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T5 Chapter Priorities

DonM

Moderator
Moderator
Marquis
Ok, some limits...

Everyone gets to nominate FIVE CHAPTERS, and post the titles in the priority order you want; Rob and I don't have limits (hey, we're a feudal structure, not a democracy, ok?)...

Don's T5 Chapter Priorities (in this order):
Personal Combat (I already won this one, so it doesn't count)
GunMaker
ArmorMaker
VehicleMaker
Starship Design
How Starships Work
Starship Combat
Star Systems and Worlds
Trade and Commerce
QREBS
 
Priorities

Since Personal Combat is a given, these are the chapters I need addressed as a GM and general thinkerer:

  • GunMaker
  • ArmorMaker
  • VehicleMaker
  • Robots
  • How Starships Work


GunMaker needs worked examples and clarification on how H1, H2, D1 and D2 etc. all interact together to produce a final Weapon Extension.

ArmorMaker needs to produce Armor ratings that work with GunMaker to produce game balance.

VehicleMaker needs more explanations of what the options represent, how vehicles relate to Driving, Flyer and Seafarer skills. The Vehicle enhancement table p.300 needs errata and to be reviewed for balance (imho it produces too slow too high tech vehicles). Also it needs an Oversize and Titan options to make larger vehicles.

Robots. I'm very concerned that the design system is biased for 100 Liter sophont forms and components should be "per 100 liters".

How Starships Work. Better clearer explanations and highlighting of important game rules.
 
Good defense of your chapter titles. I hadn't thought of that, it's a great add... Thanks for throwing that in!
 
Everyone gets to nominate FIVE CHAPTERS, and post the titles in the priority order you want; Rob and I don't have limits (hey, we're a feudal structure, not a democracy, ok?)...
A dictatorship where the subjects are allowed to vote with their feet, rather. I don't know about your relationship with Marc, but personally I consider you a friend rather than an overlord. :p


Hans
 
Good defense of your chapter titles. I hadn't thought of that, it's a great add... Thanks for throwing that in!

Thanks. I thought there should be some reasoning behind the priorities. Also I didn't just want to say I wanna make more toys :)
 
A dictatorship where the subjects are allowed to vote with their feet, rather. I don't know about your relationship with Marc, but personally I consider you a friend rather than an overlord. :p

I'm not spilling any secrets when I say that in yesterday's business discussions, Marc was very open and honest about the status of T5. Our goal going forward is to prove worthy of your continued trust.

Besides, I'd make a terrible overlord.
 
Priorities

Personal combat is under review already, of that I am looking for specifically Hand to Hand examples.

Now, my five questions:

  • gunmaker and armormaker
  • vehicle maker
  • Character generation
  • standard off the shelf equipment list and descriptions
  • trade and commerce

Gunmaker and armormaker need examples that show a weapon hand designed and how said weapon interacts with various armors so that it can be better understood how to design weapons to defeat specific armor combinations and how to design armors to defeat specific weapon combinations.

Vehicle maker needs to have examples of how to build oversized or titan vehicles to accept and use the oversized and titan weapons that can be designed in weaponmaker.

Character generation needs several A-Z examples from a spread of careers. Specifically, a career military type (one who only has a military career, I include Scout in the military list), an entertainer, a craftsman, a functionary, a citizen, and a character who changes career path every term for at least three changes. These examples need to at least one genetic profile usage, both as a parent and as a character generated from a profile and at least one choosing life pursuits.

In the chargen chapter needs to be included item 4, a standard off the shelf equipment list and descriptions. Very few GMs want to hand generate the beginning equipment for players to chose from, fewer players want to come up with this stuff just to start play. It doesn't have to be very extensive (one like the one found in TTB would be sufficient), and if a couple of these items connected back to worked examples in the makers (with the page pointers) would help show people how to list items in a way other than that string of variable that comes out of the makers. This would help speed a basic game launch.

Lastly trade and commerce really needs a "How it works" example or ten.
 
My list… as Personal Combat (does this include brawling, knife fighting, etc) is already being done:

  • GunMaker … an essential supporting component to Personal Combat.
  • ArmourMaker … an essential supporting component to Personal Combat.
  • Character Generation … needs clarifications and examples for each profession.
  • Skills & Knowledges … an essential supporting component to Character Generation but just needs some minor clarifications.
  • BCS … okay, wasn't in the original book but I thought I'd sneak that in. ;)
 
Blade Maker - it's only one page and it makes no sense at all!
Gun Maker - Mostly good but needs some clarification
Starship Combat - I can't help but feel a lot of explanatory text is missing here
Equipment - Please get the core vehicles and ships in the core.
Sophonts - Again, it would be nice to see official stats for the major races in the core.
 
I'm going to say

Character generation
(agree with) Combat
Clean up world generation and trade

I'll skip my last two options to say this: I would be OK with the big book broken into (paperback?) volumes. That way it could get done 100 pages at a time (give or take). You could use the votes from this thread to decide what goes where.

It would also allow you to stagger the specifics over time. Instead of having to do a whole section, then quit and move on, you could actually publish while you're starting in on the next section volume.

(NOTE: NOT like the LBBs, where the game changed every time a new one came out. Keep it a single unified system, but broken into bite-sized pieces. And, it doesn't have to be paperback; I would pay for bound as well. It's just a suggestion to save costs.)

The best thing from volumes, though, would be a sense of accomplishment. The game would be advancing, and we would be able to see it happen.
 
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I think that every chapter of the game needs to be looked at, hard. There are problems all over the place, not just in combat. Combat is my thing, so that's where I focused when I got the book. But, I've seen problems in other chapters as well.

I like that it's being looked at. And, I am encouraged by Don's statement that the corrected version of T5 will become available to those that already own the game at a discount. I really can't ask for more than that (except for speedier fixes).

One of the problems that is going to come up is that the game is integrated with other chapters. For example, it's hard to "fix" the combat chapter when the AVs of the armor also have to be fixed--which means that Armor Maker has to be changed so that it produces the desired results.

I'd go through the game, front to back, and look hard at each chapter. The order that the changes take place shouldn't be voted upon. For example, Combat is first, but how far behind is Armor Maker. And, Armor Maker ties into vehicles, too (AVs of vehicles), and starships. So, all of that needs to be considered together--or close together.

Likewise, the healing rules are tied to the mechanical rules to fix vehicles and equipment, thus something as far left field as a broken fender on the jeep needs to be considered when the personal combat healing rules are discussed.
 
Personal combat is under review already, of that I am looking for specifically Hand to Hand examples.

Now, my five questions:

  • gunmaker and armormaker
  • vehicle maker
  • Character generation
  • standard off the shelf equipment list and descriptions
  • trade and commerce

Gunmaker and armormaker need examples that show a weapon hand designed and how said weapon interacts with various armors so that it can be better understood how to design weapons to defeat specific armor combinations and how to design armors to defeat specific weapon combinations.

Vehicle maker needs to have examples of how to build oversized or titan vehicles to accept and use the oversized and titan weapons that can be designed in weaponmaker.

Character generation needs several A-Z examples from a spread of careers. Specifically, a career military type (one who only has a military career, I include Scout in the military list), an entertainer, a craftsman, a functionary, a citizen, and a character who changes career path every term for at least three changes. These examples need to at least one genetic profile usage, both as a parent and as a character generated from a profile and at least one choosing life pursuits.

In the chargen chapter needs to be included item 4, a standard off the shelf equipment list and descriptions. Very few GMs want to hand generate the beginning equipment for players to chose from, fewer players want to come up with this stuff just to start play. It doesn't have to be very extensive (one like the one found in TTB would be sufficient), and if a couple of these items connected back to worked examples in the makers (with the page pointers) would help show people how to list items in a way other than that string of variable that comes out of the makers. This would help speed a basic game launch.

Lastly trade and commerce really needs a "How it works" example or ten.

I pretty much agree with everything said here.

D.
 
My list:
T&C
System Generation
Ship design
Gunmaker
Armormaker

I would like to see multiple worked examples - even if only fill-forms - for ships, guns, and armors.

System Gen can use a few bits more explanation for several items.
 
I would like to see multiple worked examples - even if only fill-forms - for ships, guns, and armors.

I don't want specific items ("Gauss SMG") in this thread, but I'll say openly that every example should try to cover the difficult cases (multiple attack types, for example, or how multiple layers of armor interact, etc). Just stating that as an intention, so no one needs to put that on their list. Let's stay focused on chapters right now.
 
In the following order

GunMaker and armor maker together to come in line with personal combat
vehicle maker to be in line with the above
Starship Combat to be in line with personal combat
Starship maker to be in line with with Starship combat and the previous makers

reasoning we can then get the bugs worked out and combat working as a whole
 
Let's stay focused on chapters right now.

Okay. My current, but changeable, impression:

1. Combat.

2. ArmorMaker, GunMaker, VehicleMaker. I've built enough of these that I know the limitations of each. ArmorMaker is the easiest to work on, and I think the most solid. It might need a tweak or two, but it's not going to be a problem. GunMaker could use some careful tweaks and an insert or two. VehicleMaker needs some strategic tweaking: the "standard" Traveller vehicles, perhaps as outlined in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, are the target.

These share the #2 slot because of Combat.

3. Chargen.

4. Psionics. Tweaks to prevent all-powerful psions, for example.

5. Robots. The result should make it understandable when combined with VehicleMaker, Sophont Creation, and ArmorMaker.

6. Ship combat.

7. Trade.

8. Maybe the equipment list is too long.

9. Everything else.
 
I'd vote for character generation, especially examples.

The one I don't think is a priority at all is system generation. When I was looking for what part of T5 I wanted to write an app for, this chapter (with errata) was easy to understand and work through.
 
My list, subject to revision, and ignoring combat --

1) Makers - these impact many different facets of the system!

2) Psionics - I submitted a big errata list, and I would like to see it cleaned up, explore some limitations (fatigue??) and explore "linking" for tasks. (Yah, I like psi, be it the force or more like the Lensmen.)

3) TRADE! This could entail a lot of work, but seems to be a biggie for a lot of us.

4) Starship combat ( and maybe ship design/how it works, since one affects the other)

5) Chargen - more logical arrangement of pages (group similar items), clean up table errata, and some clear information on life pursuits

In all cases, I'd like to see examples, preferably for some of the more "complex" items like multiple damage types, or career changes.

I think I expended my 2 CrImps...
 
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