lightsenshi
SOC-12
I'll see if I can get around to posting a missile pod ship here soon so everyone can be on the same (relative) page that I am.
Missile Pods
- Thread starter lightsenshi
- Start date
justacaveman
SOC-12
A 1 dton missle magazine carries (20) 50vl missles (Standard T20 missle.). This includes machinery for autoloading them into a missle turret.
There's no reason you can't have a vertical missle launcher that holds 20 missles that can be launched up to the full capacity. you would only be able to load them in dock, but they would be quite devastating for 1 shot.
For game balance I would limit vertical launchers to a 2 dton maximum per hardpoint, and the number of fireable missles equal to the tech level of the ship.
There's no reason you can't have a vertical missle launcher that holds 20 missles that can be launched up to the full capacity. you would only be able to load them in dock, but they would be quite devastating for 1 shot.
For game balance I would limit vertical launchers to a 2 dton maximum per hardpoint, and the number of fireable missles equal to the tech level of the ship.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hey all, rather than start a new thread for a single question I'll pose it here in hope that someone recalls the answer or has it handy. I've scoured T20 for rules on the number of missiles a bay (50dT and 100dT) would have ready and fire per turn. I need the numbers to figure out how much magazine storage I should allocate in a design. I think there was a ruling for it in the CT missile supplement or maybe even LBB5 but both mine are long lost. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.
justacaveman
SOC-12
As I see it a 1 dton missle magazine holds 20 missles with a volume of 50vl each. This space includes autoloaders etc. for reloading missle launchers. 20 missles take up less than 1/2 dton by volume. IMTU the 50vl standard missle is appoximately 460mm in diameter by 1.5m long.
A vertical launch system is much more efficient in space than a turret. I have 1 dton Vertical Launchers holding 28 standard missles, and able to fire up to 4 of them per shot. This means that each launcher holds a volume of missles equal to 1/2 it's displacemet. This fits in well with current technology.
They are not designed as rapid launch facilities. A rapid launch facility is not a missle launch tube, it is designed to deploy up to 40 "small craft" per turn without killing the crew and passengers. The vertical missle launcher is a simple modular container equipped with electronic connections that holds a missle right at the surface of the ship ready to be fired in an instant. They can only be reloade from the exterior with specialized equipment. A relatively simple job in drydock, but quite difficult while in space.
A vertical launch system is much more efficient in space than a turret. I have 1 dton Vertical Launchers holding 28 standard missles, and able to fire up to 4 of them per shot. This means that each launcher holds a volume of missles equal to 1/2 it's displacemet. This fits in well with current technology.
They are not designed as rapid launch facilities. A rapid launch facility is not a missle launch tube, it is designed to deploy up to 40 "small craft" per turn without killing the crew and passengers. The vertical missle launcher is a simple modular container equipped with electronic connections that holds a missle right at the surface of the ship ready to be fired in an instant. They can only be reloade from the exterior with specialized equipment. A relatively simple job in drydock, but quite difficult while in space.
The missile pod concept exploits a fundamental flaw in traveller ship combat, the time scate!
"Missile away! Cream and sugar Captain?"
"Bah! This coffee's bitter! Brew up a fresh pot, and see to my laundry. And tell gunnery to fire a laser at that enemy fighter!"
Turret weapons in MT are rated at 30 rounds/minute during combat, or 3 rounds per hour against another ship!
Presumably a ship launching a few hundred missiles from towed pods would find them blown away by the opponents triple laser turret that can fire 1800 times in one combat round!
There are a lot of things that just don't pass reality checks, but are needed for game balance. Really, it's entirely feasible to load up a sub with missiles, dump them all out the back door, radio an activation and targeting commmand to the whole lot, and blow the snot out of a cruiser without these balancing factors
Sorry for rambling, this is one of my pet peeves with the system. I simply ignore the 20 minute ship-combat round in favor of an 'indeterminate length' one. As long as none of the players ever *ask* me how long it is...
"Missile away! Cream and sugar Captain?"
"Bah! This coffee's bitter! Brew up a fresh pot, and see to my laundry. And tell gunnery to fire a laser at that enemy fighter!"
Turret weapons in MT are rated at 30 rounds/minute during combat, or 3 rounds per hour against another ship!
Presumably a ship launching a few hundred missiles from towed pods would find them blown away by the opponents triple laser turret that can fire 1800 times in one combat round!
There are a lot of things that just don't pass reality checks, but are needed for game balance. Really, it's entirely feasible to load up a sub with missiles, dump them all out the back door, radio an activation and targeting commmand to the whole lot, and blow the snot out of a cruiser without these balancing factors
Sorry for rambling, this is one of my pet peeves with the system. I simply ignore the 20 minute ship-combat round in favor of an 'indeterminate length' one. As long as none of the players ever *ask* me how long it is...
One of the traditional problems with missiles in SF games. The mental model (and the High Guard model) for a missile launcher somewhat resembles a cannon, but the fact is, in any situation with point defense, the optimal solution is to fire all your missiles (or at least, enough to swamp point defense and cripple the target) in one salvo. It's also really not hard to do; MRLS are not exactly advanced technology (neither is controlling as many missiles as you can possibly fit into a launcher).
There's no reason for 'missile pods', however. You can do a volley launch just as well directly out of the side of the ship.
There's no reason for 'missile pods', however. You can do a volley launch just as well directly out of the side of the ship.
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
Zutroi - another very good point - i have noticed the sam problem years ago, as you do, i also have adjusted my thinking on it and try to ignore this "rule".
I don't think there were any missile pod designs here. So let me make a description!
The Ido Arms Manufacturers offer, in conjunction with Esdoc Computer Systems, a missile pod to surpass all other missile pods. Each pod ties directly into fire control through a ship's sensors, and carries nine missiles. These missiles accelerate at 60 gravities, carry a variety of warheads, and can be adapted (with special kit available only through ECS) to survey, sattelite and communications work. A ship level 1 sensors or better may carry two pods for each level of sensors. Price per pod is KCr750, and kinetic-kill missiles are KCr 15 each. Several different warhead types exist, as well as the conversion kits, and each cost KCr 10. Be advised that all nuclear, biological, radiological and chemical warheads are strictly regulated and may only be purchased with Imperial approval.
The Ido Arms Manufacturers offer, in conjunction with Esdoc Computer Systems, a missile pod to surpass all other missile pods. Each pod ties directly into fire control through a ship's sensors, and carries nine missiles. These missiles accelerate at 60 gravities, carry a variety of warheads, and can be adapted (with special kit available only through ECS) to survey, sattelite and communications work. A ship level 1 sensors or better may carry two pods for each level of sensors. Price per pod is KCr750, and kinetic-kill missiles are KCr 15 each. Several different warhead types exist, as well as the conversion kits, and each cost KCr 10. Be advised that all nuclear, biological, radiological and chemical warheads are strictly regulated and may only be purchased with Imperial approval.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
IMTU, 50 ton and 100 ton missile bays are vertical launch missile systems. They just usually don't launch all their missiles at once.
I can think of a use for missile pods, though. Most merchant ships cannot launch enough turret missiles to get through a pirate's defenses, and missile bays are too d*mn expensive and cost too much cargo space for a merchie. But if you could have one or two of these missile pods in a corner of your cargo bay, you could dump them out the aft cargo hatch when seriously pressed and surprise Mr. Pirate with a sudden salvo of 10 or 20 missiles.
Of course, if you don't get Mr. Pirate with your missiles, he's going to be really, really annoyed at you....
Note that missile pods could also be used to make a civilian ship into a kind of warship. Fill the cargo bay with these pods and roll them out.
IMTU, missiles are mostly a military weapon and few civilian ships carry them. I don't think I'll bother with missile pods and if I do, they'll be a military-use item.
Pirates would love to have missile pods. Can you imagine a pirate using a couple of these to cover an escape from a patrol ship? Or using a larger salvo to take out the destroyer escorting the yacht of the local subsector noble?
I can think of a use for missile pods, though. Most merchant ships cannot launch enough turret missiles to get through a pirate's defenses, and missile bays are too d*mn expensive and cost too much cargo space for a merchie. But if you could have one or two of these missile pods in a corner of your cargo bay, you could dump them out the aft cargo hatch when seriously pressed and surprise Mr. Pirate with a sudden salvo of 10 or 20 missiles.
Of course, if you don't get Mr. Pirate with your missiles, he's going to be really, really annoyed at you....
Note that missile pods could also be used to make a civilian ship into a kind of warship. Fill the cargo bay with these pods and roll them out.
IMTU, missiles are mostly a military weapon and few civilian ships carry them. I don't think I'll bother with missile pods and if I do, they'll be a military-use item.
Pirates would love to have missile pods. Can you imagine a pirate using a couple of these to cover an escape from a patrol ship? Or using a larger salvo to take out the destroyer escorting the yacht of the local subsector noble?
Why bother with the pods? Just put remote activated target acquisition and activation systems on 'em and kick 'em out your cargo lock. After you've dumped a few hundred, feed them the activation and targeting info and blow the snot out of your opponent. This assumes, of course, that you don't give a damn about game balance...
If you DO like balance, how about limiting the number of remote-activated missiles to something related to Computer model? Or allowing the enemy's triple laser turrets to fire the 1800 times per (ship-combat) round that MT implies...
IMHO, there must be a line drawn between missile pods (i.e. launchers) and captor mines.
- Missile pod implies it is attached to the structure of the ship (at a hard point or et al). IMHO, a towed pod gets you nothing; you still need a "hard point" to attach it to the hull (otherwise it gets ripped off with the first highspeed maneuver) and connect it with your computer plus it is now undefended by sandcasters/BGG/etc.
- Captors are mines that launch projectiles, missiles, or torpedos (best for dumping out cargo doors!)
Vertical launchers on modern warships can be loaded at sea, but it is a very delicate operation. There are several problems, one is ensuring the missile will fly free from the rail and not jam in the launcher (blow torching a huge hole in the ship). Given enough room (and components that don't need replacing after launch), the launcher could be reloaded from the rear. A vessel like Tanuki's RQ could have a launcher that locks into place at each cargo bay door and has reloads set behind it. Obviously this requires the attendants to be in vacc suit but who wouldn't be at battle stations. Still the launcher must be hard connected to the ship's computer in order for the missile to receive its launch order and initial vector.
Captor mines would prove very effective against pursuers, without requiring sophisticated sensors, datalinks, and computers. Being autonomous, the mine just waits until its triggered. In this case, more effective than a handfull of big missiles would be several thousand thumb-sized heavy metal slugs (a space claymore!).
Missiles also have several modes of guidance that affect the method they are deployed. Active and passive guidance missiles can be autonomous after given initial targeting information. Semi-active missiles require the launching ship (or guidance ship) to maintain a sensor lock with the target and direct the missile to it. This is where the number-of-missiles-in-flight question comes into play. Otherwise, it is a matter of target tracking software/sensors vice missile control.
... My 0.02Cr ...
- Missile pod implies it is attached to the structure of the ship (at a hard point or et al). IMHO, a towed pod gets you nothing; you still need a "hard point" to attach it to the hull (otherwise it gets ripped off with the first highspeed maneuver) and connect it with your computer plus it is now undefended by sandcasters/BGG/etc.
- Captors are mines that launch projectiles, missiles, or torpedos (best for dumping out cargo doors!)
Vertical launchers on modern warships can be loaded at sea, but it is a very delicate operation. There are several problems, one is ensuring the missile will fly free from the rail and not jam in the launcher (blow torching a huge hole in the ship). Given enough room (and components that don't need replacing after launch), the launcher could be reloaded from the rear. A vessel like Tanuki's RQ could have a launcher that locks into place at each cargo bay door and has reloads set behind it. Obviously this requires the attendants to be in vacc suit but who wouldn't be at battle stations. Still the launcher must be hard connected to the ship's computer in order for the missile to receive its launch order and initial vector.
Captor mines would prove very effective against pursuers, without requiring sophisticated sensors, datalinks, and computers. Being autonomous, the mine just waits until its triggered. In this case, more effective than a handfull of big missiles would be several thousand thumb-sized heavy metal slugs (a space claymore!).
Missiles also have several modes of guidance that affect the method they are deployed. Active and passive guidance missiles can be autonomous after given initial targeting information. Semi-active missiles require the launching ship (or guidance ship) to maintain a sensor lock with the target and direct the missile to it. This is where the number-of-missiles-in-flight question comes into play. Otherwise, it is a matter of target tracking software/sensors vice missile control.
... My 0.02Cr ...
Well, if you allow bomb-pumped x-ray lasers like those in TNE, then the equation changes drastically. Set your missles to detonate at the outer edge of your target's point defense acquisition zone and suddenly you've got the great equalizer.
I guess it just depends on whether or not you want piracy to be common IYTU. A knife-edge proposition to begin with, anything which forces stand off engagements instead of close action and boarding is going to make a career as a pirate unsustainable. That's why, IMTU, pirates either band together to offer overwhelming odds or employ ruses designed to lure their prey into close striking range.
lightsenshi
SOC-12
*is waiting for the HH supplement*
