LBB size

[Spinward Flow]

I think I like Mixam better for a few reasons:

1. They'll do a saddle stitch book up to 64 page. Lulu will only do 48.

You'll NEED a 64 page count in order to print LBB A3 Twilight's Peak.

 

[plazman30]

How much work did you do in prepping it, any special lessons learned, and how much does this cost?

For me, there was not a lot of work. But I have some minor desktop publishing skills, which allowed me to design the cover and properly size the pages. I can post a step-by-step of what I did tomorrow. But I have a Mac, so you'll need to come up with Windows equivalents.

 

[plazman30]

The price for the Mixam book was $3.50 + shipping.

You cannot get these books done in the same size as the original LBBs, which according to my measurements is 5.75 in × 8.75 in.

So, your choice is doing US Digest size ( 5.5 in × 8.5 in) or US Trade Size ( 6 in × 9 in). One is a little too small, and the other is a little too big.

I chose US Digest Size for mine and I'm 5 books in so I am committed. But I wish I had gone for 6×9. For my aging eyes, a little bigger is better that a little smaller.

It's a great time to in the RPG scene now with POD services out there able to recreate classic RPGs.

I wish there was some way I could make these files available for others to use. But I understand copyright laws prevent that.

Another note. This is only cost-effective for things that are black and white. As soon as you throw a color rulebook at a POD service, the price goes up astronomically.

 

[plazman30]

Another note here. I've been getting these LBBs printed on uncoated paper, because that is what I assumed all these rulebooks used back then. Now that I actually have a copy of Mercenary, I see that they used coated paper.

And another note on Lulu vs Mixam…

I HATE the feel of the Lulu matte covers. So, the PODs I ordered from Lulu I got with glossy covers. The matte covers from Mixam feel great and look similar to the original matte covers. This is also a plus on the Mixam side.

 

[plazman30]

And here is a list of the prep work I do to prepare a file for submission to a POD service. These are broad strokes steps. I can't get into every little click by click detail.

So, the first things I do is pick a size. For my books, I chose US Digest size, which makes the book 5.5×8.5.

Since POD services require page be oversized, so they can trim them down after printing, you need to resize the pages to 5.75×8.85. To do this, I load the PDF up in Apple Preview (I'm on a Mac) and use MacOS's "Print to PDF" function. I choose a page size of 5.75×8.75 and a scaling of 100%.

Once this is done, I open that file and delete the front and back cover. This is the file you will upload to the POD service of your choice.

The bigger deal here now is the quality of the scans. Sometimes you'll have a crooked page. Or these will be what looks like a stain on the page. Or the edge of the page will have a black line along it from the scan. Here is where I would then use Pixelmator Pro on my Mac to import the page, clean up the imperfections, and export it and insert it back into the PDF to replace the page. I know at least one book has the word "GDW Library Copy" stamped on it.

The harder part is the cover. You need to open the original PDF and use some tool to export the front and back covers. Then I usually get the cover template from the website, load it in an image editing app and import the covers and resize them to fit the template.

Since the Traveller covers are pretty basic, I recreated them from scratch using a desktop publishing app called Scribus.

IMHO, the cover design is the significant "heavy lift" on making PODs out of PDFs. Since they don't really contain any rules or artwork, I wonder if Mongoose might allow me to put those up somewhere and save everyone a lot of trouble.

In a perfect world, Mongoose would just sell PODs on Mixam and we could all just order them. But I don't know how Mixam does outside the US. And I don't know if A5 would be an easier size to work with globally, since it's a metric size.

EDIT: Looks like the Classic Traveller LWB is 6×9, so that may be a better way to go.

 

[plazman30]

And here is a comparison of Digest Size, LBB and 6×9::

 

[Spinward Flow]

IMHO, the cover design is the significant "heavy lift" on making PODs out of PDFs. Since they don't really contain any rules or artwork, I wonder if Mongoose might allow me to put those up somewhere and save everyone a lot of trouble.

I would think that there might be a sideline opportunity here (where everybody wins).
This notion is of course assuming that all "players" in the publishing business want to work together to create the best outcome(s) for customers (which is not always the case, see: WotC for counter-example).

The way I'm thinking this would work is that, at some point, SOMEONE is going to have to come up with printable spec cover designs for ANY sort of LBB reprint/re-release endeavor by Mongoose. At that point, it becomes a question of "who can we get to do the work" for such an endeavor (and what sort of compensation would be necessary for doing such work).

The opportunity here is that if you ... @plazman30 ... are wanting to do the work ANYWAY, with or without the "blessing" of Mongoose for your own POD enjoyment, it would make sense (economically) for Mongoose to work WITH you, rather than AGAINST you, in ways that can produce "definitive" POD-ready and legally sanctioned book files. You and Mongoose work out some sort of revenue sharing arrangement where Mongoose hosts the completed POD layout files on their website along with links to known POD services (such as Mixam) who can provide a "near authentic reprint" (emphasis on "near" since you're never going to achieve "perfect") of the original run of LBBs in various listed countries.

The net result is an "everybody wins" type scenario.

• Mongoose retains the rights and controls the publication files for the CT books, but doesn't have to invest the capital necessary for physically publishing all of those books.
• You get a share of the revenue generated when people buy a copy of the publishing layout files (for a nominal fee that's low enough to discourage piracy, say $1-2 per book).
• CT "arises from the ashes of history" in a way that does not require warehousing, distribution channels or shelf stocking in brick 'n' mortar stores (see: POD), bringing more people into the fold as Referees, Players and enthusiasts in the many worlds of Traveller.

Of course, at that point, you need to start asking important questions like ... "how perfect of a reproduction are we talking about?" ... when it comes to re-publishing the LBBs. Because, as we all know, the original books had plenty of errata in them, and it would be a shame to perpetuate any of those errors for the sake of "purity" (or whatever). So a decision would need to be made as to whether any "fresh" prints would retain the errata or correct the (known and acknowledged) errata in order to create a more "seamless" and unified print run.

Which then brings up an opportunity, because this is a POD oriented deal.
You could do BOTH.

You could have the "pure" recreation of the originals (complete with unreformed errata, as originally printed) side-by-side with "updated" edited to eliminate errata versions of the same books. Just make sure to CLEARLY LABEL the differences for purposes of disambiguation. That then lets the customer decide which "version" of CT (errata corrections: no/yes) they want to have on their shelves (and the real fanatics will buy BOTH!).

 

[whartung]

And here is a list of the prep work I do to prepare a file for submission to a POD service.

Thanks for the detailed write up, that was really helpful.

It looks really good. And, yea, it looks like the LWB is 6x9, still seems a good size - just won't fit in the box anymore.

And $3.50 isn't bad at all.

 

[plazman30]

I would think that there might be a sideline opportunity here (where everybody wins).
This notion is of course assuming that all "players" in the publishing business want to work together to create the best outcome(s) for customers (which is not always the case, see: WotC for counter-example).

The way I'm thinking this would work is that, at some point, SOMEONE is going to have to come up with printable spec cover designs for ANY sort of LBB reprint/re-release endeavor by Mongoose. At that point, it becomes a question of "who can we get to do the work" for such an endeavor (and what sort of compensation would be necessary for doing such work).

The opportunity here is that if you ... @plazman30 ... are wanting to do the work ANYWAY, with or without the "blessing" of Mongoose for your own POD enjoyment, it would make sense (economically) for Mongoose to work WITH you, rather than AGAINST you, in ways that can produce "definitive" POD-ready and legally sanctioned book files. You and Mongoose work out some sort of revenue sharing arrangement where Mongoose hosts the completed POD layout files on their website along with links to known POD services (such as Mixam) who can provide a "near authentic reprint" (emphasis on "near" since you're never going to achieve "perfect") of the original run of LBBs in various listed countries.

The net result is an "everybody wins" type scenario.

• Mongoose retains the rights and controls the publication files for the CT books, but doesn't have to invest the capital necessary for physically publishing all of those books.
• You get a share of the revenue generated when people buy a copy of the publishing layout files (for a nominal fee that's low enough to discourage piracy, say $1-2 per book).
• CT "arises from the ashes of history" in a way that does not require warehousing, distribution channels or shelf stocking in brick 'n' mortar stores (see: POD), bringing more people into the fold as Referees, Players and enthusiasts in the many worlds of Traveller.

Of course, at that point, you need to start asking important questions like ... "how perfect of a reproduction are we talking about?" ... when it comes to re-publishing the LBBs. Because, as we all know, the original books had plenty of errata in them, and it would be a shame to perpetuate any of those errors for the sake of "purity" (or whatever). So a decision would need to be made as to whether any "fresh" prints would retain the errata or correct the (known and acknowledged) errata in order to create a more "seamless" and unified print run.

Which then brings up an opportunity, because this is a POD oriented deal.
You could do BOTH.

You could have the "pure" recreation of the originals (complete with unreformed errata, as originally printed) side-by-side with "updated" edited to eliminate errata versions of the same books. Just make sure to CLEARLY LABEL the differences for purposes of disambiguation. That then lets the customer decide which "version" of CT (errata corrections: no/yes) they want to have on their shelves (and the real fanatics will buy BOTH!).

I had mentioned something similar to another publisher. They could provide a "POD ready" download that you just upload to the service of your choice and print. But as you pointed out there are a few challenges.

It would be nice if errata got incorporated into the books. But to do that cleanly, you'd need to convert the book from a bunch of scanned pages to editable text. That's a pretty big undertaking for someone doing this in their spare time at home who has a wife and 2 kids. It also presents its own set of challenges, as the book would then "re-flow" onto another page or two. This may make the book too big to do a saddle stitch. Then we have font licensing: we would need to use free fonts or we'd have to pay an annual license fee for digital distribution of fonts.

The second issue is do we really need the LBBs recreated with errata? For one, we have the LWB. And The Traveller Book also exists as a PDF and a really nice POD (with dust jacket!). If we were going to do anything with books 4-8, wouldn't it make more sense to spend time to combine them into one book, maybe The Traveller Book Volume II, with all the errata, and make it the same size as the POD copy of The Traveller Book?

I get the nostalgia for the LBBs. But I think there would be a much bigger market for the Classic Travelle rules as a series of regular size rulebooks than a bunch of LBBs in 2025.

Making PODs of good quality scans of the LBBs, is not a lot of effort. But doing anything beyond that is significant work, and beyond the scope of what one middle-aged man with a full-time to do in his spare time. Like I said previously, I'm scanning in mercenary, because I am not thrilled with the scan of that book. But that is taking some time to do. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I'm going through the scanned image and remove any scanning artifacts I'm finding, which is not a light undertaking.

I think the right way to do this would be for Mongoose to think about a Traveller Book, Volume II, which would just be books 4-8 combined into one book with errata, and run a crowdfund for it to see interest. If that get funded, then someone could work on that full-time and probably get it done in 1/10 the time it would take someone like me to do it.

I'm doing this because I find doing this kind of stuff fun. But because I only answer to myself, I can walk away from it at any time. I take a long break and come back to it, or I can completely abandon it. If you're doing this for profit, then you suddenly have deadlines, and people getting pissed at you for missing deadlines.

I'm 54 now. When I retire in 11 years, I'll be looking for stuff like this to do to help pass the time.

Another thing I wonder about is the appeal. As an old-fart, rulebooks are like textbooks to me. I need clear concise rules, with a minimal amount of pictures and flavor text. I'm good with a black-and-white interior with black-and-white art. I actually prefer it.

But I think for people younger than myself, something like the Mongoose Traveller rulebook with it's full color interior may be way more appealing, especially if the price points are close.

 

[Spinward Flow]

But I think for people younger than myself, something like the Mongoose Traveller rulebook with it's full color interior may be way more appealing, especially if the price points are close.

This brings up a truism that applies to tabletop roleplaying games as well as online games (rpg, shooter, puzzle, platformer, etc.).

Eye candy gets you noticed.
But it's good gameplay that keeps people coming back.

Anyone paying attention to the computer gaming "space" will notice that there has been a ridiculously strong trend in recent years to REJECT the newest "eye watering" games with graphics that melt every GPU ... in favor of "older" games with "dated" graphics but with incredible gameplay and replay value. Retrogaming is on a tremendous upsurge, relative to the latest AAA SLOP that is being served up the a major studios today.

Perhaps the best indictment of the game studio mentality (that MONEY is ALL THAT MATTERS) was served up by none other than Viva La Dirt League just a few months ago.

One of my own personal catch phrases is, "It only HURTS because it's TRUE."
Therefore, the following video series by VLDL needs to come with a warning label ... for hitting too close to the mark ...

Anyway, that's a long winded way of saying that full color interior pages are "nice to have" ... but ultimately UNNECESSARY for a game to be GOOD and FUN to play, with lots of replay value to be found in it.

Pretty color pages and graphic images get you noticed ... but it's the "ease of use" with the rules and gameplay that will keep people coming back for more.

 

[plazman30]

I agree. But there is perceived value. The Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook costs $59.99. If you make a "The Traveller Book, Volume II" and make it a black and white hardback, I don't see anyone spending more than possibly $40.00 on it. The Traveller Book hardcover POD costs $20.00 + shipping on DriveThruRPG. But that was a "light lift" effort. Scan in The Traveller Book, do some minor touch-ups and send it off for a proof copy.

A Volume II would be more work, since you're combining a bunch of books into one and adding errata. That's basically a layout do-over and edit. Since I am not a publisher, I don't know what price point you'd need to sell that at to make a profit.

I like the idea of a Classic Traveller multi-volume set, perhaps 2 volumes for books 1-8, and then 2 volumes for supplements, and 1 volume for special supplements, and so on.

 

[aramis]

I agree. But there is perceived value. The Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook costs $59.99. If you make a "The Traveller Book, Volume II" and make it a black and white hardback, I don't see anyone spending more than possibly $40.00 on it. The Traveller Book hardcover POD costs $20.00 + shipping on DriveThruRPG. But that was a "light lift" effort. Scan in The Traveller Book, do some minor touch-ups and send it off for a proof copy.

A Volume II would be more work, since you're combining a bunch of books into one and adding errata. That's basically a layout do-over and edit. Since I am not a publisher, I don't know what price point you'd need to sell that at to make a profit.

I like the idea of a Classic Traveller multi-volume set, perhaps 2 volumes for books 1-8, and then 2 volumes for supplements, and 1 volume for special supplements, and so on.

CT could easily be redone as a series of letter sized: Combine the pages from TTB and Starter to get a proper correct full CT 3rd.
The Large Format had several announced products that never showed; the ones that did show were Spinward Marches Campaign, The Traveller Adventure, Alien Realms, and the Alien Modules 1-8. Note that SMC includes the rules materials from Sup 3 and Sup 4, and clearly was to be a replacement for them. SMC plus a re-layout of CT Bk 4-7 would be a great CTv3 Vol II... there's a LOT of skill overlap across those... kills much of the page count when you consolidate them.

 

[plazman30]

CT could easily be redone as a series of letter sized: Combine the pages from TTB and Starter to get a proper correct full CT 3rd.
The Large Format had several announced products that never showed; the ones that did show were Spinward Marches Campaign, The Traveller Adventure, Alien Realms, and the Alien Modules 1-8. Note that SMC includes the rules materials from Sup 3 and Sup 4, and clearly was to be a replacement for them. SMC plus a re-layout of CT Bk 4-7 would be a great CTv3 Vol II... there's a LOT of skill overlap across those... kills much of the page count when you consolidate them.

That sounds really cool, and I think might make a great fan project. I just wonder if it's a marketable product. I wonder how many people are still playing and would actively buy a book like this. I guess it depends on how well Book 9 - Pirate is selling.