OK, I'll bite. Which world in Aramis subsector do you consider as practicing chattel slavery?
(I added the qualifier since this is the kind of slavery prohibited by the Imperium; see the Warrant of Restoration).
Hans
Extreme Medical Costs
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OK, I'll bite. Which world in Aramis subsector do you consider as practicing chattel slavery?
(I added the qualifier since this is the kind of slavery prohibited by the Imperium; see the Warrant of Restoration).
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Not just slavery - sex slavery.
Paya.
They get around the slavery rules by getting their sex slaves to sign contracts
No civilised society would turn a blind eye to what is going on on Paya, yet the Imperium is not bothered in the slightest.
So long as a world pays its taxes, and megacorps can make a profit, worlds can do what they like. I sometimes wonder what the dukes actually do for their duchies citizens?
Paya.
They get around the slavery rules by getting their sex slaves to sign contracts
No civilised society would turn a blind eye to what is going on on Paya, yet the Imperium is not bothered in the slightest.
So long as a world pays its taxes, and megacorps can make a profit, worlds can do what they like. I sometimes wonder what the dukes actually do for their duchies citizens?
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Not just slavery - sex slavery.
Paya.
They get around the slavery rules by getting their sex slaves to sign contracts
Not chattel slavery then. Not debt bondage either. In other words, the Payans get around the slavery rules by not employing slavery. How sneaky of them.
I'm not going to defend what is going on on Paya, but your moral outrage aside, it's not slavery. Certainly the Chosen of Cratersea is morally in the wrong (by 21st Century Western standards :devil
to enforce the contract on Celia, but some host mothers presumably read the contract they sign before they sign them.These are offworlders. That means that either they don't need to take the job but choose to do so, or their OWN government allows them to live in such destitution that they are forced to take these jobs.
They make sure the Imperial laws are followed, curb the activities of the megacorporations and lesser interstellar corporations, protect them from foreign aggression, and presumably (this part is surmise) provide other service such as disaster relief and mediation of diplomatic conflicts.
What they don't do is provide 100% perfect government everywhere all the time.
Hans
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....but Genocide:
Definition of GENOCIDE
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.
The Solomani Rim War? Very much by old Terran standards it could be considered as much and probably is represented as so in Solomani propaganda. It would also have far reaching political consequences in the Solomani Confederation of putting the extremists in power as the moderates power of compromise would be nullified by war and the Imperial policy of not recognizing the Solomani desire of self-determination. The Argon Gambit even shows the Imperium freely manipulates Solomani politics and thus treats them as a subject people.
It is funny for all the evidence that the Imperium is not all beer and skittles people still will believe the Imperial propaganda that "We're the Good Guys!"
Ah, yes, the Solomani Rim War. That's the one that was started because the government of the Autonomous Region oppressed and persecuted the people of thier worlds based on racial grounds and the Imperium stepped in to protect them, right?
Where do you get the idea that the Imperium ever tried to destroy Solomani as a racial, political, or cultural group? It tried to destroy a Solomani government that did just that to non-Solomani, but IIRC Solomani parties are allowed on Imperial worlds as long as they confine themselves to peaceful methods.
It's funny that some people believe that there are only two possibilities to any situation. Just because the Imperium profess to be unable to run the lives of 15 trillion people for them doesn't mean it doesn't try to do the best it can.
Not that I believe the Imperium doesn't have its share of rotten apples. But I believe in the good faith of Strephon, which means that the rules are as benevolent as they can be. How many of the dukes actually enforce the rules by choice and how much control Strephon can exercise over the dukes who don't is another question.
Hans
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No, the Solomani Rim War started because the megacorporations stood to lose a shed load of money if the Solies gained independence...
No, the Solomani Rim War started because the megacorporations stood to lose a shed load of money if the Solies gained independence...
Slavery and genocide for the love of money, sounds like wonderful place, a virtual paradise. Damn that Dulinor the Black! :devil:
No, the Solomani Rim War started because the megacorporations stood to lose a shed load of money if the Solies gained independence...
I'm sorry, I hadn't realized that we'd stopped basing our arguments on logic and evidence and started making things up out of thin air.
I guess I can tell the REAL truth, then. The Imperium is actually controlled by a secret cabal of immortal psionics who uses the Imperium to prevent the emergence of dangerous rivals. Everything the nobles and megacorporations do are part of subtle plans -- plans so subtle that I can't possibly explain them -- to promote this agenda.
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You missed out the robots...
but seriously, war is politics/economics by other means to paraphrase. If you really think the third Imperium went to war because of the oppressiveness of the Solie government then you are more naive than I thought.
The OTU setting has always been about what's going on behind the scenes.
The only reason for the Imperium to want to prevent the breakaway of the Solies is economics. The excuse is another issue.
but seriously, war is politics/economics by other means to paraphrase. If you really think the third Imperium went to war because of the oppressiveness of the Solie government then you are more naive than I thought.
The OTU setting has always been about what's going on behind the scenes.
The only reason for the Imperium to want to prevent the breakaway of the Solies is economics. The excuse is another issue.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
At the end of the Interstellar Wars the Terrans were using artificially intelligent robots (note AI NOT AS - artificial sentience).
These robots assisted the Terrans in the Rule of Man or second Imperium (though technically it is still the first Imperium just now with a Terran emperor).
The robots got cleverer over time and at some point realised what would eventually happen, they would replace the humans. The humans would resist, there would be war, destruction etc. so the robots decided to just leave. No robots to run the banking and trading systems meant the Imperial economy collapsed and brought about the long night.
The robots are still out there...
These robots assisted the Terrans in the Rule of Man or second Imperium (though technically it is still the first Imperium just now with a Terran emperor).
The robots got cleverer over time and at some point realised what would eventually happen, they would replace the humans. The humans would resist, there would be war, destruction etc. so the robots decided to just leave. No robots to run the banking and trading systems meant the Imperial economy collapsed and brought about the long night.
The robots are still out there...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
This has got to be the record for thread drift...
Don't forget what happened to the Ael Yael.
Slavery and genocide that went on for about 70 years.
Ultimately, even the subsector duke was persecuted for being complicit with the whole affair... ( must have been all that bribe monies flying about )
70 years without Imperial notice and the main nobles in the area did nothing.
95% of the Ael Yael died.
Imperium said "oh... we were preoccupied with the Ilelish revolt, sorry."
Obviously the Imps totally suck at multitasking.
Ilelish revolt was the one that ended with the best parts of the Ilelish homewards surface being scraped down to bedrock for attempting to secede when the Imperium's policies were wrecking the Ilelish worlds' economies.
Nice.
Slavery and genocide that went on for about 70 years.
Ultimately, even the subsector duke was persecuted for being complicit with the whole affair... ( must have been all that bribe monies flying about )
70 years without Imperial notice and the main nobles in the area did nothing.
95% of the Ael Yael died.
Imperium said "oh... we were preoccupied with the Ilelish revolt, sorry."
Obviously the Imps totally suck at multitasking.
Ilelish revolt was the one that ended with the best parts of the Ilelish homewards surface being scraped down to bedrock for attempting to secede when the Imperium's policies were wrecking the Ilelish worlds' economies.
Nice.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The robots are - the take on them is MTU stuff, it is the IMTU forum after all
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No no no - the Imperium did this because those nasty rulers of Ilelish were oppressing their own citizens...
oh, wait, wanted to leave the Imperium and take all their money with them you say...
The robots are - the take on them is MTU stuff, it is the IMTU forum after all
Mmmmmmm.... ancient terry bots meet virus..... Mechanoids! :devil:
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
This thread has Misjumped. Be prepared to be many light years off your original course.
Economic factors are powerful motivators, no argument there, but if you really think that they're the only causes of wars then you're closing your eyes to every bit of history that doesn't have the decency to confirm you preconceptions.
You may be right. If you are ever chosen to write up the Solomani Rim War and choose to put that spin on it, I wouldn't object at all. But until that happens, you don't have a scintilla of evidence to back up your assertations.
Hans
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Perhaps I'm overstating my point. I have no doubt that there would be many reasons for the Imperium to go to war agains the breakaway Solomani, I just don't believe the brief description we have in Library Data is the whole story.
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