (21/36, or 58.33%).

So, the jump succeeds outright a little more than half the time. A third of the time it's a 1-36 parsec misjump in a random direction. "Ship Destroyed" is a longshot at 11%.

The odds of coming out at or within J-1 of another world are actually pretty decent.

 

[Vargr Breath]

That depends on how you prefer your games to be run. Want crunchy second-by-second detail? Snapshot gives you that, in spades. Want rules-light narrative-form combat? Then it's a problem, if you see Snapshot (and/or AHL) as having superceded LBB1's combat rules.

Snapshot was great for one off games. When the whole group couldn't meet, the GM would have a Snapshot game ready to go. He had a lot of characters on index cards in a bag. You would reach into the bag and whatever character you pulled out was you for the game.
" The 3 of you wake up abruptly from cold sleep, it's dark with only emergency lighting on. On the floor lies the dead steward/medic with a shotgun with only 3 rounds left. You hear nothing from the other side of the door. One of you picks up the shotgun and then you open the door." Good luck!
This game was played not too long after JTAS-04 came out with the Reticulan Parasite in it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I've done the math and checked maps. LBB2 misjump rules make it pretty survivable if you've got enough fuel left for a J-1 after you get out of jumpspace.

(from one of my previous posts, lightly edited)
Based on the +DMs, a jump from within 10D is always "ship destroyed", but a jump from 10-100D only results in "ship destroyed" on a base roll of 11+ (3/36). Survivable misjumps (ship survives, random destination) happen on (base 2D) rolls of 8-10 exactly (12/36, or 33%) -- that's not "rare instances". Successful (normal) Jumps from that zone occur on base 2D rolls of 7- (21/36, or 58.33%).

So, the jump succeeds outright a little more than half the time. A third of the time it's a 1-36 parsec misjump in a random direction. "Ship Destroyed" is a longshot at 11%.

The odds of coming out at or within J-1 of another world are actually pretty decent.

Hmm, gosh darn it, I could have sworn I saw something on the misjump table that referenced planetary surface ... was it something I saw from another edition? Something I made up in my head and thought I had read it? Grr, this is annoying.

13+ on 2d6, with a +10 DM for within 10 diameters of a planet, so ... for a type S that's initially 23+ on 2d6. Assume legendary pilot, legendary navigator; i.e. Pilot-5, Nav-5, that cuts down the +10 DM (although perhaps engineering might be a better skill). But that still makes it 13+ on 2d6, so, if you're in an IISS Type-S, then that's another -2 DM, which cuts it down to 11+ on 2d6.

I do believe that is survivable. Note, no one in any of the groups I was part of attempted to jump off of a planet surface ... though it would be entertaining if a player in a large 6 to 8 player group decided to try it while everyone was on board.

 

[Spinward Flow]

"The 3 of you wake up abruptly from cold sleep, it's dark with only emergency lighting on. On the floor lies the dead steward/medic with a shotgun with only 3 rounds left. You hear nothing from the other side of the door. One of you picks up the shotgun and then you open the door." Good luck!

Ah yes, the "you're already drowning, what do you do?" way to start a game.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I do believe that is survivable. Note, no one in any of the groups I was part of attempted to jump off of a planet surface ... though it would be entertaining if a player in a large 6 to 8 player group decided to try it while everyone was on board.

I was only discussing jumps from within the 10D-100D zone, and never tried to figure out whether there was any way whatsoever to survive a jump from inside 10D... wow.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Well my opinion has always been that combat is the death of the enterprise, even if you win. The costs of repairs are just crushing your budget to the point that if you have the spare cash to afford combat repairs, you should be seriously considering why you're doing it in the first place, risking blood and fortune in hostile space when you can likely be doing it in far safer environs, or even doing it at all vs retiring on a beach somewhere warm.

The system currently does not reward risk taking at that level.

Hence why some of us genuflect before the altar of NO GET HITSU!! as our solution to the problem.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Ah yes, the "you're already drowning, what do you do?" way to start a game.

There were never "You just won the Lottery" starts to any of those games.

 

[whartung]

There were never "You just won the Lottery" starts to any of those games.

There's 1000kg of WorthAWholeLotMaterial, in 100kg blocks...and a shotgun with 3 rounds.

Oh, and the computer is counting...

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[kilemall]

Well my opinion has always been that combat is the death of the enterprise, even if you win. The costs of repairs are just crushing your budget to the point that if you have the spare cash to afford combat repairs, you should be seriously considering why you're doing it in the first place, risking blood and fortune in hostile space when you can likely be doing it in far safer environs, or even doing it at all vs retiring on a beach somewhere warm.

The system currently does not reward risk taking at that level.

Well it sort of did with the 1977 encounter tables.

You didn’t get to those high pop A starport full cargo hold/ high passage profit centers without being able to handle the higher risk of pirates. It was a major part of the free trader upgrade path to get the weapons and top end computer/programs installed to ruin Mr Pirate’s day.

That went away of course with the more simulationist later edition pirates hang around C starports versions. Great for sense of setting but a major subtle game incentive gone, leaving many with no clue why the speculative cargo game was so remunerative…

 

[Blue Ghost]

I was only discussing jumps from within the 10D-100D zone, and never tried to figure out whether there was any way whatsoever to survive a jump from inside 10D... wow.

Well, then again the rules do state "ship destroyed", so it's another one of those rules as written deals. Oh well

 

[Grav_Moped]

Well, then again the rules do state "ship destroyed", so it's another one of those rules as written deals. Oh well

I just never considered that you could stack up enough +DMs to not get the "ship destroyed" result inside of the 10D line.

 

[whartung]

Well it sort of did with the 1977 encounter tables.

Indeed. Head for a A Starport and you have a 14% chance of encountering a Pirate, and that having a 40+% chance of being a Merc Cruiser. All told, jumping into an A Starport world, you have an almost 6% chance of meeting a Pirate Cruiser, which pretty much means you're humped.

Hopefully all they want is the cargo.

You didn’t get to those high pop A starport full cargo hold/ high passage profit centers without being able to handle the higher risk of pirates. It was a major part of the free trader upgrade path to get the weapons and top end computer/programs installed to ruin Mr Pirate’s day.

Because the fundamental point is, to quote Joshua "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.".

A Free Trader, IF they are hit, has a 30% chance of mission kill. Jump, PPlant, M-Drive, Fuel, "Critical". M-Drive is iffy, can still jump with a dead M-Drive, the rest prevent jump, which I consider a mission kill.

That said, when on the run, were it my trader, I'd mount 6 sand casters, push the pedal to the metal, and pump sand each turn. That's 18 turns of sand, typically more than enough to get to 100D and jump. Upgrade to a Model 3 gives you the ability to run Maneuver/Evade 6, Jump and Navigation all at the same time. With the sand, that's -8 on the DMs. Not much is getting through that. Load ME6 and Launch, jet to the jump point, don't accelerate on the last turn (to preserve the sand), Swap out Launch for Jump and Navigate, and "Push the button, Max". And you're out of harms way. Need a Model 3 for that. A Model 2 lets you Auto/Evade, Jump, and Navigate. That's a -5 DM with sand. With a Model 1, you have to risk jump with just a -3 DM since you can just Jump and Navigate -- that will be Teeth Gritting time.

So, with a moderate investment, you may well be able to make yourself pretty much invulnerable.

But, again, if you can afford 18MCr for a new computer, what the heck are you doing jetting around the cosmos!? Go to the beach, son!

 

[Spinward Flow]

So, with a moderate investment, you may well be able to make yourself pretty much invulnerable.

This is the trend line that I've been noticing with my own ship design research. Big maneuver drives (and the power plants for them) are EXPENSIVE at low tech levels (9-12) just because you need 3 tons of power plant per EP which then costs MCr9 per EP under LBB5.80 with custom drives. Massive costs involved ... but if you've got more Agility than whoever might be chasing you, you can limit combat engagements to a single turn, which is incredibly valuable all things considered.

Once you have enough maneuver drive to outrun (most) competition, such as pirates, you want to start investing in getting a better computer model. In a number of instances, I keep finding that upgrading the computer by +1 or more model numbers can often times be cheaper (in tonnage and MCr) than upgrading the maneuver drive to get +1 more agility out of it.

So from my perspective, maneuver drives are the top priority until you can achieve Agility Superiority (+1 more than a pursuer is sufficient) and then after that just upgrade the computer as far as your tech level/tonnage/EP/MCr budget will allow. Really good computers can definitely be worth the investment when it comes to both offense and defense in ship to ship combat (and that whole NO GET HITSU!! thing).

 

[Blue Ghost]

I was only discussing jumps from within the 10D-100D zone, and never tried to figure out whether there was any way whatsoever to survive a jump from inside 10D... wow.

We actually had a pilot-5 in our group, and a couple of navigators who were either 2 or 3s. But it never occurred to anyone to try and "jump off the pad" so to speak. Even at 6g 10D distance is still quite a ways. I think the +10 DM for attempting to jump within 10D was meant as a cinematic "one in a million chance ... if you're being chased by whoever!" kind of thing. Although 2 on 2d6 is not equivalent to 1:1,000,000, but it's all meant in good gaming.

 

[whartung]

Once you have enough maneuver drive to outrun (most) competition, such as pirates, you want to start investing in getting a better computer model.

Agility is a HG thing, not a book 2 thing. Book 2 is all about computers and sandcasters.