TRAVELLER 5 - My Thoughts And Comments REDUX

[Supplement Four]

OK...still taking this slow, ingesting it. What have we learned so far?

Summary so far.





I'm running a character with Attribute-7 and Skill-6. Thus, my Fighting Number is 13.

I've got Tactics-4, so, at the start of a combat encounter, I add my EDU + Tactics to get a Tactics number of 11. Then, I roll 2D and subtract that sum from 11.

11 - 8 = 3.

For this encounter, I've got a Tactics modifier of +3. I can use it myself, or I can allow one of my comrades to use it as long as I can communicate with that character.





Walking down a street in Startown, I see a dude who didn't like me sleeping with his daughter during last game session. The dude's some type of religious fantatic. I see a gun in his hand.

The next thing I know, I've got my weapon pulled, and I'm firing at the old crazy.

GM says the range is Short. That's less than 50 meters (greater than 5 meters). That means all combat tasks are going to be made at a 2D difficulty.

Right now, my task to hit him is: 2D for (11 + 3) to hit him. I get the "+3" for my tactics skill, and I'll get that same modifier each time I fire in this combat encounter. 2D for 14 or less.

Therefore, my Fighting Number, for this encounter, is 14 (instead of the usual 11).





The target is walking towards me at Speed 1. I don't get a penalty because he's moving straight for me.

He's a man, Size 5. Range is 2. Thus, 5 - 2 = 3. I get a +3 mod while the target is at Short range.




Thus, if I just stand here and fire at him, using aimed fire, I'm rolling:

2D for 14 + 3 to hit. 2D for 17 or less.



My weapon is not fully automatic, so AutoFire is out of the question for me, but I can use SnapFire to squeeze off some shots as I move to the corner of the building, with the intention of using it for cover next round.

SnapFire means I can move at Speed 1 (Walk), but it also adds 2D to my difficulty.

Since he'll probably be able to hit me just as easily as I hit him, I'm going to move to cover, using this second option.

So, my task is:

4D for 17 or less. That's still an 84% chance of hitting him, and I'll be at cover at the start of next round.



I think the attack rules are pretty slick. Easy to use. I'll have them memorized quickly.

 

[Supplement Four]

So, if your stab is correct, Wally Martel First Baronet of Pecias, Permatic Imperium, 99A8Cc, Skills: Animals-0 (Riding)-1, Art (Sketch)-1, Driver-0 (Wheeled)-1, Engineer-2 (Power Plants)-2, Explosives-1, Fighting-6 (Unarmed)-2, Flyer-0 (Grav)-1, Hostile Environment-1, Language (Battle)-6, Leader-3, Mechanic-1, Medic-1, Stealth-2, Tactics-3

Has a Hand to Hand FN of 9 (dex) + 2 (unarmed knowledge)+6 (Fighting/fighter skill)= 17

Don't forget his Tactics bonus!

(5 + 3) - 2D.



EDIT: Also, don't forget, it's a one minute combat round. When two guys are fighting hand to hand, for an entire minute, it probably is a 100% chance that they'll lay blows on each other.

Damage, though, is completely a different matter.

 

[pendragonman]

Don't forget his Tactics bonus!

(5 + 3) - 2D.



EDIT: Also, don't forget, it's a one minute combat round. When two guys are fighting hand to hand, for an entire minute, it probably is a 100% chance that they'll lay blows on each other.

Damage, though, is completely a different matter.

I skipped Tactics because of my Tn already. On the other hand, my EDU is 12 not 5, so it should be 12+3-2d. More wicked still.

And if I keep using Hasty the opponent will never get to attack because I won't miss. p212 rh column near the bottom.

 

[Supplement Four]

DAMAGE.



Looks like damage in T5 is extremely close to the system used in CT. There are a couple of change, though.

Armor. In T5, Armor makes does not make you harder to hit, as it does in CT. In this game, Armor absorbs damage.

It's a simple mechanic. Each Armor type has an associated Armor Value. Simply subtract the AV from the total damage. If any damage is left over, then damage penetrates.

If armor is penetrated once, it is destroyed for the rest of the combat encounter.

Thus, Armor-10 would absorb 10 points of damage.



Protection. Protection is any type of protection that isn't armor. For example, if armor has Insulation-12, then the armor will absorb 12 points of Heat damage in addition to it's normal Armor Value. This is good if you are the target of a flame thrower.





Damage. This is thrown just like in CT. Weapons are rated for different types of damage. For example, a revolver that does damage of Bullet-1 will do 1D damage if hit is scored.

How do you apply damage?

NPCs. There's a special provison to help the GM. If damage to NPCs is 9 or less, then ignore it. If damage to NPCs is 10 or greater, then take them out of the fight.

The NPC may not be dead--but he is somehow rendered ineffective in the combat. Maybe he's suffering from a gunshot wound. Maybe he's unconscious. And, mayber he's dead.

This sounds like it's all GM color.





PCs. With PCs, damage is applied just like it is in Classic Traveller.

First Blood. The first hit the character suffers is summed and taken from a single physical stat, rolled randomly: STR, DEX, or END.

Subsequent Damage. Damage after the first hit is grouped into dice. For example, if the damage was 2D, then each die is taken singly. The player of the wounded character decides which stat he wants to lower (by the full amount of a die). The player keeps his character from falling unconscious by moving applying the dice of damage as best he can.



As in Classic Traveller:

Lowered stats, none at zero, means that the character has taken minor wounds.

One stat at zero means that the character is knocked unconscious for 10 minutes, thereafter treated as having minor wounds.

Two stats at zero is where damage becomes more than trivial and the character is considered to have taken a serious wound.

Three stats at zero means that the character is dead.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

No way.

As I recall, Chuck lost.

That is because he was not yet a Master, but a Student. But now he has his red lightsaber, too bad the Master Lee went and became one with the Force before they could rematch. Though my CrImps are still on Sifu Lee. :devil:

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

[Referee] Remind me...

I skipped Tactics because of my Tn already. On the other hand, my EDU is 12 not 5, so it should be 12+3-2d. More wicked still.

And if I keep using Hasty the opponent will never get to attack because I won't miss. p212 rh column near the bottom.

I should make sure to have the badguys only attack Wally with Ranged Attacks.

Man, I have to go and read Personal Combat again, because what I am seeing here is that Unarmed/Melee combat is bloody dangerous.

And what about that being the First Attacker gives the enemy a automatic +1 to hit you? Does that help stop the Hasty cheese?

 

[Supplement Four]

INITIATIVE.


The first rule of Initiative in T5 is common sense. If it's obvious which side or character has initiative, then they move and act first. No dice rolling needed.

If Initiative is contested, then there are a few ways to deal with this.

1. One side can just concede to give nish to the other side.

2. An Opposed Task can be thrown, first comparing Leadership skill, second comparing Tactics skill if Leadership is not present.

The rules seem to give the GM a wide latitude in decide who has the initiative. Characters or sides can also hold back and do nothing, giving up the initiative if they have it and don't want it.





First Attacker Penalty: There's also a penalty to going first, exposing oneself. Every round, the character who attacks first gives his enemies who attack him a +1 modifier on thier attack against him.

Thus, if you attack first, then everybody that attacks you in that round gets a +1 modifier to hit you.

In other words, you may take out an enemy quickly, but every other enemy will get a bonus to hit you that round.

The First Attacker can change each round.

 

[pendragonman]

I should make sure to have the badguys only attack Wally with Ranged Attacks.

Man, I have to go and read Personal Combat again, because what I am seeing here is that Unarmed/Melee combat is bloody dangerous.

And what about that being the First Attacker gives the enemy a automatic +1 to hit you? Does that help stop the Hasty cheese?

Nope, probably since hasty adds an entire die.

Let's look at my ranged.

9 (stat)+ 6 (fighting) + 3 (my worst possible tactics bonus)=18

I am assaulting a position 130 meters away (I.e. moving more or less straight at it) so no mod.

130 meters=3D

Man sized target =5 firing from cover = size 4. Size - range = +1

So, we have at this point 3d<19.

I again do hasty just because I don't have to dodge incoming fire if I suppress his ability to attack.

So we have 4d<19. 80% chance this guy is meat. Ranged won't save you either.

 

[Supplement Four]

First Attacker Penalty: There's also a penalty to going first, exposing oneself. Every round, the character who attacks first gives his enemies who attack him a +1 modifier on thier attack against him.

Thus, if you attack first, then everybody that attacks you in that round gets a +1 modifier to hit you.

In other words, you may take out an enemy quickly, but every other enemy will get a bonus to hit you that round.

The First Attacker can change each round.

It seems that the First Attacker also gets a pretty strong bonus, besides attacking first.

The rule says that if the attack made by the First Attacker is successful, then his target cannot also attack during that round. (Page 216).



My first question is: What is a successful attack? One that hits with the attack throw? One that hits but does not penetrate? One that penetrates?


Can't this sometimes lead to one character dominating a fight, never allowing his foe an attack?

 

[pendragonman]

It seems that the First Attacker also gets a pretty strong bonus, besides attacking first.

The rule says that if the attack made by the First Attacker is successful, then his target cannot also attack during that round. (Page 216).



My first question is: What is a successful attack? One that hits with the attack throw? One that hits but does not penetrate? One that penetrates?


Can't this sometimes lead to one character dominating a fight, never allowing his foe an attack?

That is less clear than hasty is. I wonder why?

 

[Supplement Four]

Combat Round Procedure.


I'm not sure I like the method put forth in the book for running a combat round. It's very similar to D6 Star Wars.

There are five phases to each combat round.

Phase 1. Situation. The characters may pull or change weapons during this phase, as they are evaluating the situation.

Phase 2. Target. Attackers indentify targets. This is like a declaration phase.

Phase 3. Attack. Combat throws are made.

Phase 4. Move. Movement is carried out.

Phase 5. Penetrate. Damage is rolled.





Here's what I don't like about this: The rules say that every combatant completes each phase before moving on to the next phase.

This means going around the table FIVE times during every combat round. First you go through to see if anybody wants to change weapons or ready some other equipment. Then you go through every PC and NPC to allow them to declare their targets.

Then, you go around the table a third time to make attack throws.

Then...you allow everybody to move.

And then...you go around the table again to roll damage. I especially don't like this because you've got to remember who hit who.




I don't have to play out that sequence to know that it will be a nightmare during a game, bogging down the session.

I'd be real curious to know about the T5 play tests using this combat round method.

This is the first part of the rules that I really dislike.

 

[Supplement Four]

Suppression Fire.

I do like that Suppression Fire rule, though. It's pretty neat.

When you use this rule, your weapon has to be capable of AutoFire, of course.

You really don't do anything with this rule except declare that your character is using suppression fire on the enemy. There are no rolls to make UNLESS the enemy makes an attack.

For every enemy that makes an attack, the character making the Supression Fire is allowed to attack them!



That really does "suppress" the other side from attacking, knowing that, if they make their attack, they will get an AutoFire attack against them.

Pretty neat.




Question to Investigate: If I wondered about ammo before, this rule really makes me wonder. How much ammo do you have to have to be able to attack every enemy that makes an attack? Sounds like a lot of ammo!

 

[pendragonman]

Really the "M" round is really "is anyone changing range bands?" so recalling who has damage to take should be easy.

There was one combat worked out in a thread somewhere. I can't remember...maybe done in the beta area though.

Also recall that with everything happening for everyone at once a combat round really ends up being one "scene" of combat. Remember episode 7 of "Band of Brothers"? The one where they assault Foy? That whole assault, up to where Spears comes in to take over the company would be one round. The next round would be the rest of that assault up to when Spears runs thru Foy to link up with the other company. The third round would be his run thru the town.

Three rounds of combat for an entire town assault.

 

[aramis]

[m;]S4's original post copied into this thread for continuity.[/m;]

 

[Supplement Four]

Really the "M" round is really "is anyone changing range bands?" so recalling who has damage to take should be easy.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems most cumbersome to me. Separating movement and action is kinda stilting when running a game. Separating move, action, and damage really sounds like a jerky, slow combat round.

A game flows when a player can say, "I run over here, duck around the corner, and snap off a couple of shots." And, on the character's turn, he does just that: Move, fire, damage if he hits.

This combat system, from what I'm reading, breaks all that up.

Player says, "I'm going to run over there...."

GM: "Hold it. Movement is always later in the round. You have to attack first, if that's what you're going to do."

Player: "Hm. That changes things. OK, I take a few snapshots, then I move...."

GM: "Roll your attack."

Player: rolls.

GM: "You hit!"

Player: "Great! I'll roll for damage."

GM: "Hold it. You fire your weapon. Now we've got to leave you and go around the table, one by one, and allow all the other PCs and NPCs to fire their weapons. The damage phase is last, after movement."

Player: "What!"

GM: "Yep."

Player: "What's my character doing? Just standing there?"

GM: "Yep. Combat is simultaneous within the phases."

Player: "Back to me, now? This is now the Movement Phase? Ok, I'll move to the corner and use it for half cover. Do I roll my damage now?"

GM: "Not yet. Everybody else gets to move first."

Player: "How is my target moving so fast! My shot may have crippled him!"

GM: "Well...er...it's simultaneous."

Player: "But...if I shot him in this Range Band....and he moves to another Range Band....shouldn't he either suffer the shot consequences first OR shouldn't I have had a harder task to hit him for the longer range?"

GM: "Crap, man. I don't know."

Player: "When the hell do we roll damage?"

GM: "Now that everybody's moved, we can do it now. We'll go around the table this last time and figure damage for everybody. Then, we'll start round two, and do this same awkward combat round again."





Unless I'm not understanding something, I'm having a real problem with the damage phase being placed after movement (and after the attack phase).

Damage should happen as soon as a character hits. Or, problems arise as I've illustrated above.

 

[atpollard]

The rule says that if the attack made by the First Attacker is successful, then his target cannot also attack during that round. (Page 216).

While this might make sense for a 6 second combat round (being shot tends to distract you), it seems odd for the basic premise of a 1 minute combat round with many actions during that round. IMO YMMV

 

[cuTTer]

So, if your stab is correct, Wally Martel First Baronet of Pecias, Permatic Imperium, 99A8Cc, Skills: Animals-0 (Riding)-1, Art (Sketch)-1, Driver-0 (Wheeled)-1, Engineer-2 (Power Plants)-2, Explosives-1, Fighting-6 (Unarmed)-2, Flyer-0 (Grav)-1, Hostile Environment-1, Language (Battle)-6, Leader-3, Mechanic-1, Medic-1, Stealth-2, Tactics-3

Has a Hand to Hand FN of 9 (dex) + 2 (unarmed knowledge)+6 (Fighting/fighter skill)= 17

and striking a Human (size 5) at vshort (1) range (since Wally is going with the roundhouse kick and not throwing something) gives me a mod of +4

Target is moving to contact (at Wally) so speed is irrelevant, but wants wants to use his kick so he go hasty (+1 die)

So net result is 2D<21 to hurt this guy. Plus, hasty stops the target's attack. Wicked.

The bonus here is this is (mostly) non-lethal. Easy for Wally to stop once the target is unconscious.

I can wrap my head around the rules for ranged combat but when things close into hand-to-hand I'm a bit lost. Is most H-t-H really rolled on 1D, the default 'range' band?

There are two brawl examples used in the T5 text, one on p.135 and one on p.158. Both are resolved on 3D and I don't understand why. (Come to think of it, one refers to a Brawling skill/knowledge, should that be Fighter/Unarmed?)

I'm also unsure how unarmed damage is calculated, p.260 suggests it's '=c1', so 7 hits for an average human, guaranteed as it were, with no random element?

As usual, any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jazzlvraz]

Come to think of it, one refers to a Brawling skill/knowledge, should that be Fighter/Unarmed?

p.135, two appearances, and you're right: drop it into the Errata thread.

 

[robject]

So theoretically, I could shoot Pluto from Earth with a really lucky shot?

No, but you could hit a satellite in low orbit.

However, you can't hit it with a Pistol. Each weapon has a maximum range.

 

[pendragonman]

My comment about M comes from the example I saw.


Mods or Don: is the combat example from Beta available to repost into this thread? Or do we still have access to it from the Beta posts?