How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love...

[RobertFisher]

When I first came to CotI, I was excited about the prospect of T5. Traveller was my first RPG and remains, in many ways, my favorite.

Then I read some of the ideas Marc had put forth about what T5 was going to look like. It didn't look enough to me like my beloved CT. I was shaken.

Reading the boards today, I realized how happy I am about Traveller right now.

Between the reprints (hurrah! hurrah!) and some lucky finds at secondhand book stores and on ebay, I have everything I need to get a group to play CT. I have a gaming group that has been willing to give it a try since we got together. (Just waiting for its turn to come up.) I've actually gotten to the point where CT and Basic D&D are the only RPGs I'm excited about running.

The thing that maybe bothered me most about T5 was the T4-ish task system. I thought 2d6 roll high was the one true faith.

Looking at the CT books, though, I began to wonder. While we always used the 2d6 roll high metarule, I suspect Marc may have long used a Nd6 roll high metarule. (He gives us probabilities charts for...what...1d6, 2d6, 3d6, & 4d6?)

I've begun to realize that the T5 task system may not be as foreign to CT as it was to me.

Anyway, I've come to a point where I'm again saying to myself: I trust Marc. I've enjoyed his past work, and--if I approach it with an open mind--I'm sure I'll enjoy what he has to offer in the future. I'd rather T5 please Marc than try to please all of us.

And, I've got a wonderful place to come and discuss things with other Traveller fans. (Please don't take any of this to be a commentary on the discussions here. I'm genuinely enjoying them, and I'm still just as likely to champion the 2d6 roll high true faith around here as I ever was!)

Well, for whatever they're worth, I just wanted to share those thoughts.

 

[aramis]

What Marc didn't ever do was PUBLISH an nD6 metarule until T4.

Several early systems used it (The Fantasy Trip being the most similar to T4/T5 implementations).

Many systems use "Roll Lots of Dice". Few use dice based upon difficulty. Most use "Roll Skill Dice against target number x+" in either a "read each separately" or a "total and compare" mode. (A few got wierder, but that is a digression.)

Personally, I've used a 3d10 task system with Twilight 2000 2d ed pre-d20-revision... Roll 3d10: Easy, read the lowest, and compare to skill. Avg, read median. Hard, read High. Formidable, read high+low, Absurd, total all three. very different (and mathematically easier) than the multiplication required under the stock easy is x2 TN, hard is x1/2.

But Traveller, courtesy of MT and Traveller:2300 (which isn't Traveller canon, but it was out there) and the DGP task system which appeared for CT in arguably the second most common traveller magazine, and was evolved into the other two mentioned rules, was a roll high, 2d6 (or 1d10 for 2300) system. That stuck with many people.

TNE and T2K2.2 (and DC2.2) went with a d20 mechanic, and multiplications.THAT created a wholly different task feel. And TNE was, well, revitalizing to the traveller crowd (albeit at the cost of the setting and design teams integrity.

Now MWM brings a rarely publically successful mechanic, whch, as you say, may have been how he played all along, and tries to make it successful...

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
....
Anyway, I've come to a point where I'm again saying to myself: I trust Marc. I've enjoyed his past work, and--if I approach it with an open mind--I'm sure I'll enjoy what he has to offer in the future. I'd rather T5 please Marc than try to please all of us.

....

Alright, in that case please do your part and go to Traveller 5 website.

Look over the playtest files but do more than look. There is a link for an email at the bottom of the pdfs.

Send Marc comments.

I have gotten some very nice measured responses back.

If I had to, I could make the Task System a roll-high on the fly and toughen up the "This is Hard" rule to compensate for emphasis on Atts and be done with it. There is a better way though.

Aramis though posted a nice 3D6 system that would work though and it feels very UTP-like.

The experience rules seem inflexible to me but I have commented and Marc said he might consider optional rules for different "cultures" of learning.

Get your ideas and input in.

Unless Marc Miller does something amazingly mind-boggling awfull with the rules I will buy T5. Simply the idea of putting alien chargen rules in the main book and quickgen rules all look really great and I want a new edition.

I am psyched and ready. In fact I might change my sig to my new battle cry, "T5 in 2005!"

 

[robject]

Originally posted by RobertFisher:
...I was excited about the prospect of T5...

Then... It didn't look enough to me like my beloved CT...

Reading the boards today, I realized how happy I am about Traveller right now.

...I have everything I need to get a group to play CT...

...The thing that maybe bothered me most about T5 was the T4-ish task system. I thought 2d6 roll high was the one true faith...

Looking at the CT books, though, I began to wonder...

I've begun to realize that the T5 task system may not be as foreign to CT as it was to me.

Anyway, I've come to a point where I'm again saying to myself: I trust Marc...

You da man, Robert Fisher! That's the most encouraging, upbeat post I've seen in awhile. And as far as CT goes... go for it!! It would take a long time for T5 to be as all-encompassing, all-consuming as CT.

I was surprised by your insight about the Nd6 rule being behind the scenes throughout CT. I'll have to check into that myself.

And ACK's request is right on the money. Playtest, playtest, playtest, and send Mr. Miller a concise list of suggestions and comments. While he likely won't abandon his rule systems, he wants to hear feedback.

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by ACK:
Alright, in that case please do your part and go to Traveller 5 website.

Yeah. That has been on my to do list since some of your comments in the Advanced CT thread. I looked at the playtest files once long ago, but at the time they just looked too much like T4 for my state of mind then.

One of the things that probably triggered the post above was that the subject of Traveller came up at my Monday night game. I broke out the LBBs and reprints to show off. It was so encouraging that my group is universally happy to give it a try when the time comes.

So, I've been considering shifting more time to Traveller related activities in preparation. So, maybe I will get back around to the T5 site soon.

Originally posted by robject:
That's the most encouraging, upbeat post I've seen in awhile.

Thanks for the kind words! If you found my post encouraging, then you've returned the favor.

 

[robject]

Hey Robert, did you ever wander over to traveller5.com and try out the playtest stuff?

 

[Commander Drax]

Hi Dudes,

I've repeatedly tried to send some constructive and useful playtest feedback to Marc at T4 but am not sure that I am sending on the correct email link, as I've never had any replies.

I would also like to (as suggested) write of the titles he's got listed in the TOC document and have asked what one's are still outstanding as I am pretty sure that a lot of the work is already done (starships and the TNAS) etc, to simply write something and send it in regardless might well be a waste of time if someone else has already done it.

I bet though there are some gaps that need to be filled, and personally I would be happy to write anything needed.

 

[jchurchill]

I've repeatedly tried to send some constructive and useful playtest feedback to Marc at T4 but am not sure that I am sending on the correct email link, as I've never had any replies.
=================================================
I sent him comments and he replied briefly which I really appreciated. I urged him to slip the Diplomat chargen back in --- one does not have to have 40 or 50 character types like TNE but I really like the Citizens of the Imperium characters and most of them can be used to represent other characters as well.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Commander Drax:
Hi Dudes,

I've repeatedly tried to send some constructive and useful playtest feedback to Marc at T4 but am not sure that I am sending on the correct email link, as I've never had any replies.

I would also like to (as suggested) write of the titles he's got listed in the TOC document and have asked what one's are still outstanding as I am pretty sure that a lot of the work is already done (starships and the TNAS) etc, to simply write something and send it in regardless might well be a waste of time if someone else has already done it.

I bet though there are some gaps that need to be filled, and personally I would be happy to write anything needed.

I suspect the same thing, but I bet he's not at the point to farm out major work. Having said that, if you think of something somewhat peripheral you'd like to do and can get his attention with it, he might let you run with it.

For example, I showed him a Vilani syllabary I was developing, and he gave me (rare, brief) suggestions, directions, and now I'm compiling and editing the Vilani grammar and lexicon. While Vilani is a nice garnish to the game, it's totally peripheral, low-profile, and in the end doesn't have to be used at all.

 

[Commander Drax]

That's a really good idea, I'll try and find something sufficiently low key..

Many Thanks

 

[RobertFisher]

Originally posted by robject:
Hey Robert, did you ever wander over to traveller5.com and try out the playtest stuff?

Thread resurrection reveals something I missed.

Since this thread started, I tried re-reading the T5 playtest stuff again, but I've found it hard to get motivated to really concentrate on it & critique it.

Besides the general...I dunno..."backgrounding" of my Traveller interest that also relates to my absence from these boards during the summer...

I guess it's because I'm so happy with CT. Plus, I'm grappling with learning & understanding bits of CT that--for various reasons--didn't get my attention in the past, but are getting it now. (& CT is really so big, I don't think I'll ever know--or even want to know--it all.) I suppose I want to improve my foundation first.

Or maybe its just that blissfulness doesn't motivate activism.

The little epiphany that started this thread is probably part of the explaintion for both my absence from CotI & my lack of interest in T5.

I've got it in mind to raid the T5 docs for CT house rules soon, though...

 

[aramis]

I'd like to see all 19 CT/MT basic careers represented, as well as the new ones in T4. (Other isn't in MT, and something else is, but I forget what.)

And I can't fine either SMC nor Supp4 to check the list.

 

[T. Foster]

Originally posted by Aramis:
I'd like to see all 19 CT/MT basic careers represented, as well as the new ones in T4. (Other isn't in MT, and something else is, but I forget what.)

And I can't fine either SMC nor Supp4 to check the list.

Law Enforcer is in MT but not Supp 4/SMC. The version of Law Enforcer in MT originally comes from TD#4 (there was a law enforcer career in an issue of Challenge as well, but it's different). My own 'ideal Traveller' contains 20 careers -- the 18 from MT plus Journalist (the DGP version, from one of the early TDs + "The Early Adventures") and Entertainer (from T4).

 

[Commander Drax]

When using T4 and in need of a law enforcer I tend to use the Agent character class, i percieved this class as any investigative detective, bounty hunty, journalist or even in some cases a non military back ground mercenary or assasin.

That's the great thing about traveller character classes, there's so much you can do with them.

 

[robject]

* Barbarian could be someone from a low-tech world.

The career types should be general enough to allow all kinds of interesting background careers. Then, Life Pursuits allows a matrix of specializations within career types.

In other words, a lot of the CT/MT advanced careers tend to target a particular skill (belter, doctor, researcher, diplomat, hunter, bureaucrat, pilot, sailing). These are Life Pursuits, and can be integral parts of a character's career.

This means that T5 has more than 12 career options. For example, a T5 character could conceivably be one of:

Rogue
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer
Noble
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer
Entertainer
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer ??
Army
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer (MP?)
Marine
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer (MP?)
Navy
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Law enforcer (MP?)
Scout
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Law enforcer (MP?)
Merchant
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer (rent-a-cop?)
Agent
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Detective
- Journalist
- Spy
- Ambassador
- Bounty Hunter
- Law enforcer (FBI)
Scholar
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer ?
Functionary
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer
Civilian
- Doctor
- Scientist
- Bureaucrat
- Diplomat
- Privateer
- Belter
- Hunter
- Flyer
- Sailor
- Law enforcer

A Merchant Doctor. A Rogue Belter... and with a little imagination, even something so bizarre as a Navy Privateer. Corrupt naval officer? Impossible!

Well thanks to T5, it's now possible.

Anyone want to try it?