Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Also, hundred tonnes volume is the minimum requirement to translate down the rabbit hole.
Displacement of Jump-Stuff
- Thread starter BwapTED
- Start date
Whould you be so kind as to indicate me where? AFAIK, canon says nothing about it, so making both possibilites (there's nothing or there's something there, even something we don't know) posible.
See that, unless this is among the laws of the physics that don't apply in jumpspace (again, AFAIK not specified in canon), a boubble needs something to contain it. Otherways, the matter on it simply disperses and the boubble exists no more...
When did that become the case, in the rules? High Guard?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Word from God, apparently, secondhand through one of the apostles, I forget which.
That makes sense.
I mean, it may be implied in the range of standard hull sizes, 100 to 5000 tons.
On the other hand, my 1977 Book 2 definitely says custom hull sizes up to 5K tons are an option.
So that would presumably include smaller vessels.
I'd read the tables as a series of breakpoints, up to such and such a tonnage.
So a 4500 ton vessel counts as 5K tons for purposes of figuring our performance of M drive and what jump rating is possible.
Another tangent:
Book 2 , 1977, says
I read that as the jump is probably near instantaneous, but the starship computers, the pilot, navigator, engineer, etc. are busy for about a week setting up and initiating the jump sequence.
The language in the 1981 book is rather different, describing things like one week in a star system and then "one week in jump."
It seems to me that jump is a lot of prep and then a sudden leap in 1977, but shifts to a week in jump space, in 1981.
Is that right?
Book 2 , 1977, says
I read that as the jump is probably near instantaneous, but the starship computers, the pilot, navigator, engineer, etc. are busy for about a week setting up and initiating the jump sequence.
The language in the 1981 book is rather different, describing things like one week in a star system and then "one week in jump."
It seems to me that jump is a lot of prep and then a sudden leap in 1977, but shifts to a week in jump space, in 1981.
Is that right?
I've seen it defended by Marc from discussions in email. So, yeah, it's the rule.
Note that the definitions of ship, small craft, starship, and non-starship appear in CT...
In B2-77, starships all have a JD and a minimum size for performance purposes of 100 tons; any smaller hull is treated as 100Td per the rules on page 10; note that the minimum price of a custom hull is that of a 200 ton hull.
Bk2-81 adds the following: restriction
Definitions: A vessel is any interplanetary or interstellar vehicle. A ship is any vessel of 100 tons or more. A starship is a ship which has jump drives and can travel on interstellar voyages. A non-starship is a ship without jump drives. A small craft is any vessel under 100 tons; all small craft are incapable of jump.
Note that last "... all small craft are incapable of jump."
Right, so it's open to interpretation in 1977, but made very clear in clear in 1981.
That's why jump torpedoes vanished in 1981, yes? Too small.
I see the pilot as a limitation. Page 16, Book 2 (1977) says a starship must have at least a pilot. He also acts as navigator if it's a smaller size of starship.
Looking at the notes in 1977 about pilot and navigational support, it seems to me that this implies unmanned jumps don't work.
But I see AI listed as tl 17.
Maybe jump torpedoes are very high TL devices, with an AI pilot?
I'd probably allow them at TL 16 with a primitive, jump-focused AI pilot that gets wiped by transit, like a jump cassette.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Technically, it could, if it fulfilled all the relevant requirements.
Ten tonne jump drive, computer, software, bridge and a net total of a hundred tonnes.
Ten tonne jump drive, computer, software, bridge and a net total of a hundred tonnes.
It still needs a pilot, though, no?
So the X Boat is basically a jump capable message torpedo with a different name?
Like those mini submersible sleds labeled 'torpedoes'?
The XBoat is a quirky design, no matter which ruleset you build it under.
In CT-77, it's technically legal, but not needed, as you can build a legal J4 M1 design:
| Td | Item |
| 20 | bridge |
| 15 | JD B=4 |
| _4 | PP A=1 |
| _1 | MD A=1 |
| 8 | SR x 2 |
| 40 | PPF |
| 10 | PPF |
| _2 | Model 2 |
It's a capable J4, Bk2-77 courier design for messages...
MGT1, it's also possible to make a 1G J4 courrier. Short the cargo for sensors, and it makes a decent fleet scout. See:
| Td | Item |
| 10 | Bridge |
| 0 | Model 4 |
| 15 | JD B=4 |
| _7 | PP B=4 |
| _2 | MD A=1 |
| _4 | PFuel |
| 40 | JFuel |
| _8 | SR x 2 |
| _4 | Cargo |
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Now you need forty scotts or energy points for a four parsec transition, which incidentally is what a one tonne technological level ten battery holds.
Another tangential thought:
It seems to me the big implication of my reading on jump in the 1977 (that it takes about a week of prep work, pilot and navigational support, and so on--but doesn't mean spending a week in jump space) is that starships cannot so easily escape or avoid combat by jumping.
They need to fly to a safe distance from any enemies, first, then prep the jump.
This has ramifications for system defense, ship to ship combat, and piracy.
It seems to me the big implication of my reading on jump in the 1977 (that it takes about a week of prep work, pilot and navigational support, and so on--but doesn't mean spending a week in jump space) is that starships cannot so easily escape or avoid combat by jumping.
They need to fly to a safe distance from any enemies, first, then prep the jump.
This has ramifications for system defense, ship to ship combat, and piracy.
Cool!
To displace as we understand it you need two objects with volume, both composed of matter. Matter cannot exist naturally in jumpspace which means there is no medium to displace. Not a physical medium that itself occupies volume, in the Archimedean sense.
You guys are very knowledgeable about Traveller.
Here's a question I asked in the 1977 thread:
when did jump space first actually appear in Traveller? In which product?
I don't see ''jump space'' mentioned explicitly anywhere in the 1977 rules, though I might have missed something. It seems implied by a phrase ( "a week in jump') in the 1981 rules, but isn't actually called jump space or described, at least not from what I have seen on this quick read-through.
Did I miss something, or is jump space (not just a jump drive) a later clarification of the rules?
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I've been consistently referenced to a JTAS article from the period.
