Federation of Arden

[robject]

Yep, they're up to something, all right. How does one build an empire in a low-key manner?

I have an acquaintence who was in the Arden navy. He was captain of a 300 ton close escort, and generally flew with a few other ships of the same class on various missions. He retired awhile ago and left Arden for the Marches, which is where I met him. We'd talk about the places we'd been to, the things we'd seen. I don't know what their production capabilities are, but their navy is a lot better than TL 8. For one thing, their ships are jump-capable. For another thing, their marines wear something similar to older-issue IISS powered armor. But I think they don't use laser rifles or man-portable energy weapons.

He told me of one time when his group was directed to intercept a very large ship which had strayed into Arden space without authorization. They found a 30,000 ton vessel with a megacorporate logo on the side. Its beacon was on, but there was no comms traffic. When it didn't respond to hails, they cautiously approached and initiated automatic landing procedures.

They found the place in decent condition; huge engines, equipment, and cargo... but they also found some alien parasite that had infested the ship and probably had eaten the crew -- hundreds of people. Turns out the ship was some secret research vessel that was working on developing a xenobiological weapon... an experimental weapon that got out of hand and caught them unawares...

 

[robject]

Yep, they're up to something, all right. How does one build an empire in a low-key manner?

I have an acquaintence who was in the Arden navy. He was captain of a 300 ton close escort, and generally flew with a few other ships of the same class on various missions. He retired awhile ago and left Arden for the Marches, which is where I met him. We'd talk about the places we'd been to, the things we'd seen. I don't know what their production capabilities are, but their navy is a lot better than TL 8. For one thing, their ships are jump-capable. For another thing, their marines wear something similar to older-issue IISS powered armor. But I think they don't use laser rifles or man-portable energy weapons.

He told me of one time when his group was directed to intercept a very large ship which had strayed into Arden space without authorization. They found a 30,000 ton vessel with a megacorporate logo on the side. Its beacon was on, but there was no comms traffic. When it didn't respond to hails, they cautiously approached and initiated automatic landing procedures.

They found the place in decent condition; huge engines, equipment, and cargo... but they also found some alien parasite that had infested the ship and probably had eaten the crew -- hundreds of people. Turns out the ship was some secret research vessel that was working on developing a xenobiological weapon... an experimental weapon that got out of hand and caught them unawares...

 

[robject]

Yep, they're up to something, all right. How does one build an empire in a low-key manner?

I have an acquaintence who was in the Arden navy. He was captain of a 300 ton close escort, and generally flew with a few other ships of the same class on various missions. He retired awhile ago and left Arden for the Marches, which is where I met him. We'd talk about the places we'd been to, the things we'd seen. I don't know what their production capabilities are, but their navy is a lot better than TL 8. For one thing, their ships are jump-capable. For another thing, their marines wear something similar to older-issue IISS powered armor. But I think they don't use laser rifles or man-portable energy weapons.

He told me of one time when his group was directed to intercept a very large ship which had strayed into Arden space without authorization. They found a 30,000 ton vessel with a megacorporate logo on the side. Its beacon was on, but there was no comms traffic. When it didn't respond to hails, they cautiously approached and initiated automatic landing procedures.

They found the place in decent condition; huge engines, equipment, and cargo... but they also found some alien parasite that had infested the ship and probably had eaten the crew -- hundreds of people. Turns out the ship was some secret research vessel that was working on developing a xenobiological weapon... an experimental weapon that got out of hand and caught them unawares...

 

[Whipsnade]

rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."


Mr. Rancke-Madsen,

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120. BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."


Mr. Rancke-Madsen,

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120. BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."


Mr. Rancke-Madsen,

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120. BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[kaladorn]

Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

 

[kaladorn]

Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

 

[kaladorn]

Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

 

[aramis]

The Swordies are a pre-jump/Early-jump colonial effort from Terra, IIRC.

I'd have to check the JTAS article to be certain... and I can't find my best of JTAS's...

 

[aramis]

The Swordies are a pre-jump/Early-jump colonial effort from Terra, IIRC.

I'd have to check the JTAS article to be certain... and I can't find my best of JTAS's...

 

[aramis]

The Swordies are a pre-jump/Early-jump colonial effort from Terra, IIRC.

I'd have to check the JTAS article to be certain... and I can't find my best of JTAS's...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120.

No, the Arden Society is history either way. It is toppled in 1110. That's CT canon, not BtC.

BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

"Because Y contradicts previously published information without being a vast improvement and Z is self-contradictory."

I use the same yardstick with regard to BtC as I do with all canon material: Does it make sense (or can it be made to make sense)? If not, toss it. Does it fit with other bits of canon? If not, is one bit much better than the other? If so, keep that bit and toss the other. If they're of a muchness, which one came first? Keep that one and toss the other.

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?

The times (in the TU) changed.

(Note: The following is heavily laced with my own, non-canonical ideas. I like to think that they fit with canon, but that don't mean that I'm claiming that everything I write below has canonical backing.)

Long range colonization is difficult and expensive. That doesn't mean it never happens. It just means that it is rare. I think the Spinward Marches is so far from the Solomani Rim that colonization from one to the other is very unlikely. If I myself were writing the background for the first time, I'd probably stick to only one and have the Darrians be uplifted by someone else from closer by. But unlikely things do happen occasionally, so I'm not upset about having two successful long range expeditions in 3,000 years. But when BtC uses the Marches as a sort of America to the Rim's Europe, with half a dozen RoM colonies, my belief suspenders snap.

Now, I wouldn't consider half a dozen Long Night colonies in the Marches unlikely if they came from Vland or Lishun or even Core. But as it happens, early canonical material established that by historical accident all the expeditions that headed that way settled in Deneb and the Trojan Reach (Maybe they followed the edge of the Rift?

). So as it happened the Spinward Marches beat the odds in the opposite direction and were mostly left alone through most of the Long Night.

But in 60 things began to change. Scout expeditions brought word back to the Imperium about all these fallow worlds lying far from the Imperial border, and some utopians outfitted long range expeditions to get there precisely because it was a long way from the Imperium. Some of them undoubtedly failed and others settled along the way, in Corridor and Deneb sectors, but enough made it to settle Regina, Ruie, and a small number of other worlds. Then, during the Pacification Campaigns, it occasionally happened that a "pacification" ended with the Imperium offering the losers (or at least the hard core of the losers) free transport to some place outside the Imperium in exchange for their surrender. At that time most of the Marches was outside the Imperium, so there were some loads of deportees dumped there. These deportations differed a lot. Some Imperial generals just had them stuffed into transports and dumped with little or no equipment on the first convenient world and the lousier, the better. Others paid for a reasonable amount of colonist gear (probably out of the confiscated estates of the losers, but still...) and gave orders that they should be set down on a reasonably nice world.

Then, around 200, the Imperium began moving into the Marches in earnest. The bulk of the Imperials probably came from Deneb and Corridor.

So Arden could have been settled in 96 by a bunch of well-equipped deportees from the Imperial core. Or in 200 by a group from somewhere in Deneb, but I'd like to give Arden a head start in building up its population.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120.

No, the Arden Society is history either way. It is toppled in 1110. That's CT canon, not BtC.

BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

"Because Y contradicts previously published information without being a vast improvement and Z is self-contradictory."

I use the same yardstick with regard to BtC as I do with all canon material: Does it make sense (or can it be made to make sense)? If not, toss it. Does it fit with other bits of canon? If not, is one bit much better than the other? If so, keep that bit and toss the other. If they're of a muchness, which one came first? Keep that one and toss the other.

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?

The times (in the TU) changed.

(Note: The following is heavily laced with my own, non-canonical ideas. I like to think that they fit with canon, but that don't mean that I'm claiming that everything I write below has canonical backing.)

Long range colonization is difficult and expensive. That doesn't mean it never happens. It just means that it is rare. I think the Spinward Marches is so far from the Solomani Rim that colonization from one to the other is very unlikely. If I myself were writing the background for the first time, I'd probably stick to only one and have the Darrians be uplifted by someone else from closer by. But unlikely things do happen occasionally, so I'm not upset about having two successful long range expeditions in 3,000 years. But when BtC uses the Marches as a sort of America to the Rim's Europe, with half a dozen RoM colonies, my belief suspenders snap.

Now, I wouldn't consider half a dozen Long Night colonies in the Marches unlikely if they came from Vland or Lishun or even Core. But as it happens, early canonical material established that by historical accident all the expeditions that headed that way settled in Deneb and the Trojan Reach (Maybe they followed the edge of the Rift?

). So as it happened the Spinward Marches beat the odds in the opposite direction and were mostly left alone through most of the Long Night.

But in 60 things began to change. Scout expeditions brought word back to the Imperium about all these fallow worlds lying far from the Imperial border, and some utopians outfitted long range expeditions to get there precisely because it was a long way from the Imperium. Some of them undoubtedly failed and others settled along the way, in Corridor and Deneb sectors, but enough made it to settle Regina, Ruie, and a small number of other worlds. Then, during the Pacification Campaigns, it occasionally happened that a "pacification" ended with the Imperium offering the losers (or at least the hard core of the losers) free transport to some place outside the Imperium in exchange for their surrender. At that time most of the Marches was outside the Imperium, so there were some loads of deportees dumped there. These deportations differed a lot. Some Imperial generals just had them stuffed into transports and dumped with little or no equipment on the first convenient world and the lousier, the better. Others paid for a reasonable amount of colonist gear (probably out of the confiscated estates of the losers, but still...) and gave orders that they should be set down on a reasonably nice world.

Then, around 200, the Imperium began moving into the Marches in earnest. The bulk of the Imperials probably came from Deneb and Corridor.

So Arden could have been settled in 96 by a bunch of well-equipped deportees from the Imperial core. Or in 200 by a group from somewhere in Deneb, but I'd like to give Arden a head start in building up its population.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
rancke wrote viz Arden:

"This (the item in GT:BtC) can be explained by a change in government between 1107 and 1120."

It can also be explained by ignoring BtC altogther. The Arden Society mentioned in pre-BtC materials is the group changed the government between 1107 and 1120.

No, the Arden Society is history either way. It is toppled in 1110. That's CT canon, not BtC.

BtC is badly broken and should be handled as such. I'm for throwing the baby out with the bathwater in the case of BtC, otherwise we run the risk of being accused of 'cherry picking'; i.e. the complaint would be 'If you used X from BtC, why not Y & Z too?'

"Because Y contradicts previously published information without being a vast improvement and Z is self-contradictory."

I use the same yardstick with regard to BtC as I do with all canon material: Does it make sense (or can it be made to make sense)? If not, toss it. Does it fit with other bits of canon? If not, is one bit much better than the other? If so, keep that bit and toss the other. If they're of a muchness, which one came first? Keep that one and toss the other.

I also find your suggestion that the original settlers of Arden be refugees from the Imperial Core rather puzzling. IIRC, long range colonization is generally a 'no-no' IYTU. Have things changed?

The times (in the TU) changed.

(Note: The following is heavily laced with my own, non-canonical ideas. I like to think that they fit with canon, but that don't mean that I'm claiming that everything I write below has canonical backing.)

Long range colonization is difficult and expensive. That doesn't mean it never happens. It just means that it is rare. I think the Spinward Marches is so far from the Solomani Rim that colonization from one to the other is very unlikely. If I myself were writing the background for the first time, I'd probably stick to only one and have the Darrians be uplifted by someone else from closer by. But unlikely things do happen occasionally, so I'm not upset about having two successful long range expeditions in 3,000 years. But when BtC uses the Marches as a sort of America to the Rim's Europe, with half a dozen RoM colonies, my belief suspenders snap.

Now, I wouldn't consider half a dozen Long Night colonies in the Marches unlikely if they came from Vland or Lishun or even Core. But as it happens, early canonical material established that by historical accident all the expeditions that headed that way settled in Deneb and the Trojan Reach (Maybe they followed the edge of the Rift?

). So as it happened the Spinward Marches beat the odds in the opposite direction and were mostly left alone through most of the Long Night.

But in 60 things began to change. Scout expeditions brought word back to the Imperium about all these fallow worlds lying far from the Imperial border, and some utopians outfitted long range expeditions to get there precisely because it was a long way from the Imperium. Some of them undoubtedly failed and others settled along the way, in Corridor and Deneb sectors, but enough made it to settle Regina, Ruie, and a small number of other worlds. Then, during the Pacification Campaigns, it occasionally happened that a "pacification" ended with the Imperium offering the losers (or at least the hard core of the losers) free transport to some place outside the Imperium in exchange for their surrender. At that time most of the Marches was outside the Imperium, so there were some loads of deportees dumped there. These deportations differed a lot. Some Imperial generals just had them stuffed into transports and dumped with little or no equipment on the first convenient world and the lousier, the better. Others paid for a reasonable amount of colonist gear (probably out of the confiscated estates of the losers, but still...) and gave orders that they should be set down on a reasonably nice world.

Then, around 200, the Imperium began moving into the Marches in earnest. The bulk of the Imperials probably came from Deneb and Corridor.

So Arden could have been settled in 96 by a bunch of well-equipped deportees from the Imperial core. Or in 200 by a group from somewhere in Deneb, but I'd like to give Arden a head start in building up its population.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

He doesn't have to. I'm the one who claims that long range colonization is bloody expensive and hence rare.

As it happened, I did have to explain the Sword Worlds, and a tough time the playtesters gave me about it too . I reccomend you go buy GT:Sword Worlds straight away. That will enrich your TU and swell my bank balance, thus making us both happy.

Short version: The Sword Worlders were a freak occurrence; a long concatenation of low-probability events that just happened to come off.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

He doesn't have to. I'm the one who claims that long range colonization is bloody expensive and hence rare.

As it happened, I did have to explain the Sword Worlds, and a tough time the playtesters gave me about it too . I reccomend you go buy GT:Sword Worlds straight away. That will enrich your TU and swell my bank balance, thus making us both happy.

Short version: The Sword Worlders were a freak occurrence; a long concatenation of low-probability events that just happened to come off.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Larsen,

How do you explain the Sword Worlds then?

He doesn't have to. I'm the one who claims that long range colonization is bloody expensive and hence rare.

As it happened, I did have to explain the Sword Worlds, and a tough time the playtesters gave me about it too . I reccomend you go buy GT:Sword Worlds straight away. That will enrich your TU and swell my bank balance, thus making us both happy.

Short version: The Sword Worlders were a freak occurrence; a long concatenation of low-probability events that just happened to come off.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Aramis:
The Swordies are a pre-jump/Early-jump colonial effort from Terra, IIRC.

Late Long Night, actually. Left Terra in -420 and settled Gram in -399. Why it took them 21 years to get from Terra to Gram was one of the things I had to explain...


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Aramis:
The Swordies are a pre-jump/Early-jump colonial effort from Terra, IIRC.

Late Long Night, actually. Left Terra in -420 and settled Gram in -399. Why it took them 21 years to get from Terra to Gram was one of the things I had to explain...


Hans