Displacement of Jump-Stuff
- Thread starter BwapTED
- Start date
I guess it's just a measurmemt of size, not that it really displaces anything in a practical way.
AFAIK, it's not known if jumpspace its really empty or full, as what we realy know is that it is letal and no one can enter it and survive to tell us. Nor even probes can give us their readings.
AFAIK, it's not known if jumpspace its really empty or full, as what we realy know is that it is letal and no one can enter it and survive to tell us. Nor even probes can give us their readings.
What if the jump-stuff is lethal, and decays very rapidly in real space, but is known to be the same density as liquid hydrogen?
Indeed.
Another possibility is that the displacement is based on diving into gas giants for wilderness refueling.
I'm not convinced this makes sense.
My take is that it is either an arbitrary measurment standard, or based on the fuel tanks capacity (after all, as they're filled with LHyd, is where it makes more sense), but that's just my guess, not based on any evidence.
Canonically there is no fluid or other medium in jumpspace. Jumpspace(s) are simply additional "dimensionalities" beyond the 10 or 11 of current physics models (according to DGP: SOM).
Ship displacement is measured in terms of LHyd volume simply as a convenient metric, since a significant amount of a vessel's internal volume is taken up by LHyd fuel.
Ship displacement is measured in terms of LHyd volume simply as a convenient metric, since a significant amount of a vessel's internal volume is taken up by LHyd fuel.
SOM was a great publication. If you can find a reasonably priced copy on eBay, it is worth getting.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The displacement ton is the volume of hydrogen displaced by 1000kg of liquid hydrogen.
The displacement ton is a result of the scale chosen for mapping deckplans.
In CT 77 the starship ton was mass - 1000kg. But to map a ship the convenient fact that one ton of liquid hydrogen has a volume of 14 cubic metres meant that a deck plan has extensive fuel tanks made the 14 cubic metre fit nicely.
A square 1.5m by 1.5 m, with a 'ceiling' height of 3m from deck to deck gives a volume of 6.75m - or nearly half a displacement ton (volume) of liquid hydrogen.
Using Imperial measurements such as in D&D, squares were typically 5' square, 5x5 with a 'ceiling' of 10' gives a volume of 250 cubic feet, two such squares gives a volume of 500 cubic feet - the volume of 1 ton of liquid hydrogen is approximately 500 cubic feet.
So it just made sense for the displacement ton (14 cubic metres or 500 cubic feet) to become the standard size of a ship ton.
The displacement ton is a result of the scale chosen for mapping deckplans.
In CT 77 the starship ton was mass - 1000kg. But to map a ship the convenient fact that one ton of liquid hydrogen has a volume of 14 cubic metres meant that a deck plan has extensive fuel tanks made the 14 cubic metre fit nicely.
A square 1.5m by 1.5 m, with a 'ceiling' height of 3m from deck to deck gives a volume of 6.75m - or nearly half a displacement ton (volume) of liquid hydrogen.
Using Imperial measurements such as in D&D, squares were typically 5' square, 5x5 with a 'ceiling' of 10' gives a volume of 250 cubic feet, two such squares gives a volume of 500 cubic feet - the volume of 1 ton of liquid hydrogen is approximately 500 cubic feet.
So it just made sense for the displacement ton (14 cubic metres or 500 cubic feet) to become the standard size of a ship ton.
That all makes sense.
I have both the '77' and the '81 rules, and I've been going over both sets as I contemplate a potential CT campaign.
I also have the 1979 HG book.
I'll probably hand-wave the heat issue by saying that ''fuel'' includes heat sinks. It already includes reaction mass (if M drives aren't reactionless, which, I'm given to understand, varies by edition of Traveller).
I don't remember having read anything in canon about it...
According MT:SOM (and IIRC a JTAS article quite before it), the jumpspace(s) are addintional dimensionalities, as you say, but I don't remember it entering on if they are empty, full of any fluid, full of dark matter or whatever.
In any case, I'd say it is irrelevant, as you cannot interact with anything (or nothing) outside your jump boubble when in jumpspace..
Fully agreed here.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's easier to map out space than mass.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
This is my goto website for density figures, whenever I have to say load up a grav vehicle with grain vs. ore vs. people vs. whatever.
https://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm
Here is another good one- just plug in 14 in the m3 field, hit calculate, instant weight.
http://www.allmeasures.com/Formulae/
Tangential reflection on jump:
It seems to me as if jump works like a board game.
The board is flat. Effectively 2 D, just like Traveller star charts. You can move your piece, the starship, X number of squares based on such and such conditions and qualities.
Jump space is the open space above, outside, the board, through which the piece moves.
So, jump space doesn't abide by real space rules because it is not part of the ''board'' of real space.
Movement of real space objects through it and back to real space must follow the game rules.
Displacement is part of the game. Such and such volume can be moved at such and such a distance, with the correct combination of j drive, max hull size, etc.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
SSOM says extra dimensions.
JTAS 24, "Jumpspace" by MWM says:
I'll go with what MWM says...
Since the "ton" is a measure of volume, not mass...
In canon, there is nothing to indicate that jump space has anything "physical" in it. Not like the Fluidic Space ala Star Trek: Voyager and Species 8472. There have been IIRC some reference to psionics using it as the medium, but I might be imagining
To have your cake and eat it too, in-universe...
Perhaps the point of a displacement ton is used because of the hydrogen bubble. T5 (and AotI I think) speak of the hydrogen bubble surrounding the ship to protect it in jump-space. While part of jump is ripping the hole to Jump-Space, a part is used to make the bubble. As part of the futuristic ship design, maybe formulae are related to volume.
"Hmm. 100 ton displacement means I need to generate a bubble of volume X and open a "rip" of size Y. I need Z jump plates...."
Things like that. So volume is important somewhere.
In canon, there is nothing to indicate that jump space has anything "physical" in it. Not like the Fluidic Space ala Star Trek: Voyager and Species 8472. There have been IIRC some reference to psionics using it as the medium, but I might be imagining
To have your cake and eat it too, in-universe...
Perhaps the point of a displacement ton is used because of the hydrogen bubble. T5 (and AotI I think) speak of the hydrogen bubble surrounding the ship to protect it in jump-space. While part of jump is ripping the hole to Jump-Space, a part is used to make the bubble. As part of the futuristic ship design, maybe formulae are related to volume.
"Hmm. 100 ton displacement means I need to generate a bubble of volume X and open a "rip" of size Y. I need Z jump plates...."
Things like that. So volume is important somewhere.
