Apparition
SOC-12
If I recall correctly from the Beta, unless things were changed of course, hand to hand is handled as an opposed task check, not similar to ranged combat.
TRAVELLER 5 - My Thoughts And Comments REDUX
- Thread starter Supplement Four
- Start date
If I recall correctly from the Beta, unless things were changed of course, hand to hand is handled as an opposed task check, not similar to ranged combat.
Original_Carl
SOC-12
It can be handled this way, or you can handle it as you would a ranged combat. Melee combat occurs somewhere between Touch and R1, so you basically never miss.
As with many things in T5 there's more than one way to do it.
thalassogen
SOC-12
First: Thanks, S4! This thread made T5 combat more understandable for me und to some extent "reconciled" me with the rules. I hope the other "problems" will be shoved away by your next posts.
Where did you get this from?
On p.214, there is talk about AutoFire and SnapFire requiring both burst/full auto capability and having the same speed limitation. But AutoFire is easier and does more damage.
On p.218, there is talk about SnapFire speeds of 0, 1, and 2 - not any. And there is no talk about burst/full auto capability.
Those are points I do not get.
Where did you get this from?
On p.214, there is talk about AutoFire and SnapFire requiring both burst/full auto capability and having the same speed limitation. But AutoFire is easier and does more damage.
On p.218, there is talk about SnapFire speeds of 0, 1, and 2 - not any. And there is no talk about burst/full auto capability.
Those are points I do not get.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I agree, atpollard. That's a suspect rule. It's seems too powerful and not logical, given one minute abstract combat rounds.
Basically, if the first attacker in a round hits his target, then the target is automatically suppressed.
But, if others are hit during the round, they're not supressed.
Doesn't make sense.
Dunno. Was hoping Rob or Don would weigh in on this.
Here are three things would make sense:
1. The task is Opposed, as someone says up-thread.
2. If the task is a 1D test, then there's got to be some heavy defense modifiers, because the Fighting Task does not account for an opponent blocking blows.
3. Or, the task for HTH combat is more difficult than 1D.
The combat task is similiar to, but not exactly like, the combat tasks in T4.
In T4, HTH combat is a 2D Brawling task.
This might work. Haven't read Opposed Tasks yet.
Glad to be of service, Citizen.
Can't promise that. I've got questions of my own.
Check out page 214, top left corner.
Yes, you're right. I goofed.
AutoFire and SnapFire can both be made at Speed-0 or Speed-1 only.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Page 135, under Opposed Tasks, gives two different examples of resloving a brawl in this game.
It's a 3D task.
I guess we're to assume that this is the brawling rule?
thalassogen
SOC-12
Hm, I do not understand the distinction between AutoFire and SnapFire then... (please don't tell me it is only a description-based distinction as this would not make any sense to me in a highly abstract combat system).
@Beta-Testers: Please give us a sample how combat should function. Maybe you could even push the errata ahead as you surely will know how the rules have been intended.
@Beta-Testers: Please give us a sample how combat should function. Maybe you could even push the errata ahead as you surely will know how the rules have been intended.
Except that Brawling, per p.142, is neither a Skill nor a Knowledge. I smell erratum.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
The difference should be ammo consumption. I see that SnapFire is harder than AutoFire, but AutoFire does more damage if penetration is made.
Yes, without tracking ammo, which it doesn't look like happens in this game, a weapon capable of AutoFire should always use AutoFire.
Hmmm....
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Wait! I did see it. As you say, on page. 218. SnapFire can even be used while running at Speed-2. AutoFire can only be used at Speed-1 or Speed-0.
Page 214 and 218 contradict each other.
Just like when we were kids playing Army!
Hey, those dramatic points in the movies where after firing hundreds of rounds they suddenly need to reload at the dramatic moment, you know, when the critter/alien/zombie is right around the corner. :rofl:
Abstract is all well and good ( you fired multiple times, they fired multiple times but no one actually hit anything, meanwhile Bruce and Chuck have blocked each other multiple times in one minute but only one hit connected) but just when do you say alright, you're out of ammo?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Yes, I could see a simple system like:
Make a slash " / " to indicate a half a mag gone when Aimed Fire used in a round.
Make an " X " to indicate a full magazine was used up during a round when SnapFire was used.
It takes two magazines, " X X ", per round when using AutoFire.
Or, some like idea--to keep it simple but still keep track of ammo reserves. Maybe clip size can adjust this a bit.
Large weapons, like missile launchers, would be 1 fire per round weapons, using up all ammo (unless the character is standing next to a crate of extra ammo).
Make a slash " / " to indicate a half a mag gone when Aimed Fire used in a round.
Make an " X " to indicate a full magazine was used up during a round when SnapFire was used.
It takes two magazines, " X X ", per round when using AutoFire.
Or, some like idea--to keep it simple but still keep track of ammo reserves. Maybe clip size can adjust this a bit.
Large weapons, like missile launchers, would be 1 fire per round weapons, using up all ammo (unless the character is standing next to a crate of extra ammo).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Another simple system could be something like a target number.
Roll X or less on 1D, 2D, 3D or all the ammo for the weapon is used up.
Roll 1D for Aimed Fire. Roll 2D for SnapFire. Roll 3D for AutoFire.
Players can increase the number by the number of magazines they buy.
For example, a six shot revolver might have Ammo-2. This means that, after a round of combat, the character is out of ammo unless the ammo throw is made.
If Aimed Fire was used during the round, then the throw is 1D for 2 or less.
If SnapFire was used, then the throw is 2D for 2 or less.
If the character takes a lot of ammo with him to the fight, he increases the Ammo number by +1 for every extra 6-round speed clip that he buys/takes with him.
For example, if he takes 6 speed clips (that's six, 6-round speed clips for the revolver), then his ammo number is Ammo-8 (that's Ammo-2 + 6).
Each round, the Ammo number goes down by 1. Thus, this character would not have to check for ammo until round 4 if he used Aimed Fire each round.
Round 5: Ammo-5. Roll 1D for 5- or be out of ammo.
If using SnapFire, then he checks each round.
Just an idea.
Roll X or less on 1D, 2D, 3D or all the ammo for the weapon is used up.
Roll 1D for Aimed Fire. Roll 2D for SnapFire. Roll 3D for AutoFire.
Players can increase the number by the number of magazines they buy.
For example, a six shot revolver might have Ammo-2. This means that, after a round of combat, the character is out of ammo unless the ammo throw is made.
If Aimed Fire was used during the round, then the throw is 1D for 2 or less.
If SnapFire was used, then the throw is 2D for 2 or less.
If the character takes a lot of ammo with him to the fight, he increases the Ammo number by +1 for every extra 6-round speed clip that he buys/takes with him.
For example, if he takes 6 speed clips (that's six, 6-round speed clips for the revolver), then his ammo number is Ammo-8 (that's Ammo-2 + 6).
Each round, the Ammo number goes down by 1. Thus, this character would not have to check for ammo until round 4 if he used Aimed Fire each round.
Round 5: Ammo-5. Roll 1D for 5- or be out of ammo.
If using SnapFire, then he checks each round.
Just an idea.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Ok, brawling is not a skill. But isn't martial arts a skill? That is what I envision the fighting knowledge "unarmed" to be-martial arts.
My example in this thread was based on the rules that supp 4 has gone thru. It is very clear that
fighting-unarmed VS brawling
needs clarity. It would be useful at this stage if Don or Rob could weigh in here.
***Cross posted in the Errata discussion thread.
My example in this thread was based on the rules that supp 4 has gone thru. It is very clear that
fighting-unarmed VS brawling
needs clarity. It would be useful at this stage if Don or Rob could weigh in here.
***Cross posted in the Errata discussion thread.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
If you check the Fighting skill, "Unarmed" is referenced. Is that a Knowlege? I haven't checked yet.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Yes, a knowledge. The first two times you get a skill you pick a knowledge. From the third time on you gain the actual skill.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
BACK TO AMMO.
Another thing that can be done is to shorten the abstract round. Classic Traveller uses an abstract 15 second round. SnapFire fires one bullet per round. AutoFire fires four bullets per burst.
If not copy that, then something basic like that could be used.
The Star Wars D6 game is not big on tracking ammo, either. But, it's a little more acceptible in that game because even a small blaster pistol can hold enough Tibanna blaster gas for 100 rounds.
It's not as easy to accept in this game where there are 6 round revolvers and 13 round autopistols.
But, how it could be handled in D6 Star Wars was by using a Fumble. I haven't read the T5 task system yet (it's quite lengthy!). Is there some sort of fumble indicator?
If so, a fumble, early in the fight, could indicate a weapon jam. But, a few rounds (minutes) into the fight, a fumble could mean that the character has burned up all his ammo for that weapon.
Another thing that can be done is to shorten the abstract round. Classic Traveller uses an abstract 15 second round. SnapFire fires one bullet per round. AutoFire fires four bullets per burst.
If not copy that, then something basic like that could be used.
The Star Wars D6 game is not big on tracking ammo, either. But, it's a little more acceptible in that game because even a small blaster pistol can hold enough Tibanna blaster gas for 100 rounds.
It's not as easy to accept in this game where there are 6 round revolvers and 13 round autopistols.
But, how it could be handled in D6 Star Wars was by using a Fumble. I haven't read the T5 task system yet (it's quite lengthy!). Is there some sort of fumble indicator?
If so, a fumble, early in the fight, could indicate a weapon jam. But, a few rounds (minutes) into the fight, a fumble could mean that the character has burned up all his ammo for that weapon.
A heck of a lot can happen in a minute, including a minute of keeping your head down and praying. 
While I would not want the unlimited firepower option, neither do I want to go through 6 magazines in 3 combat rounds either.
Depends on magazine size too, how many shots on a decent laser rifle? How about that same laser rifle built into battledress?
Rate of Fire could play a part here, and that Tac Missile launcher... Yeah, even the Master Chief can only carry 2+6 rockets ready
While I would not want the unlimited firepower option, neither do I want to go through 6 magazines in 3 combat rounds either.Depends on magazine size too, how many shots on a decent laser rifle? How about that same laser rifle built into battledress?
Rate of Fire could play a part here, and that Tac Missile launcher... Yeah, even the Master Chief can only carry 2+6 rockets ready
If you chose Fighter as a major/minor skill in higher education, does that rule apply? Would I have to pick Fighter 0 (weapon) -2 as a minor in Military Academy or do I get Fighter - 2?
This whole Skill/Knowledge is still tying me in knots, and Reading PDFs is not like being able to flip back and forth on the dead trees I prefer to heft.
