The Free Trader Benefit

[jawillroy]

Okay, I know the CT basic text like the back of my hand: First benefit gives you the ship with a 40 year mortgage; subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off.

Now, supposing you roll the benefit twice. That's 10 years your ship's been in service. Wouldn't it be armed? Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? I don't see a ship surviving ten years of service, OTU or otherwise without packing some kind of heat.

Those ten years of payments add up to eighteen and a half million credits and change.

Do you think it would be reasonable to allow a PC to cash some of that in for ship's weapons and programming?

For that matter, if you totaled up the down payment and those ten years payments and deliver them as cash, you get just short of 26mcr. Might it be reasonable to allow that as an architect's fee & down payment on a better ship?

How have you-all handled this? Speaking as a longtime solitaire player and GM who has occasionally had RL players, but not nearly enough to run into this problem short of just giving them a brace of pulse lasers...

I await all agog.

 

[far-trader]

I'm hitting the road in a few or I'd hunt up my previous proclamations on this for you. It's either here on CotI or some other Traveller forum. I'll post links or my take when I get back this weekend.

 

[jawillroy]

Thanks! I glanced 'round here before I posted, but it's a needle in a haystack and I clearly missed it. Safe travels!

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Because I can...

Well, my reading of Supplement Four: CotI (the book, not the being we know) the Pirate, Belter and Noble just get a Starship.

Free and Clear...sorta....still have Fuel, LS, Salaries, Miscellaneous Expenses. Why do I say that, not just because I have one coming but because the Scientist can get a Lab Ship and it clearly states that it, like a IISS Type-S Muster belongs to the Patron Organization and comes with duties, and the basic expenses.

Now, again but this time I speak as Referee and Player.

The Ship should be large enough to hold the Crew (the Party) and Passengers (NPCs) and let them defend themselves with in the Limits of the Master's Social and Standing and the Precedents of Imperial Law.

But that's just me, I think all Nobles should be stuck...I mean get a Fief and let some folks just be rich if they want, but if you want to Play the Moot game, well, here ya go...:devil: Now keeps the Imperium Safe from Harm.

 

[rust]

In my setting free traders are somewhat rare. Each of them has a name and
a short background history, and they are only sold when the owner has up-
graded to a bigger or newer ship, has retired - or died.

Therefore all used free traders for sale in my setting are armed, although of-
ten with outdated missile racks, have all the software required for operating
in their region, cargo handling equipment, and so on.

On the other hand, all of them have their unique quirks. These may be tech-
nical ones (after some repairs the airlock opens only when the light in the
galley is turned off ...) or "social" ones (the previous owner forgot about
some debts he has on Ahn Doa ...).

So, each ship is unique, with unique advantages and disadvantages (including
business contacts and reputations on the planets of the setting's region). To
find out about them is the first task of characters planning to buy a ship.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

The Work is never done...

Once again I feel I am going to have to put this in the Personal AAB, rust your ideas rock there, must be cool....shopping for the Starship is part of Muster....oh, yes great fun....

"Sorry guys and gals....*sighs* and vargr...but Argu has been bought two days ago.....your Broker tells you he reaaalllly tried to hold on to it but you weren't here..." *hunkers down in bunker and preps for 'Incoming!'*

 

[CosmicGamer]

Okay, I know the CT basic text like the back of my hand: First benefit gives you the ship with a 40 year mortgage; subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off.

Now, supposing you roll the benefit twice. That's 10 years your ship's been in service. Wouldn't it be armed? Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? I don't see a ship surviving ten years of service, OTU or otherwise without packing some kind of heat.

I don't know the CT basic text well and I'm just going by what you stated.

subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off

Not your ship has been in service 10 years, has all kinds of damage and systems about to give out, and can barely fly at half its normal maneuver and jump rating. And not 10 years of service spending the entire time in the ship yards upgrading all systems. They are possibilities.

So your question: Wouldn't it be armed? A: possibly, possibly not. Q:Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? A: possibly, possibly not. Not too helpful, I'm sorry. Depending on where a ship flies, there may be no need for wasting money on weaponry or advanced computers and systems. Not every ship flies into dangerous territory.

The ship could be 60 years old, just new to your character? Does CT state? Could the reduced mortgage represent the character receiving an older and more damaged ship?

Any reason the 10 years of the mortgage being paid off couldn't be done in one lump sum? The ship could still be brand new? The reduced mortgage could be obtained via contacts, credit rating, savings and favors accumulated by the character during their career and "cashed in" when mustering out.

You could create a table to roll on for determining possible problems or upgrades that a used ship might have.

(I won't say where some of these non original ideas come from because I'd probably start a war and get shot)

 

[jawillroy]

In my setting free traders are somewhat rare.

The thing is, when I try to come up with inexpensive and versatile ship designs that can virtually guarantee that their payments will be made, I keep coming up with a Type A... so IMTU they're relatively common. Relatively, because ships aren't all that thick on the ground: My primary empire is a little larger than a subsector, and I've guessed it has a commercial starship population of one or two thousand. so I agree that almost every ship's going to have individual quirks, histories, reputations, and so on. It makes sense, then, that you should just wave in a basic arms package... but going by what you say, it's good to limit it pretty severely.

 

[jawillroy]

Now your ship has been in service 10 years, has all kinds of damage and systems about to give out, and can barely fly at half its normal maneuver and jump rating. And not 10 years of service spending the entire time in the ship yards upgrading all systems. They are possibilities.

LBB1 and 2 are pretty explicit that a ship with the 40 years paid off would be 40 years old, but I think that's a little overly limited. It's perfectly possible - especially if you get lucky in speculation - to pay off huge chunks of that 40 year hitch in a few years of scamming. So it might not be that old.

CT never did go into much detail on how ships age, but I always figured that keeping up on annual maintenance resulted in a constant replacement of Them Things What Go Bad, so ships IMTU have tended to be pretty robust. If I wanted to be persnickety about a ship's age, I suppose I'd add to the chance of a ship's drives and other systems failing, but I don't think I'd have a ship plinking along at .5G. And halving a J-1 ship's jump capability makes for a pretty short game...

I've often figured that a new captain of a Free Trader might have been the old captain's first officer, who bought into the ship's company and ended up being able to buy the Old Man's interest in the ship when he cashed in his chips, but more often than not I'd treat it as a new ship if he didn't get extra instances of the benefit.

 

[jawillroy]

Well, my reading of Supplement Four: CotI (the book, not the being we know) the Pirate, Belter and Noble just get a Starship.

Free and Clear...sorta...

Yep. Sorta. They all have some sort of limits - some of 'em are regular millstones.

 

[rust]

It makes sense, then, that you should just wave in a basic arms package... but going by what you say, it's good to limit it pretty severely.

It depends on the setting, I think. In my Demara Sector the Free Traders'
Union (which also has the lowest insurance rates ...) required all free traders
to be armed when a regional conflict in a neighbouring region caused an in-
crease in cross-regional piracy. The ships on the safest, navy-controlled tra-
de routes usually installed a single missile rack, the ships visiting the remote
colonies near the border installed as many weapons as their hardpoints would
allow - and some ships which were not registered with the Union simply ig-
nored the Union's regulations and remained unarmed.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

My two thoughts...which is worth more than crimps 0.02....

1) It's your TU...BEING UP! and make a decision. now for the real thought.

2) I am tired.....

3) I will have to check up on Imperial Rules of Conduct and Arms......

4) I might even hit the stacks and see what I can swipe...I mean lift....ummm. What I meant to say Officer was use...yes I meant use....and when I get it i will slowly massage it's neck and shoulders subtly applying pressure to the major circulatory system...sloww and easy....mmmm, feels goood doesn't it......mmmm nice and relaxed....the finest zhodane relaxation techniques....mmmm....and if get too uppity.....i'll choke it till it passes out and behaves.....*looks up, looks down at hands......looks at Imperial Canon Enforcement Agents* ummmmit'snotwhatitlookedlikeitaskedforititlikesit....NNOOOO NOT THE Gassss....[IMPERIAL MINISTRY OF HEALTH: The subject has control issues and mght have mild sociopathic canon tendencies....it's loyalty to canon may be in question, recommend further treatment and observation with other subjects in Experimental Group ^]

5) My inboxed just pinged me....grrrrr.....no need sleep....

 

[jawillroy]

It depends on the setting, I think.

Entirely - IMTU there are stretches where a Free Trader can basically print money by milk-running back and forth between a couple of moderately populous, civilized, safe worlds. A ship like that might keep a couple of hydroponic herb gardens and a wine fridge in the ventral fire control space, and use the dorsal hardpoint as a kennel for the Owner-Aboard's Kid's Pet.

But my frontier worlds? You can't count on that kind of security. It's a lot more rough and tumble, and there's merchant captains who won't think twice about winging you if they think you're cutting into their patch. Ships there really have to go armed.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

*coughs into fist* Urmmmpphhrrrruummm..

Entirely - IMTU there are stretches where a Free Trader can basically print money by milk-running back and forth between a couple of moderately populous, civilized, safe worlds. A ship like that might keep a couple of hydroponic herb gardens and a wine fridge in the ventral fire control space, and use the dorsal hardpoint as a kennel for the Owner-Aboard's Kid's Pet.

But my frontier worlds? You can't count on that kind of security. It's a lot more rough and tumble, and there's merchant captains who won't think twice about winging you if they think you're cutting into their patch. Ships there really have to go armed.

Gentlebeings.....If you are in the Marches, and need a level of protection....I so really want to plug here.....well, as IIRC canon art often shows Type-As with the hardpoint mounting a turret of some kind...remember accept no substitutes always demand the Triple Threat Turret...LASER, Missile and Sandcaster....seriously.

So far most of what I see here is pretty cool and mostly jibes....it's a good meme....*pets meme gently and walks away meme making happy thoughts*

 

[Gadrin]

Okay, I know the CT basic text like the back of my hand: First benefit gives you the ship with a 40 year mortgage; subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off.

Now, supposing you roll the benefit twice. That's 10 years your ship's been in service. Wouldn't it be armed? Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? I don't see a ship surviving ten years of service, OTU or otherwise without packing some kind of heat.

Those ten years of payments add up to eighteen and a half million credits and change.

Do you think it would be reasonable to allow a PC to cash some of that in for ship's weapons and programming?

For that matter, if you totaled up the down payment and those ten years payments and deliver them as cash, you get just short of 26mcr. Might it be reasonable to allow that as an architect's fee & down payment on a better ship?

How have you-all handled this? Speaking as a longtime solitaire player and GM who has occasionally had RL players, but not nearly enough to run into this problem short of just giving them a brace of pulse lasers...

I await all agog.

< slap to de-gog the agogged, gogger >

Well, what can you dream up ?

Where is the ship located (homeworld) ? Has it been sitting on Crazy Luuiigar's Used Starship lot ? Was it in use ? Has Crazy Luuiigar used it for parts to make a quicker/bigger/nicer sale for a Subsidized Merchant that the mega-corp needed suddenly ? ( the cabins have cots in them and the comp terminals in the staterooms are actually dummies). The water connections on the port side rooms don't work because they were capped off to make the starboard ones work (they're the "showrooms").

Maybe the aft is still a little bit radioactive, after that engineering accident the last owner had. No need to worry, just make sure you have that 35 lbs Rad-suit and safety-mask on when you go thru the tool-room next to engineering...

Okay, I'm being a little too outrageous, but short answer is, probably "yes" your ship should be in more-or-less workable condition, but it might do to have a few things wrong with it.

"Skipper we forgot to check the crawl space between the 3rd and 4th staterooms, apparently a homeless guy is currently using it for a..."


>

 

[jawillroy]

1) It's your TU...BEING UP! and make a decision. now for the real thought.

I'm inclined to use go this way:
1st receipt of the Free Trader = possession of a mortgaged type A, or ship of comparable performance and cost (when reduced by standardization discount) to a free trader. (Allowing for variations in staterooms, and fuel tonnage without being too much of a gimmie)

Subsequent receipts of the benefit = either
a) 10 years payments for the free trader (or variant) or
b) a fraction thereof paid off, with the remainder available for the ship's weapons/program package
c) the value of the 10 years payments for a free trader can be added to the down payment for the same: thus MCr 25.956 to be applied to the architect's fees, down payment (and perhaps a few ship's weapons and programs) for a ship budgeted for not more than MCr 128.495 (or maybe just rounding down those numbers a bit so it isn't so persnickety.)

 

[jawillroy]

Has it been sitting on Crazy Luuiigar's Used Starship lot ? Was it in use ? Has Crazy Luuiigar used it for parts to make a quicker/bigger/nicer sale for a Subsidized Merchant that the mega-corp needed suddenly ? ( the cabins have cots in them and the comp terminals in the staterooms are actually dummies).

I think there'll be used starships, certainly. But I also think that, IMTU anyhow, if a ship is being sold it's not going to be like getting sold a Buick. Even with a lowly Free Trader, we're still talking about twenty five and thirty five million credits (more than double that with financing!) It's the ships that get passed along while in service that might feel a little lived-in, the ones where First Officer Clampett started ninety percent of his pay into the ship's profit-sharing plan, so by the time Captain Jamieson had his fifth stroke Clampett had enough to buy the Old Man out and set him up on that leisure planet he's been getting brochures from ...

 

[sabredog]

It depends on the setting, I think.

IMTU some subsectors, and routes, are safer than others - but in all cases whether you arm your ship or not is up to you. The economic impact of the turrets and weapons, the gunner salaries, loss of revenue from gunner staterooms, etc., means that the captains running along the safer routes don't bother. Not to mention having the increased chance of damage to the ship (and crew) if you resist just giving up your cargo.

But a lot of the between places you need to go through to get to the more lucrative and safer (read:better patrolled) routes are areas you'd have to be nuts to go through without escort or weapons.

But in all cases, lasers and sandcasters are the average weapons and don't draw any particular scrutiny from the authorities. The Naval forces even view lasers as more of a defensive weapon anyway - best used as small boat and missile point defense weapon. But then they get to carry the big turret bay weapons.

Missiles are ok for civilians, but might get you extra attention from local law enforcement. Missile racks just seem so aggressive for a Free trader you see. It’s like having a gun rack in your pickup but instead of a shotgun or hunting rifle you have an AK-47 – it’s not exactly illegal but it raises eyebrows and scares the locals.

 

[Gadrin]

if a ship is being sold it's not going to be like getting sold a Buick.

Well with regards to Traveller I think I've seen several of those comic/drawings with "Crazy somebody" selling something.

But yes starships are essentially marvels of engineering and science, minus some of the descriptions of Sword World ships in 101 Starships from BITS.



>

 

[jawillroy]

IMTU some subsectors, and routes, are safer than others - but in all cases whether you arm your ship or not is up to you.

Well, certainly. The question is, how much and when - if it's a brand new ship and you're fresh out of scratch, well, then good luck out there until you can raise a few credits. But if you have a partially paid ship it doesn't make much sense to me for the computer to have nothing but its basic package, and nada on the hardpoints. I'm just putting it out there to see what other folks have done...