MGT Only: Shooting a gun with laser sights? MgT2e+

[Enoki]

Well, when in doubt, Punt (pun intended)

The 1 or 2 gauge Punt gun.

 

[Rupert]

I think the +1 DM for using a Laser Sight is a fair bonus in terms of game mechanics. As others pointed out, there's myriad variables and factors involved in making an accurate shot. And laser and red-dot sights are mostly intended for CQB. Now, I will say, based on my own experience in Afghanistan, hitting a moving target even at 25m using a weapon that's kitted out with the latest bells and whistles is a bit tricky in combat.

The military rifle I found the easiest to make snap shots with was the M16A1 with no bells and whistles. Light and handy, and it fitted me just right, so no time wasted getting the sights lined up.

Thinking about the thread's subject, a laser sight (and to some extent a red dot sight) largely gets around that issue of having the rifle fit well or having to practice a lot to make up for a poor fit. However, this is something that's well below the resolution of most games, and most players probably aren't interested in tracking which exact model (and what stock length, if variable, and so on) of rifle their characters have spent sufficient time on to avoid a snap-shot penalty.

 

[JimCook]

Red dots ( also green dots and circles and dots inside circles) are replacements for traditional iron sights. Iron sight are often not properly aligned by novice and even to a degree experienced shooter. With some, but not extensive, practice they are faster to put on target. This is why they are preferred in many action shooting sports. Long range shooting such as snipers prefer telescopic optics (scopes).

At short ranges, say under 100 meters, no one worries about wind let along the curvature of the earth. this is where red dots are useful. At medium ranges, 100 to 300 yards, most good shooters will take wind into account along with shooting up hill or downhill. Some will us red dots, but often combined with a magnifier (scope). At extreme ranges, kilometers, then there is a lengthy list of factors that often require using a hand held ballistic computer. This is the realm of very expensive scopes.

 

[aramis]

Have you ever shot a gun, or even a crossbow, with a laser sight in real life?

Firearm

Is there any real "aim" to it? Or are you just looking for a red dot?

Yes - you have to account for wind and bullet drop.

I would think that "red dot" would override any aiming you did. It does the aiming for you.

Then, someone with no training can shoot it.

So, should a laser sight give you a +6 or a +10 to your Gun Combat task roll?

Not nearly that high. Maybe +2 or +3.

 

[Janitor_Prime]

Have you ever shot a gun, or even a crossbow, with a laser sight in real life?

Is there any real "aim" to it? Or are you just looking for a red dot?

I would think that "red dot" would override any aiming you did. It does the aiming for you.

Then, someone with no training can shoot it.

So, should a laser sight give you a +6 or a +10 to your Gun Combat task roll?

I have used a M68 Close Combat Optic "Red Dot" sight on the M4 Carbine in a lovely little garden spot in 2003, 2004, 2005. The AN/PAQ is a combination visible laser, IR laser, and IR flashlight or torch for the Brits. The squad leader had one to designate targets. The squad leader would use the pressure switch taped to the forward stock and shine the laser onto a target the whole squad is going to fire upon such as an enemy machinegun. The visible laser is a nice deterrent to civilians to stop or stay out of an area. Shine a laser on one and they know a rifle is aimed at them personally and this is not confusing.

The Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) is different, though similar in principal. This also boresighted to the rifle and then adjusted to the shooter. This has a red circle or triangle you center mass on your target. Additionally, this has stadia lines and can be used for determining range and using the scope with holds for greater distance. Considered a medium range optic. This requires classroom instruction and a regular range time to be proficient.

The firer absolutely must aim properly with the M68 or the ACOG. This is a sight that is aligned with the barrel using a bore sight. The firer is looking through their own iron sights. The firer has to hold their rifle properly and aim through the sights.

The laser is just a laser pointer. Aligned with the bore with a boresight. The firer could point the laser at something and if the laser is on it, then that is where the bullet is going to go. This would be close range unless your shooting at something pretty large like a city bus or a locomotive.

So what bonuses would I give for these?
M68, +1 at point blank and short range. One action to aim.
ACOG, +1 at point blank, short, and medium. One action to aim. Requires Gun Combat - 0
Laser, +2 at point blank, +1 at short. +2 to a intimidation roll. One action to aim. For the untrained, I would reduce the -3 modifier to -1 for point blank.

Things change rapidly and I have been out now for 20 years.