The Free Trader Benefit

[jawillroy]

Well with regards to Traveller I think I've seen several of those comic/drawings with "Crazy somebody" selling something.

But yes starships are essentially marvels of engineering and science, minus some of the descriptions of Sword World ships in 101 Starships from BITS.

There's a lot of the OTU which conspires to make owning and operating a small starship feel like owning a '77 Pinto, especially once you get High Guard going and nothing out there smaller than 10ktons is worth considering. I think Star Wars & the Millennium Falcon have a lot to answer for here, too: the romance of the Jalopy Starship.

"Crazy somebody"

"Battle damage? Bring your battle crusier to Crazy Eddie's Universal Repair! We fix absolutely everything to fit your precise needs and physiognomy. We accept no major credit cards or currency but will gladly accept your uninhabited planets as payment. Crazy Eddie's: Today the Mote, Tomorrow the UNIVERSE."

 

[rust]

Missiles are ok for civilians, but might get you extra attention from local law enforcement. Missile racks just seem so aggressive for a Free trader you see. It’s like having a gun rack in your pickup but instead of a shotgun or hunting rifle you have an AK-47 – it’s not exactly illegal but it raises eyebrows and scares the locals.

Yes, I agree. However, in my setting most of the pirates were in fact small
warships of local navies. Their war had been lost, but they did not want to
surrender, and so they turned to piracy and to raiding small colonies. Their
ships were all they owned, and without shipyards for major repairs they usu-
ally could not risk any serious damage to their ships - and missiles can deal
out just such serious damage ...

So this is why my setting's free traders preferred missiles, in another setting
the choice of weapons could be quite different.

 

[sabredog]

Well, certainly. The question is, how much and when - if it's a brand new ship and you're fresh out of scratch, well, then good luck out there until you can raise a few credits. But if you have a partially paid ship it doesn't make much sense to me for the computer to have nothing but its basic package, and nada on the hardpoints. I'm just putting it out there to see what other folks have done...

I let the players figure it out for themselves - scrounging up some weapons always seems to be the average player's top priority even if they aren't really needed yet. So it provides an instant beginning adventure seed.

Anybody have players try the dummy-gun bluff with their unarmed trader yet? Thats always an option.

Once I had players who salvaged a spiffy triple turret off a wreck but forgot to take the fire control, too. That led to an amusing situation the first time they turned to fight thinking they had 3 beam lasers to blast the pirates with.

"Fire up the lasers, Sven, and blast 'em! We'll take their cargo for a change...Bwa-ha-ha!"

"Aye, Cap'n" -snick....click, click, click..."uh, Cap'n?..I think there's a problem?"

Engineer looking in the empty FC racks - "Dang, I knew we were forgetting something back there!"

 

[rust]

Anybody have players try the dummy-gun bluff with their unarmed trader yet? Thats always an option.

No, but I had a quite powerful warship-gone-pirate fleeing from a scout
ship's "salvo" of recon drones not so long ago ...

 

[jawillroy]

snick....click, click, click..."uh, Cap'n?..I think there's a problem?"

Reminds me of a game I played once where I played a freelance merc specializing in tanks: and some joker went and unloaded my vehicle's main gun's ammo hopper. And I never checked, and there we were getting in a dustup and...snick....click, click, click...

 

[sabredog]

There's a lot of the OTU which conspires to make owning and operating a small starship feel like owning a '77 Pinto, especially once you get High Guard going and nothing out there smaller than 10ktons is worth considering. I think Star Wars & the Millennium Falcon have a lot to answer for here, too: the romance of the Jalopy Starship.

I recently started a "sequel" campaign with a group of players I hadn't played with for years while we all went our separate ways in the world. Now we are back together and they are running their original characters again, just 20 years older. Just like us, actually. But with anagathics.

The first thing they wanted to do was see about getting another ship like the one they had for years, not any of the fancy new High Guard jobs with the new flashy new stuff I had come up with over time. No MT whizz-bang gearheady tech, just good old LBB2.

They wanted the 30 year old beater 200 ton Free Trader they bought at salvage from Uncle Bob's Used Starships when they first learned about the game and had finally scrounged enough for the down payment. It was a great ship, love at first sight. Never mind the dings (just pound those out), the chipped paint and scuffed interior with mustard stains on the crash couches (a little duct tape and some pine tree air fresheners'll fix all that), and of course the holed dorsal turret with the burnt meat smell they could never quite get rid of when the laser capacitors warmed up (a little welding, some more air fresheners). All our old in-campaign stories revolve around that ship, even though they had newer, better ships later (after that one fell apart - but that's another story).

It's amazing how much came back when we talked about that ship. The High Guard designs just never had the same feel as the LBB2 ones. Not sure why, but maybe it's because of the my-first-car effect? No matter how neat your current ride is for some reason we all keep going back to how great our first car was even if it had more bondo than aluminum holding it together.

 

[Mithras]

I don't know, it seems to me that the Book 2 descriptive paragraph for ships really 'sold' a ship. Its why I hated High Guard, there was a USP, and not a wonderfully telling hunk of descriptivetext instead. Itswhy I still love Book 2 but hate Book 5.

I recently started a "sequel" campaign with a group of players I hadn't played with for years while we all went our separate ways in the world. Now we are back together and they are running their original characters again, just 20 years older. Just like us, actually. But with anagathics.

The first thing they wanted to do was see about getting another ship like the one they had for years, not any of the fancy new High Guard jobs with the new flashy new stuff I had come up with over time. No MT whizz-bang gearheady tech, just good old LBB2.

They wanted the 30 year old beater 200 ton Free Trader they bought at salvage from Uncle Bob's Used Starships when they first learned about the game and had finally scrounged enough for the down payment. It was a great ship, love at first sight. Never mind the dings (just pound those out), the chipped paint and scuffed interior with mustard stains on the crash couches (a little duct tape and some pine tree air fresheners'll fix all that), and of course the holed dorsal turret with the burnt meat smell they could never quite get rid of when the laser capacitors warmed up (a little welding, some more air fresheners). All our old in-campaign stories revolve around that ship, even though they had newer, better ships later (after that one fell apart - but that's another story).

It's amazing how much came back when we talked about that ship. The High Guard designs just never had the same feel as the LBB2 ones. Not sure why, but maybe it's because of the my-first-car effect? No matter how neat your current ride is for some reason we all keep going back to how great our first car was even if it had more bondo than aluminum holding it together.

 

[sabredog]

True enough, the universal profile system works great for condensing the information and making it look all futuristic n' all, but it makes things pretty sterile on the face of it.

I use extensive descriptions for all my ship designs regardless of the design source. it might also be that somehow there's a more do-it-yourself feel to the LBB2 designs. They lend themselves to more customizing by the new owner than the HG ships. Pull out this drive and plug in a better one, move this bulkhead and fit in a better computer...that sort of thing is easier for the players to mess around with given LBB2's off the shelf components.

Easier to be a shadetree-engineer.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Kill The Motie Now!

.....
"Battle damage? Bring your battle crusier to Crazy Eddie's Universal Repair! We fix absolutely everything to fit your precise needs and physiognomy. We accept no major credit cards or currency but will gladly accept your uninhabited planets as payment. Crazy Eddie's: Today the Mote, Tomorrow the UNIVERSE."

And you people think Hivers are bad...*shudders, grabs Lt. Moon and gives a SITREP on Moties* So you see LT this is for the Galaxy...they BREED...like us, but worse...and they tinker worse than Hivers....got me, now what do you need?! For the Imperium and Humaniti! *pulls cutlass and looks around, then checks cutlass, feels so much better balanced.....* Crap they here already.....

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Lol!

I let the players figure it out for themselves - scrounging up some weapons always seems to be the average player's top priority even if they aren't really needed yet. So it provides an instant beginning adventure seed.

Anybody have players try the dummy-gun bluff with their unarmed trader yet? Thats always an option.

Once I had players who salvaged a spiffy triple turret off a wreck but forgot to take the fire control, too. That led to an amusing situation the first time they turned to fight thinking they had 3 beam lasers to blast the pirates with.

"Fire up the lasers, Sven, and blast 'em! We'll take their cargo for a change...Bwa-ha-ha!"

"Aye, Cap'n" -snick....click, click, click..."uh, Cap'n?..I think there's a problem?"

Engineer looking in the empty FC racks - "Dang, I knew we were forgetting something back there!"

OMG, Sabredog....I'd do some cruel @ss sh!t like that, wow, that's like Supp 4 harsh, but much funnier.....

 

[Jacqual]

I don't know the CT basic text well and I'm just going by what you stated.

subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off

Not your ship has been in service 10 years, has all kinds of damage and systems about to give out, and can barely fly at half its normal maneuver and jump rating. And not 10 years of service spending the entire time in the ship yards upgrading all systems. They are possibilities.

So your question: Wouldn't it be armed? A: possibly, possibly not. Q:Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? A: possibly, possibly not. Not too helpful, I'm sorry. Depending on where a ship flies, there may be no need for wasting money on weaponry or advanced computers and systems. Not every ship flies into dangerous territory.

The ship could be 60 years old, just new to your character? Does CT state? Could the reduced mortgage represent the character receiving an older and more damaged ship?

Any reason the 10 years of the mortgage being paid off couldn't be done in one lump sum? The ship could still be brand new? The reduced mortgage could be obtained via contacts, credit rating, savings and favors accumulated by the character during their career and "cashed in" when mustering out.

You could create a table to roll on for determining possible problems or upgrades that a used ship might have.

(I won't say where some of these non original ideas come from because I'd probably start a war and get shot)

Ok this is direct from LBB1 mustering out description covering Starships

Starships: Two types of starships are available as mustering out benefits: type A free traders and type S scout/couriers.

The type A free trader is a 200-ton cargo vessel equipped to handle both freight and passengers. The ship and details on the financial circumstances noted below are fully described in Book 2. Receipt of this ship as a benefit confers possession of the ship, but also liability for the monthly payments (about Cr1 50,000) for the next forty years. Fuel, crew, and other expenses must also be handled by the character. If the ship benefit is received more than once, each additional receipt is considered to represent actual possession of the ship for a ten-year period. The ship is thus ten years older, and the total payment term is reduced by ten years. It is possible for a character to own a ship, free and clear, by successively rolling the ship benefit five times (once to obtain it, and four times to pay off the four 10-year sequences of payment). The ship is also forty years old.

The type S scout/courier is a 100-ton dispatch vessel of a type very common within human space and fully described in Book 2. It is the policy of the scout service to make available such surplus scout ships to selected individuals on a reserve basis. The vessels are (hopefully) put to good use while they are not required in service, and both the ship and its pilot are available for recall to duty when needed. Only one scout ship may be acquired by a character; further receipt of this benefit results in no further effect. Possession of the scout ship is at the pleasure of the scout service, and it cannot be sold by the character. The ship may be used as desired. Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout bases at class B starports. The character is responsible for both upkeep and crew costs.

The only formatting I did of this is the seperation of the 2 ship types for comparing them. Please note that for the Free Trader if you roll it 5 times the ship is free and clear and 40 years old. In my TU I allow characters to either get the 40 year old ship free and clear with some "minor problems and/or quirks" and any further rolls of the benefit to purchase upgrades for the ship. Or they can take a brand new ship with none of the "minor problems and/or quirks" and extra rolls just knock 10 years off of the payments ship is still new and hasn't aged the contract term is just lower 5 rolls grant a brand new ship with no extras or problems. But there is no customization allowed unless they roll more then 5 times total on that benefit. Doing this in my campaign gives them a little more of a choice in what they get and the effect on the campaign without just giving it all away. I also believe it helps keep the merchant on par with other careers with starship muster rules.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Ok this is direct from LBB1 mustering out description covering Starships....The type A free trader... Receipt of this ship as a benefit confers possession of the ship.... If the ship benefit is received more than once, each additional receipt is considered to represent actual possession of the ship for a ten-year period. The ship is thus ten years older, and the total payment term is reduced by ten years. It is possible for a character to own a ship, free and clear, by successively rolling the ship benefit five times (once to obtain it, and four times to pay off the four 10-year sequences of payment). The ship is also forty years old.

That clears things up and certainly limits the possibilities and raises some concern. My concern is that a character who spent 20 years as a merchant and made Captain on their last term would get 8 mustering benefits and lets say some moderately lucky rolling results in 3 of the 8 rolls being a free trader. The character gets a free trader that has been "possessed" for 20 years (insert GM plot of ghosts on ship). So the character has owned this ship since they were 18? If they are real lucky mustering and get the ship for free they would have possessed it since before they were born....

As to your questions on weapons and computers there are still some roleplaying possibilities;

Just because a character possessed a ship doesn't mean they were very successful and could afford upgrades or modifications. Maybe after that last run you owed creditors and had to sell off some equipment.

The way this is now explained I would lean towards if a character had possessed the ship for a considerable amount of time it would probably have been upgraded / modified in whatever manner suited the character. Possibly judge the successfulness of the merchant by the cash benefits mustered out with and use that as a basis for determining the amount of upgrades / modifications to be made?

 

[The Oz]

I always handled this by saying that any "ship" benefit after the first one allowed the player to choose to either pay off part of the ship (if they had to do so) or "improve" the ship. "Improvements" took the form of arming the ship, or better computers and programs, or better drives (costing cargo space, of course), or even armor (once HG was out, and still costing cargo tonnage). Get enough "ship" benefits to have the ship free and clear and you could even design your own hotrod (within the value of all the money you had "paid," about MCR 120) but you'd owe full-price on it.

I even allowed characters to pool their "ship" benefits, as long as they were from the same service (all Merchants, all Scouts, all Pirates, etc). Usually this wasn't a problem with LLB1 characters, as you'd not often have more than one character survive to have "ship" benefits. Players who did pool their benefits had shared ownership of the vessel in proportion to the number of benefits they had contributed, of course.

 

[rancke]

Okay, I know the CT basic text like the back of my hand: First benefit gives you the ship with a 40 year mortgage; subsequent benefits get you 10 years of the mortgage paid off.

Now, supposing you roll the benefit twice. That's 10 years your ship's been in service. Wouldn't it be armed? Wouldn't the computer's program set be more robust? I don't see a ship surviving ten years of service, OTU or otherwise without packing some kind of heat.

Those ten years of payments add up to eighteen and a half million credits and change.

Do you think it would be reasonable to allow a PC to cash some of that in for ship's weapons and programming?

For that matter, if you totaled up the down payment and those ten years payments and deliver them as cash, you get just short of 26mcr. Might it be reasonable to allow that as an architect's fee & down payment on a better ship?

How have you-all handled this? Speaking as a longtime solitaire player and GM who has occasionally had RL players, but not nearly enough to run into this problem short of just giving them a brace of pulse lasers...

I've long ago decided that a ship isn't a piece of equipment, it's a plot device. Do I want to run a Free Trader campaign? Then the PCs will have control of a spaceship. Do I want the PCs restricted to traveling on passenger liners? Then none of them will have a starship, no matter how many sixes they rolled when mustering out.

If the PCs did have a Free Trader, it wouldn't be one that had been bought from new, but a 40 year (or more) old ship sold off by its original owner because its maintenance and insurance payments were becoming too big. Its current condition and armaments would be dictated by the requirements of the campaign. Bank payments would be low or non-existent, but maintenance would be high and breakdowns frequent.


Hans

 

[jawillroy]

So the character has owned this ship since they were 18? If they are real lucky mustering and get the ship for free they would have possessed it since before they were born...

In the case of that kind of a situation, I'd suggest that perhaps...

-the ship was the core of a family business and the PC has inherited what's left of the mortgage.
-the PC bought a share of the old vessel he's been serving on, and eventually was able to buy out the original mortgage holder
-the PC won the ship in a card game, not realizing he'd also won the responsibility of paying for the thing. He might have won the game he was playing, but now he's not sure who won the game his opponent was playing...

 

[jawillroy]

I've long ago decided that a ship isn't a piece of equipment, it's a plot device.

Good point, Hans... although If I were a PC fantastically lucky enough to naturally roll up -on demand- a captain with a ship, I'd be pretty miffed when my ref said, "Nope!" I'd be more inclined to adapt my campaign to suit the players... if they felt that strongly about trying for a ship.

 

[pendragonman]

In the case of that kind of a situation, I'd suggest that perhaps...

-the PC won the ship in a card game, not realizing he'd also won the responsibility of paying for the thing. He might have won the game he was playing, but now he's not sure who won the game his opponent was playing...

This sooo goes with my new sig!

 

[sabredog]

I've long ago decided that a ship isn't a piece of equipment, it's a plot device. Do I want to run a Free Trader campaign? Then the PCs will have control of a spaceship. Do I want the PCs restricted to traveling on passenger liners? Then none of them will have a starship, no matter how many sixes they rolled when mustering out.

If the PCs did have a Free Trader, it wouldn't be one that had been bought from new, but a 40 year (or more) old ship sold off by its original owner because its maintenance and insurance payments were becoming too big. Its current condition and armaments would be dictated by the requirements of the campaign. Bank payments would be low or non-existent, but maintenance would be high and breakdowns frequent.


Hans

Exactly! Thats how I've always treated it, so depending on what I want the campaign to be like - along with seeing what the players are looking to do I usually set things up right away to get them into a ship.

The last one was to have them wake up from cold sleep with the Free Trader adrift and emptied of the crew. It was up to them to figure out how to get the ship going again and save themselves. Then the fun part was trying to figure out why they kept getting hassled by various suspicious types and chased by the police.

Turned out they were set up by the former owner of the ship who was in it over his eyebrows with smuggling (and not making good on delivery), the law was closing in, and a few other odds and ends. He wanted to disappear but had to leave someone holding the bag. So he set up the players to take the fall for him by altering their identities and abandoning ship after putting in a call to "911" to claim the reward on the capture. And tipping off the bad guys knowing they'd more likely just blast the ship to pieces and sort the DNA later.

In the end the players had a ship, cleared themselves, made useful friends and enemies, and avenged themselves on the guy who tried to frame them.

 

[tbeard1999]

...

How have you-all handled this? Speaking as a longtime solitaire player and GM who has occasionally had RL players, but not nearly enough to run into this problem short of just giving them a brace of pulse lasers...

I await all agog.

I've always been critical of awarding starships as part of character generation. It seems to risk at least 3 major problems:

1. A starship represents a tremendous economic benefit, if it's been wholly or partially paid off. The extremely low interest rate and extremely long loan periods offered by Traveller banks imply that starships retain significant residual value. A character can easily be worth many millions of credits after character generation. (And in a modern economy, it just isn't all that hard to liquidate an asset in which you have significant equity, especially if you're willing to take somewhat less. This can still result in a PC being worth millions.) This kind of disparate treatment can seriously unbalance a campaign (and completely destroy the campaign's focus) before it even starts.

2. Starships can seriously alter a campaign's focus -- and such an event is effectively beyond the control of the referee.

3. More weirdness can ensue if several characters get starships.

Of course, clever referees can mitigate a lot of these problems, but I resent being forced to do so by the game system.

So, in my opinion, starships should be made available by the referee, as part of the campaign, not randomly distributed by the character generation system.

 

[Gadrin]

This might be fun:

Players start with a ship, however the last B or C (probably C) port they put into, a SWAT team was waiting for them, they were arrested, the ship impounded and stripped to pay fines and assessments, they also do 20 to 30 days in jail...

Turns out another member of the shipping cartel they work for had put into the port recently, did a Wild West Number™ on the place, drunken bar fights, lots damage (crashed a gig into a building & construction site) and skipped out without paying port fees.

Authorities take it out on the new guys in town and this is the point the players start the campaign: lifting off, weaponless (lasers, sandcasters confiscated), moneyless (captain's safe was plasma-torched and any operational cash was confiscated), etc, etc.

Now they have to land _somewhere_ and start a-new.

o:


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