Do the Citizens of the Imperium Accept or Reject Piracy

[kafka47]

I was reflecting upon history and thought how piracy may actually be a benefit for certain worlds in the Imperium. All to often in Traveller we have been asking the hows or the ecology questions.

For Traveller citizens certainly would reject downright thievery but they might accept something like highway robbery.

Certainly, worlds that are backwaters would welcome new luxury products that pirates would attempt to dump their way. Also, any government involved in a bootstrap program would welcome the latest wares to attempt to reverse engineer. Piracy could also a be a boon for local industries wanting to mass produce a speciality item traded between Worlds A and D but B can get it over to C at cheaper price. Certainly, I can see elements of the Nobility looking the other way or providing for a well funded planetary Navy to fly in the other direction (hence not raising the suspicion of the IN) in order to "acquire" the latest toys. Sure, there is moral motivation not to buy pirated goods, but who thinks of that when they visit a pawn shop or go to somewhere like Russia. Natives, may also wish employment from pirates...servicing starships and doing customizations in chop shops would be a significant source of income in small planetary economies lacking a Type A Starport. Also, the desire to rebel against authority be it the Imperium or Megacorporations, would have some driving motivations. Certainly, also societies where patent law is much more lax...the legal sanction against piracy would also be lax.

What do others think?

 

[sabredog]

Some out of the way world might have a navigation beacon that could be used to lure unsuspecting crews to a false SOS where they are waylaid by local pirates in fast cutters or pinnaces. Kind of like the old fake lighthouse trick.

Or they might have a scam running with the local constabulary who charge a ruinous fee to "rescue" them fro, the pirate attack...can't pay?, well then either the pirates take what they want, or maybe something can be "worked out" by way of goods in lieu of the fee.

Either of these might help boost the local economy so long as the targeted crews don't suspect the truth. If that happens, well space can big a dangerous place and dead men tell no tales.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I'm sure the common Citizen finds Piracy detestable, but when they are buying at the Trader's Bazaar, they probably wouldn't know a Pirate from an honest Trader. Space is big, really big - and the one with the most Credits wins. A Pirate wouldn't think twice about lying about who they are to make a profit. Now the Pirates that are out there for other than monetary reasons are a whole 'nuther ball of starwax. Some do it for the excitement, some for revenge. Some men just like to see the universe burn. Depends on if the news media paints the Pirates as terrorists or more the Robin Hood type whether the Citizens think they are bad or not. Word of mouth at the starports goes a long way, too. If the Pirates attack a ship, but leave the crew alive and just take the loot, they'll get a reputation as merciful. Might even get recruits that way. If they space the crew or destroy the ship, then the fear builds. A Duke's wife who's afraid of getting aboard an outbound ship is a sure way to get the Imperial Navy on the scene in a hurry.

It all depends on what the specific Pirate group does or is accused of doing.

 

[ganymede]

Yo ho, yo ho it's a Flaming Eye for me...!

Let's not forget Letters of Marque! Or Mark, however you want to spell it....

Sactioned piracy, or 'Harrying the enemy's supply lines' as it's often referred to. It's quite plain that disputes between worlds, as long as they remain between worlds, are usually left alone by the Imperium. Now I could see the Imps coming down hard on a world that launches an unprovoked attack, but I can envision squabbles happening every so often between member worlds, there are eleven thousand of them, after all!

So low level attacks on shipping, ie piracy, would be the choice, and, disavowing the privateers actions would make it seem like the initiating world was just an innocent bystander... and then wham! they send in their commandoes, take out the other guy's leader, and bam! Govt type 6 baby!

 

[mike wightman]

As I've posted before, I believe most 'piracy' in the early OTU is actually sponsored by both nobles of one subsector against their enemies and megacorps against their rivals.

They may call it trade war, or issue letters of marque, but it is still piracy if you are on the receiving end.

It's the only way I could make sense of a 7 term career with pension and purpose built ships.

There will also be pirate acts commited by ethically challenged merchants and some less than honest world governments.

 

[Spinward Scout]

It's the only way I could make sense of a 7 term career with pension and purpose built ships.

"That's not a Corsair. It's a... a... a "Free" Trader. It's not my fault if that other ship wants to just give it's cargo away."

 

[spinwardpirate]

Some countries on planet Earth accept it. Some worlds in the Imperium accept it. What more is there to say?

 

[rancke]

Let's not forget Letters of Marque! Or Mark, however you want to spell it....

Sanctioned piracy, or 'Harrying the enemy's supply lines' as it's often referred to.

This is a common fallacy. 'Sanctioned piracy' is a contradiction in terms. If it's sanctioned, it is, by definition, not piracy. And there are at least two very practical difference, too: 1) Pirates have to fence their loot, privateers can sell it legally. 2) Captured pirates are executed (or subject to whatever lesser punishment the capturing country imposes on pirates), privateers get treated as prisoners of war.

Don't underestimate the importance of point 1. Pirates are lucky if they sell their loot for 20% of its value, privateers get full value.

It's quite plain that disputes between worlds, as long as they remain between worlds, are usually left alone by the Imperium.

Not so. It's quite plain that dispute between political entities on the same world are left alone by the Imperium as long as they stay within acceptable bounds (And "acceptable bounds" is undefined and subject to the whim of the local Imperial duke). It's extremely debatable how tolerant the Imperium is of interstellar conflicts.

Now I could see the Imps coming down hard on a world that launches an unprovoked attack, but I can envision squabbles happening every so often between member worlds, there are eleven thousand of them, after all!

Note that I'm not ruling out the possibility that the Imperium would allow a conflict between member worlds, especially if its unclear which one is the aggressor and the member worlds have powerful planetary navies. Just saying that it wouldn't be subject to the same tolerance as conflicts between planetary entities.

So low level attacks on shipping, ie piracy, would be the choice, and, disavowing the privateers actions would make it seem like the initiating world was just an innocent bystander... and then wham! they send in their commandoes, take out the other guy's leader, and bam! Govt type 6 baby!

This (one world actually taking over a neighbor), OTOH, is explicitly mentioned, at least by implication. See the library data entry about the Imperial Rules of War. The Imperium will intervene if a conflict shows 'excessive interplanetary influence'. The interference by one outside organization (this would include other governments, I think) in the affairs of a world is tolerated only when said interference is deemed appropriate to to the level of legitimate interest in the affairs of the world held by the extraplanetary organization. So unless the Imperium actually thinks that a world is entitled to conquer a neighbor, it would interfere.

I'll add something that's not mentioned explicitly anywhere, but which I think is a logical assumption: That each world's membership treaty with the Imperium would include a commitment from the Imperium to defend the world against outside aggression. As long as conflict is between different segments of a world, such a provision would not apply. As long as any outside aid is limited in scope to mercenaries, 'military advisers' and a bit of equipment, it would not necessarily apply. But if another world actually put its own national troops down on the surface and started throwing its weight about...


Hans

 

[aramis]

Hans:
Sanctioned Piracy/Sacntioned Pirate is a term used historically for the other side's privateers. It also was used for flagging pirates with military jacks.

Privateers, when caught, are usually tried as pirates, since with few exceptions, being caught meant being caught by the guys you were preying upon, their allies, or neutrals.

 

[rancke]

Hans:
Sanctioned Piracy/Sacntioned Pirate is a term used historically for the other side's privateers. It also was used for flagging pirates with military jacks.

Privateers, when caught, are usually tried as pirates, since with few exceptions, being caught meant being caught by the guys you were preying upon, their allies, or neutrals.

This is not true. Historically, privateers were treated as pirates if they had acted as pirates. By both sides. But if they stuck to the rules governing their profession, they were treated as legitimate combattants.

Sure, the enemy was probably a lot more willing to decide that the rules had been broken than the friendlies, but that's an extra-legal matter.



Hans

 

[sabredog]

Here is a Letter of Marque I modified from an actual one issued by the British in the War of 1812. Some minor differences having to due with only the issuing parties and the terminology aside, the only deletion was that the commander of the privateer was to "duly observe and log any and all movements and rumors of enemy shipping and traffic, and report such to the nearest of His Majesty's forces at all haste." This marque is for the current trade war over some valuable shipping routes and newly found worlds.


Whereas, by His Majesty's Commission under the Great Seal of The Empire of Man bearing Date the 13th Day of June in the year of Our Lord 2466, and in the 18th Year of His Imperial Majesty's Reign, the Lords Commissioners for executing the Office of Lord High Admiral are required and authorized to issue forth and grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal to any of His Majesty's Subjects or others, whom we shall deem fitly qualified in that Behalf of His loyal Chartered Companies for apprehending, seizing, and taking the Ships, Vessels, Crews and Goods belonging to Drakensberg LIC, (save and except for any Ships to which license has been granted) and to bring the same to Judgment in any of His Majesty's Prize Courts under the Auspices of Imperial Licensee Lloyd’s of New London, for Proceedings and Adjudication and Condemnation to be thereupon had, according to the auspices of said Licensee, and the Laws of Corporate Trade War; These are, therefore, to will and require you to cause a Letter of Marque and Reprisals to be issued under Imperial Authority granted of Cimmerron Ores, and Lloyd’s of New London unto Captain Sir Jacob Molineaux, Commander of the Commerce Raider “Better Duck!” of about 250 Tons, mounted with Weapons sufficient to engage and defeat the Enemy.
Whereas the said Captain Sir Jacob Molineaux is, as Master and Commander, to apprehend, seize, and take the Ships, Vessels and Goods Belonging to Drakensberg LIC, or to any Persons being Employees of Drakensberg LIC, according to His Majesty's Commission and Instruction aforesaid. And you are to keep an exact Journal of Proceedings, and therein particularly to take notice of all Prizes taken, the nature of such Prizes, the Time and Place of their being taken, the value of them as near as you can judge so as to receive due and just compensation of aforesaid Prizes from His Majesty's Agents.
Said Letters of Marque and Reprisal to continue in force until cessation of Hostilities under the Rules and Laws of Corporate Trade War, for which this shall be your Warrant. Until such time, as Master and Commander of the above rendered Vessel of Corporate Trade War under Imperial License you are deemed as indemnified from hindering and detainment by Imperial Vessels of War and Legal Authority as a Pirate upon presentation of this Letter of Marque as adequate Proof of Imperial Authority.
Given under my Hand, and the Great Seal of The Empire of Man this 13 day of June 2466 in the 18th year of His Imperial Majesty Hans Molitor I. God Save the Emperor.

By His Excellency's Command,
His Loyal and Excellent Servant Duke Daniel Hamilton Canarven III, KB, KG

 

[boomslang]

What do others think?

One word:

Tradewar.

The only difference between a tradewarrior and a corsair is that a tradewarrior (nominally) has the backing of a megacorporation (which itself has the backing of the nobility).

Piracy, under a variety of euphemisms and concealing practices, is an integral part of the economic functioning of the Third Imperium; remember: the 3I is little more than a powerful military coalition empowered to protect the economic interests of its ruling class at any cost. This is why member worlds are allowed such a large degree of governmental autonomy; so long as Tukera and the other megas can control commerce, nothing else is of concern.

"Piracy" is what a megacorporation labels its own business practices when they are utilized by less well-connected competitors. The fact that the Free Trader my family has booked passage on could be "accidentally" holed by a mercenary unit hired to protect offworld/outsystem mercantile interests causes no crowned heads any loss of sleep...

Why do you think starship armaments are exempt from local law levels? A "reasonable amount of trouble" is expected to come with the territory, Traveller.

 

[rancke]

One word:

Tradewar.

The only difference between a tradewarrior and a corsair is that a tradewarrior (nominally) has the backing of a megacorporation (which itself has the backing of the nobility).

"Violence being generally illegal, tradewar is practical only in situations where its perpetrators can assume there will be no reprisals from the law. Sometimes, a company with great resources can bribe or coerce government into looking the other way. More often, tradewar's violence finds a setting on the frontiers of the Imperium or beyond its borders. Since the Imperial navy and other law enforcement arms cannot be everywhere at once, tradewar cannot be eliminated as an outlet for corporate rivalry." [TTA:108]

"Tradewar actions generally consists of a series of covert raids against the enemy company. Open assault is virtually never advisable, if only because it provides bad press and it is difficult to conceal the responsibility for the action." [TTA:109]

Tradewar is illegal, it is expensive, and it works only away from where military vessels patrol. It does have one advantage over piracy: It doesn't have to pay for itself (except as potential profits once the competitor has been driven off). Tradewar is not piracy, although raids can be disguised as pirate activity.

Piracy, under a variety of euphemisms and concealing practices, is an integral part of the economic functioning of the Third Imperium; remember: the 3I is little more than a powerful military coalition empowered to protect the economic interests of its ruling class at any cost. This is why member worlds are allowed such a large degree of governmental autonomy; so long as Tukera and the other megas can control commerce, nothing else is of concern.

Well, that's one way to interpret the available evidence. It's not the indiputable fact you seem to think it is.


Hans

 

[boomslang]

It's not the indiputable fact you seem to think it is.


Hans

At least I am not swallowing the Imperialist propoganda whole...

:smirk:

I'll see your disinformation about "limited" tradewar and raise you the Imperial Rules of War.

Riddle me this: if piracy is not rampant, why are starship armaments effectively ubiquitous in practice?

:devil:

 

[sabredog]

Because it's more fun that way?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

The Baron Regina votes "Nay" to Piracy!

As the Baron representing the People and System of Regina, in the Spinward Marches and a Knight (in Good Standing) of the Order of the Spinward Marches (who are Charged to keep the Space Lanes clear for the safety of Pilgrims, Citizens, and all true and good Travellers), I feel I must vote a strong and forceful answer of "NAY!" to any Act of Piracy.

I now return to the transcripts and shall review other opinions.

Baron Regina also speaks with the Authority of the County of Efate and for the Subjects, Citizens and other Constituents of Count Ivor hault-Daarnulud and his Holdings.

 

[rancke]

At least I am not swallowing the Imperialist propoganda whole...

That wasn't Imperialist propaganda, that was Authorial Voice information.

I'll see your disinformation about "limited" tradewar and raise you the Imperial Rules of War.

Which deals with conflicts between subdvisions of member worlds, not tradewar and piracy. What about them do you feel support your interpretation?

Riddle me this: if piracy is not rampant, why are starship armaments effectively ubiquitous in practice?

Ah yes, that's a big conundrum. Almost as big as this one: If starship armaments are ubiquitous, why is piracy rampant?

After all, an armed free trader has a good chance of fighting off a canonical pirate ship, inflicting millions of credits worth of damages in the process, or even capturing it. Which is nice from the point of view of the PCs crewing the free trader, but does rather tend to put a crimp in the viability of piracy as a commercial buiness venture.


Hans

 

[rancke]

As the Baron representing the People and System of Regina [...]

Baron Regina also speaks with the Authority of the County of Efate and for the Subjects, Citizens and other Constituents of Count Ivor hault-Daarnulud and his Holdings.

That must be a bit of surprise for Norris of Regina and Josephine of Efate.


Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

What, Norris is Duke of Regina, and the Count's Domains are mostly Orbital.

That must be a bit of surprise for Norris of Regina and Josephine of Efate.


Hans

So, who is this Josephine of Efate anyway, never heard of her around the Moot? And as I stated, Baron Regina speaks for himself, the Duke of Regina, Norris can of course express his own and probably superior views on the subject, I mean the man was INI after all.

 

[atpollard]

Hans:
Sanctioned Piracy/Sacntioned Pirate is a term used historically for the other side's privateers. It also was used for flagging pirates with military jacks.

Privateers, when caught, are usually tried as pirates, since with few exceptions, being caught meant being caught by the guys you were preying upon, their allies, or neutrals.

Just to try and get a handle on this on a less abstract level, are there any 'privateers' from after the year 1900? Were they captured as POWs?

I believe that WW2 U-boat crews recieved a cold reception. While not 'privateers' they certainly were 'Combatants' (rather than Pirates) and yet they tended to not be taken as POWs (AFAIK).

It would seem contrary to human nature to treat those who prey on civilians as 'soldiers' ...
"Captain, The Privateers fell for the trap, they are abandoning their ship." "Tell the gunners to shift target to the lifeboats. This ends here and now... [whisper] this is for you, Andrew. Rest in peace."