The States of Glimmerdrift Reaches

[Enoki]

Meanwhile, on the other side, the Mische Conglomerate having shifted from primarily mining to food production is feeding all those worlds and making bank doing it.

Mische Conglomerate - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

The whole area around and within the Shukikikar League is one massive sea of intrigue, low-level warfare, terrorism, and general instability. Lots of fun for the Traveller player...

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

I was mostly referring to the lack of commercial shipyards. Any ship building at Lunber is by and for government use, and is, for the most part, a whopping TL9.

Hmm. Nishlishurkha, next to Lunber, sees a hundred-fold increase in population from 990 to 1105. That many people would still be lost in the round-off for Lunber, and too much for Nish to do on its own, so I suspect Lunber is dumping populace in a power play for the neighboring system, and the League keeps soaking them up like Groucho's Stateroom scene in A Night at the Opera. Perhaps Lunber was shipping people by the thousands as fast as they could build deathtrap... er, "colonial transports" and the League offered Nish membership to counter the population shuffle play. The peasants of Lunber think Nish is a prison colony, but the locals, with fairly high end fabrication tech and plenty of space, just kept building towns and filling them with "refugees".

But a LOT of TL 9.

I see that you’re using the 990 QLI population data in the Glimmerdrift from travellermap and building the story of how it changes over 115 years. I parsed all of the data for 990 and 1105 and stopped trying to bridge the differences when I saw there were numerous changes to the stellar data. Having read further I think stellar data was an update to the T5 rules, with minimal effect on the history

Looking at Crucis Margin, there are exponential swings in population that would drastically change the balance of power. The Old Worlds 990 Population 121.169 BN vis-à-vis* 1105 Population 3.762 BN.

Were different rules applied to different sectors for the 1105 update? Is the 990 data considered to be flawed, incorrect or incomplete in Crucis Margin, but more ~ correct in Glimmerdrift closer to the Imperium?

Or is there an explanation of the loss of Billions of sophonts between 990 and 1105 in Crucis Margin?

I’m just trying to get guidance on the “official” retcon so that perhaps my own retcon won’t be so far off the future baseline.

Further Examples:

The Raidermarch and New Sun Subsectors have a population of 238.261 BN in QLI 990 and 9.264 BN in OTU 1105.

Apologies for the change in data format, I gave up on 990 UWPs and the formats evolved as the analysis changed.

Travellermap 1105 data

World Name

SubSector

Hex

UWP

UWP Code

Bas​

Zn​

PBG​

Worlds​

Ally​

Habitants

Imp​

Econx​

Cultx​

Delta (Millions) v. 990​

Serir

E: Raidermarch

817​

D649799-7

Pi

-​

-​

710​

10​

NaHu​

70,000,000

{ -2 }​

(966-1)​

[8568]​

(69,930)​

Achmetha

F: NewSun

1215​

B426778-A

Pi

-​

-​

704​

11​

NaHu​

70,000,000

{ 2 }​

(D6B+2)​

[795A]​

(59,930)​

Masan

F: NewSun

1220​

D6558A5-6

Ga Pa Ph

-​

-​

413​

13​

NaHu​

400,000,000

{ -2 }​

(A75-4)​

[6634]​

(3,600)​

Gdynia

F: NewSun

1616​

A5238B8-C

Na Po Ph Pi Pz

K​

A​

800​

6​

OlWo​

800,000,000

{ 2 }​

(A7C+2)​

[8A5C]​

(59,200)​

Wroclaw

F: NewSun

1620​

B6A58C8-B

Fl Ph Pz

-​

A​

204​

16​

OlWo​

200,000,000

{ 2 }​

(E7C+2)​

[8A5B]​

(39,800)

1,540,000,000

​

Travellermap 990 data

Hex

Sub Sector

Name

UWP

Remarks

{Ix}

(Ex) RLI^E

[Cx]

N

B

Z

PBG

W

A

Inhabitants

817​

Raidermarch

Serir

D649A99-6

Hi In

1​

A97 -4

9B6A

-

-

-

710​

0​

Na

70,000,000,000

1215​

NewSun

Achmetha

B326A78-C

Hi In

5​

C9C -2

FF79

-

-

-

604​

0​

Na

60,000,000,000

1220​

NewSun

Masan

E6559A5-8

Hi

0​

98C +2

6987

-

-

-

413​

0​

Na

4,000,000,000

1616​

NewSun

Gdynia

A523AB8-E

Hi In Na

6​

69C +5

9G6D

-

N

-

600​

0​

Ow

60,000,000,000

1620​

NewSun

Wroclaw

B6A5AC8-C

Fl Hi

4​

B9C +2

8E8G

-

-

-

404​

0​

Ow

40,000,000,000

234,000,000,000

I have the data from the travellermap parsed, I can run a comparison or an analysis for you if that would be useful to your work on these sectors. I do not have AOTI parsed, relying on the travellermap. As I said, I gave up on 990 data when there appeared to be no correlation to 1105 data, and decided to retro modify the 1105 data.

Thank you for your work on this, I like the way you build on what’s there.

[SPOILER="vis-à-vis"] French for face-to-face, an expression my college advisor and mentor used frequently. Coincidentally his name is Mark Miller.[/SPOILER]

 

[Enoki]

If you go to the Traveller wiki, I have put in a lot of details (non-canon obviously) on many systems and most of the polities in the Glimmerdrift, as I see them. I tried to use canon material (albeit very vague and thin) as the basis for what I worked off of. There's quite a bit more detail that I added if you want to use it.

 

[GypsyComet]

The stellar type changes need to be propagated into other eras, as a lot of that adjustment is within the last 6 years or so while working with just the 1105 dataset. The 990 data is straight out of GtD and not yet adjusted for later thought.

Trying to bridge those era to era changes is part of the fun of sector development. The Mixed Client States region trailing from the Imperium is a WILD place, and having two data points a bit more than a century apart allows for history, wacky as it might be, to be written well beyond what the often terse (by necessity) published sources provide.

 

[GypsyComet]

By the way, I'm building a new Category in the wiki for each sector, as a way to find pages written for a sector that may not be easy to find otherwise. For Glimmerdrift (the second sector I'm doing this to) I've added the category tag to all 16 subsector pages, to (most of?) the native sophonts, and to most of the polities. I'm specifically NOT including the individual worlds, as that would dilute the Category page badly. Any thing for the sector that isn't easily slipped into a subsector or polity page (and thus easily lost). Companies, prior states, renown pirate bands, personalities, a Nobles list (for the Imperial areas), etc.

The goal is to make answering the question "What are people writing about here?" easier to answer. Look for the "Guidebook to Glimmerdrift Reaches Sector" category tag at the bottom of the those pages.

 

[GypsyComet]

Another divergence from published sources. The wiki describes the Grand Duchy of Stoner as wildly xenophobic and anti-Imperial. The adventure "Stoner Express" isn't nearly that extreme in its description.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Another divergence from published sources. The wiki describes the Grand Duchy of Stoner as wildly xenophobic and anti-Imperial. The adventure "Stoner Express" isn't nearly that extreme in its description.

Agreed, and I think Lunber might be a good candidate for the descriptive text. A garbled survey transmission that mis-matched the government description to the wrong worlds.

I'm also mulling the "Granicus Problem."

The so-called "Pirate's Paradise," its corrupt, faction–ridden government and out–of–the–way location make it the perfect base of operations for pirate cartels, whose criminal enterprises reach into Imperial space. The cartels are particularly blatant, sometimes operating in multi-ship bands to launch a planetary raid or to trap a particularly big prize.

• By 1050 Pirate elements had discovered the advantages that Granicus offers. In 1098 the Fallani Syndicate began operations out of Duval, triggering a subtle war between the Syndicate and the Khimirika League.

-https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Granicus_(world)

The GURPS pirate haven Granicus stats (Class V (A) Starport, 25 mm population (7), balkanized (7), don't match the 1105 (or 990) Granicus stats. However, neighboring Novae and nearby Thermon (in 1105) both have population 7 and have class A and B Starports, respectively. I would argue that any government can be balkanized, even if it's not apparent to outsiders. But the Feudal Technocracy (5) at Thermon would be an easier fit. So IMTU, the Corsairs of Thermon have cleverly misdirected the Cops to look for them on Granicus.

It's good material, and I prefer to creatively include the works of authors where possible, rather than exclude.

 

[GypsyComet]

The Granicus mismatch is odd, since Gateway to Destiny was old news by the time the GT World Books were written. I could see the syndicates of Granicus moving their more obvious piracy operations around a bit, so what is true circa 1120 (the Granicus book) may not be true in 1105 or 990. When the IISS came by they saw what the Syndicates wanted them to see...

Regarding the wiki, I'm trimming, with Thom's blessing, the excess sources that appear on many pages. Sector level sources belong on sector pages, but the sources of sector dotmaps don't really belong on the page of an individual world. So if you visit a page again and you're sure the Sources section used to be longer, that may be why.

 

[GypsyComet]

Agreed, and I think Lunber might be a good candidate for the descriptive text. A garbled survey transmission that mis-matched the government description to the wrong worlds.

A psionic state that close to the Imperial border would likely get a Red Zone instead of Amber, but if they aren't blatant about that it might have been missed. Lunber does have the right UWP for a xenophobic anti-Imperial world state, though.

Since the Judges Guild subsector names were retained, I'd like to figure out how to work some of that in, even if the specifics of the JG versions (*everything else*) has been expressly de-Canonized.
For the two subsectors I started this discussion with:
The explanation for Tri-Empire Subsector can be retained simply because it is extremely vague: at some point in the distant past, three empires converged or were present in that subsector. With most of the history we know for the area starting in the 400s or so, but this area being close to the border of all three Imperia, that snippet is dead easy to place in the distant and poorly documented past.
Marla Subsector, so named for a modern state in the JG version (the Marlan Primate), can also have that factoid shoved into the past. There is no world by that name even in the JG version, so one of the three Empires referred to for the other subsector could have been some sort of charismatic religious state, and you can find their ruins and artifacts in Marla Subsector. Many of the worlds have architecturally distinct ruins identified as Marlan, and the subsector name stuck. Of course, the idea that the Marlans were one of the three empires may also be a red herring. They might have risen from the ashes of one of them, or been there before them.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Since the Judges Guild subsector names were retained, I'd like to figure out how to work some of that in, even if the specifics of the JG versions (*everything else*) has been expressly de-Canonized.
For the two subsectors I started this discussion with:
The explanation for Tri-Empire Subsector can be retained simply because it is extremely vague: at some point in the distant past, three empires converged or were present in that subsector. With most of the history we know for the area starting in the 400s or so, but this area being close to the border of all three Imperia, that snippet is dead easy to place in the distant and poorly documented past.
Marla Subsector, so named for a modern state in the JG version (the Marlan Primate), can also have that factoid shoved into the past. There is no world by that name even in the JG version, so one of the three Empires referred to for the other subsector could have been some sort of charismatic religious state, and you can find their ruins and artifacts in Marla Subsector. Many of the worlds have architecturally distinct ruins identified as Marlan, and the subsector name stuck. Of course, the idea that the Marlans were one of the three empires may also be a red herring. They might have risen from the ashes of one of them, or been there before them.

I picked Kraxin because, well Krax is obviously JG material.

Bohemia, Dacia, Suebi (Suevi) are names of regions in central Europe, that long survived the peoples, and the kingdoms they founded.

Kraxin – Appears to be named for Apocraphya KRAX (JG:1120 / 1105 non-existent). The Krax Confederation formed 612-614, regions settled during the First Imperium as a exile colony. During the period 700 – 800 the Krax Confederation limited technological degeneration. As the Imperium expanded after 900, the polity became more unified. Imperial policy changed to be less expansionist to encourage development of buffer states. - JG Glimmerdrift Reaches p.4

It’s a good narrative but the wrong time frame. The Kraxian Confederation, named for a world formerly called Krax or for a leader, a religious or social movement, a corporation or some other historical reference, could have been an historical entity during the long night, formed circa -1614. (Amazing how typos carry down through history).

The Kraxin Confederation occupied parts of the Kraxin, Poonch, Even, Williamsburg and Sosie Subsector during its ascendance in the Long Night. The Kraxin are remembered as the keepers of the clocks, those who held back the long night for as long as they could. But in the end darkness won, and the memories of those who fought to save civilization are just names in the stars.

To illustrate activity on the border of the Imperium, I referred to McKinney Integrated Timeline:

circa -1700 Human settlements scatter across the Gateway Domain. The first colonies in the Gateway Sector are likely on Tharver (0528), Bremen (1818) and Salur (0921). Gateway to Destiny, QLI, 2004, p. 11.
circa -1550 The last jump-capable ship in the Matarishan Federation in Ley Sector breaks down. Gateway to Destiny, QLI, 2004, p. 11.

 

[GypsyComet]

I picked Kraxin because, well Krax is obviously JG material.

Bohemia, Dacia, Suebi (Suevi) are names of regions in central Europe, that long survived the peoples, and the kingdoms they founded.

All sixteen subsector names were retained from JG materials. As far as I can tell nothing else was kept when the QLI work was done. The wiki has since dragged a few things out of retirement, like the Hawklings and a small handful of coincident world names. Those are flagged as non-Canon, but it is worth remembering that Canon is for writers.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Since the Judges Guild subsector names were retained, I'd like to figure out how to work some of that in, even if the specifics of the JG versions (*everything else*) has been expressly de-Canonized.
For the two subsectors I started this discussion with:
The explanation for Tri-Empire Subsector can be retained simply because it is extremely vague: at some point in the distant past, three empires converged or were present in that subsector. With most of the history we know for the area starting in the 400s or so, but this area being close to the border of all three Imperia, that snippet is dead easy to place in the distant and poorly documented past.
Marla Subsector, so named for a modern state in the JG version (the Marlan Primate), can also have that factoid shoved into the past. There is no world by that name even in the JG version, so one of the three Empires referred to for the other subsector could have been some sort of charismatic religious state, and you can find their ruins and artifacts in Marla Subsector. Many of the worlds have architecturally distinct ruins identified as Marlan, and the subsector name stuck. Of course, the idea that the Marlans were one of the three empires may also be a red herring. They might have risen from the ashes of one of them, or been there before them.

I read this as you're working to write a back story for the JG legacy named subsectors. I like to use existing material and fit it into the OTU, where possible. By redating some of the JG non-Canon material, portions can be gently slipped into the Canonical narrative, like easter eggs.
Worth pursuing, or write from scratch?

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

A couple of quicks, Williamsburg, Thorstone, Zairae and Tasman (bastardized Zaire and Tasmania respectively) all sound like they could have been Terran starship names, perhaps the original colony ships that explored those subsectors. Too easy?

 

[GypsyComet]

Easter egg is about the level I'm thinking of, and only if it makes sense. Even the JG materials often didn't make much of the subsector names, so I see no need to stretch to make JG material fit if it doesn't already.

To help inform migration and traffic patterns, I've done a Jump2 Voids map for Glimmerdrift, as J2 is the maximum most commerce is at, and is about the max any Long Night colonization would have had access to. Any space that is more than J2 across gets colored in, so the J2 routes tend to jump out at the viewer. If more than one hex exists to create a J2 run, I favor the one with the most connections (the goal is to show that a connection exists, not to document every hex that might connect). Errors are possible around the edges, since this was a sector pull from the Poster Maker, and not a screen grab that includes adjacent sectors.
You can immediately see some systems become more important for their location than their contents.

 

[GypsyComet]

Scanning the JG version of the sector, we get little snips at best. I've mentioned Tri-Empire and Marla already.
Thorstone has basically nothing.
"The Williamsburg Subsector has been the scene of intense commercial and political rivalry in the past."
"This area (Tasman Subsector) was primarily occupied and developed during the previous peaceful expansion."
"The Even Subdector is prlrnarlly occupled by the Krax Confederation. The area of three contended planets in the Spinward Rim edge was conceded to the Imperium in exchange for commercial and technical assistance."
"This area (Sosie Subsector) has been the scene of several recent clashes over the resources of undeveloped planets."
Zairae just has some recent political notes that are not particularly useful.

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Easter egg is about the level I'm thinking of, and only if it makes sense. Even the JG materials often didn't make much of the subsector names, so I see no need to stretch to make JG material fit if it doesn't already.

To help inform migration and traffic patterns, I've done a Jump2 Voids map for Glimmerdrift, as J2 is the maximum most commerce is at, and is about the max any Long Night colonization would have had access to. Any space that is more than J2 across gets colored in, so the J2 routes tend to jump out at the viewer. If more than one hex exists to create a J2 run, I favor the one with the most connections (the goal is to show that a connection exists, not to document every hex that might connect). Errors are possible around the edges, since this was a sector pull from the Poster Maker, and not a screen grab that includes adjacent sectors.
You can immediately see some systems become more important for their location than their contents.

You are in a maze of twisty passages all alike... Thanks - that's very useful, what software did you use to color the hexes?

One of the first things that I noticed in the Gateway Sector, not just GR, is there's a lot of "you can't get there from here... in less than three months" Another observation was that most of the source material focuses on Political Entities of more than one world, and no one talks about individual worlds like Sheridan which, as a single system, has a population of 60 BN vs the Federation of Heron < 1 BN, or Lunber population 60 BN.

I feel like they should have their own polity pages in the Wiki. May I try to add a shell for them?

 

[GypsyComet]

no one talks about individual worlds like Sheridan which, as a single system, has a population of 60 BN vs the Federation of Heron < 1 BN, or Lunber population 60 BN.

I feel like they should have their own polity pages in the Wiki. May I try to add a shell for them?

That sort of thing usually uses the "world" page style instead of separating the world from its politics. There are some heavily sub-divided pages within the World format that might shape your writing.

I just did some basics to the existing page for Lunber, as it was all incorrect template parts. Lunber is a fairly friendly ecosystem based on its physical UWP, so native life, probably thoroughly tamed if non-sentient and supressed if sentient, seems likely. There could literally be native sophonts making up 1% of the population (a Pop 8 by themselves) and outsiders might have no clue they're there. Heck, the Lunberites might not know they're there.

As for the Voids map, I'm just using a paint style program and hand filling the Dot Map output from Traveller Map's Poster Maker, since my algorithm is not necessarily simple. I can already see a couple spots I missed, but they don't change the associations so I'm not in a hurry to revise.

Gateway Sector has a pretty thin stellar density and nothing that rises to the level of a proper Main. Glimmerdrift is slightly denser, but not by very much.

The voids map for Glimmerdrift makes the political neighborhoods of the sector quite apparent. Shukikikar is really in its own little bubble, with a connection to the Imperium at one end and to the GlimFed at the other (and Mische in CruMar off to trailing). Stoner really only has the Imperium as a close neighbor; everyone else requires specialized transport (ie. j3 or higher) or a real haul through "neutral" systems. Heron and Gamma really only have each other and the Imperium close (and the Anubian Trade Coalition in Hinterworlds). Nine Worlds has neighbors outside the sector, but only the GlimFed is close within the sector, which they are probably not happy about, since they were looking at the GlimFed's predecessor with imperialistic thoughts only a century ago. Now the GlimFed is *much* larger and probably not at all happy about sharing a j1 link to Nine Worlds.

 

[GypsyComet]

Two polities show up on the sector list with no published sources:
The Slovenian Protectorate is part of Enoki's history of Beta Quadrant (Shukikikar et al.)
The Tripartite Alliance is sourceless. Is it another name for the Protectorate?

 

[Hairy Jim DeGriz]

Two polities show up on the sector list with no published sources:
The Slovenian Protectorate is part of Enoki's history of Beta Quadrant (Shukikikar et al.)
The Tripartite Alliance is sourceless. Is it another name for the Protectorate?

I just got here, so I'm looking at everything with noob eyes, in the context of the setting I'm working on, which is along the lines of what you're doing, so I'm going to keep pitching:

The Militarization of the Kraxin, Williamsburg and Tri-Empire Subsectors.
Any thoughts on who went on a military / naval base spending spree around the Williamsburg Sub during or after the Solomani Rim War? There are 6 new “naval bases” between 990 and 1105 and 12 new “military bases.” These are not all home grown facilities based on the populations and tech levels, but look more akin to an Okinawa or Subic Bay type of leased facility for an external power.

Is this something that will get changed during review? Naval Base removed due to insufficient population? Or will there be a story explaining these?

Also, not sure if this is on your radar, Idam Lee has become the colonial ruler of Lunarmise, 569-519 and 519-036 between 990 and 1105. Not sure if that warrants the declaration of a new interstellar political entity, or if they’re just friends with benefits?

None of these worlds had Naval or Military Bases in 990 (Travellermap data). Below is 1105 data.

ea0002_print.indd

World Name	SubSector	Hex	UWP	UWP Code	Bas​	Zn​	PBG​	Worlds​	Ally​	Habitants	Delta 990 – 1105 Notes
Saga's End	Tri-Empire	2209​	B571845-9	He Ph Pi	KM​	-​	914​	17​	NaHu​	900,000,000	990: Star C
519-036	Tri-Empire	2210​	B5A1568-8	Fl He Ni Da O:2410	M​	A​	700​	12​	NaHu​	700,000	990: Pop 1mm, Gov 1
Ir	Tri-Empire	2407​	B697733-7	Ag Pi	M​	-​	812​	13​	NaHu​	80,000,000	990: TL 6
Idam Lee	Tri-Empire	2410​	A4108C9-E	Na Ph Pi Pz	KM​	A​	604​	11​	NaHu​	600,000,000	990: Gov 4
Irda	Kraxin	1013​	B4238BA-7	Na Po Ph Pi Pz	M​	A​	500​	9​	NaHu​	500,000,000	990: Member GdSt
534-817	Kraxin	1417​	B642100-C	He Lo Po	KM​	-​	305​	15​	NaHu​	30	990: Atm A, Pop 10
Gurgaliinash	Kraxin	1613​	B672657-6	He Ni	M​	-​	504​	7​	NaHu​	5,000,000	990: Star C, Pop 70mm, Law 6
Anish Ishas	Williamsburg	1715​	B7656BA-8	Ag Ni Ga Ri Da	M​	A​	400​	8​	NaHu​	4,000,000	990: Pop 2mm, Gov 6, O:TBD, Law 8
Akhag	Williamsburg	1718​	A624559-C	Ni	KM​	-​	814​	12​	NaHu​	800,000	990: Pop 600k,
Wideocean	Williamsburg	1816​	B98A520-9	Ni Wa Pr	KM​	-​	100​	12​	NaHu​	100,000	990: Pop 3mm, TL 8, see QLI EPIC 2
Bartle	Williamsburg	2117​	B64A634-8	Ni Wa	M​	-​	302​	12​	NaHu​	3,000,000	990: Star C, Pop 6mm, TL 9,
Sea of Light	Williamsburg	2118​	B567356-8	Lo	M​	-​	503​	11​	NaHu​	5,000	No Changes (+Base)
Shuriken	Williamsburg	2212​	A300668-A	Na Ni Va O:2215	KM​	-​	204​	10​	NaHu​	2,000,000	990: Pop 900k, O:TBD

Here's the visual

 

[GypsyComet]

Stoner's considerable border shift is another tale to tell.