DGP and all that

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by hunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
Win-lose negotiating is not the way to run a gaming business, however.

Particularly when dealing with Marc...
</font>[/QUOTE]Why would you know that, did you try that tactic at one point?

 

[hunter]

Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS. I have NEVER had an issue with Marc that wasn't resolved easily and amicably just by being honest and discussing it with him.

Frankly there isn't anyone else in this industry I would rather work with than Marc. If it weren't for his advice and mentoring, we (QLI) would have shut down a while ago.

Hunter

 

[hunter]

Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS. I have NEVER had an issue with Marc that wasn't resolved easily and amicably just by being honest and discussing it with him.

Frankly there isn't anyone else in this industry I would rather work with than Marc. If it weren't for his advice and mentoring, we (QLI) would have shut down a while ago.

Hunter

 

[hunter]

Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS. I have NEVER had an issue with Marc that wasn't resolved easily and amicably just by being honest and discussing it with him.

Frankly there isn't anyone else in this industry I would rather work with than Marc. If it weren't for his advice and mentoring, we (QLI) would have shut down a while ago.

Hunter

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by hunter:
Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS.
Hunter

That's it exactly, Hunter. Marc is a good negotiator as long as it is give and take negotiations. And he loves to help tutor a licensee if you show you can actually produce something.

I value Marc's friendship highly and it goes far beyond the game of Traveller.

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by hunter:
Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS.
Hunter

That's it exactly, Hunter. Marc is a good negotiator as long as it is give and take negotiations. And he loves to help tutor a licensee if you show you can actually produce something.

I value Marc's friendship highly and it goes far beyond the game of Traveller.

 

[jfugatesr]

Originally posted by hunter:
Fortunately no, I just know Marc pretty well after doing business with him for a number of years now. Try that kind of tactic with him and he will just walk away. He's more than willing to negotiate, he just won't tolerate hardball BS.
Hunter

That's it exactly, Hunter. Marc is a good negotiator as long as it is give and take negotiations. And he loves to help tutor a licensee if you show you can actually produce something.

I value Marc's friendship highly and it goes far beyond the game of Traveller.

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
I have been doing some thinking lately about what I wouild do if I was Roger. He actually should have done this several years ago to prove he was serious, IMO.

1. Stand up a DGP web site.
These days, you can get a significant amount of web space for less than $10 a month. And there's nothing like a web site to give people the sense that you are really an entity that exists and is doing something. And Roger could probably find one of his buddies who could build a decent site for him.

Apparently he did own "digestgroup.com" for awhile.

2. Offer prior DGP products as a PDF for a price.
To get people interested in the site, Roger could offer things like the first couple issues of Traveller's Digest as free PDFs, and then offer the other PDFs for a charge through paypal. That would get income coming in for a fairly low outlay in cash.

I've had email from Roger several years ago (for why see below) and he wanted to do reprints. The issue (for him) was not cost but apparently Marc wanted full rights to the IP of anything reprinted. (I'll have to go scan the hard disk of my old PC to find Roger's actual wording.)

3. With an income base established, finish AI and market it. Once this was done it could be offered over the web as a PDF, again using paypal. More income.

Even if all Roger did was scan the pages (he has copies of all the products) and put them up (no OCR, even) that's something. He's missing a great opportunity to generate income with this approach, and to make good with Traveller fans, and to introduce new gamers to the genre.

When I sold everything to Roger, I really cleaned house, so I don't even own copies of all the products any more.

In fact, if Roger wanted to, I bet he could work with the fans to get this done, kind of like an "open source" project, so he wouldn't even have to do much of the work. He could make one chapter from each product "free" so people could get a flavor for the product, and then ask for a paypal payment to get the whole PDF.

Several years ago Roger tried pretty much just that. He set up a half-a-dozen internet mailing lists where people were invited to contribute to AI (without pay). Two things of note: Firstly, there was no prior material for AI, we were starting from scratch. Secondly, Roger had expended the concept into a generic game (like GURPS) with AI being one of the campaign worlds. He had one mailing list working on 'core' rules, one working on AI, one working on a 2300AD-like future game, etc.

The problem was a serious lack of project management: He'd make a few inspirational speeches, then stand back and see what happened. A number of volunteers would try and run with the ball ... going in different directions ... and 6 months later Roger would reappear, decide he wasn't happy with any work that actually been done (but being very nice about it), and start the whole process off again. I was one of those involved, but after a year I'd had enough.

What happened after and since is anyone's guess: he's since gone to ground.

(While there was no prior AI material, there was some Traveller material that I managed to snag: some internal DGP mailing list archives, etc.)


Regards PLST

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
I have been doing some thinking lately about what I wouild do if I was Roger. He actually should have done this several years ago to prove he was serious, IMO.

1. Stand up a DGP web site.
These days, you can get a significant amount of web space for less than $10 a month. And there's nothing like a web site to give people the sense that you are really an entity that exists and is doing something. And Roger could probably find one of his buddies who could build a decent site for him.

Apparently he did own "digestgroup.com" for awhile.

2. Offer prior DGP products as a PDF for a price.
To get people interested in the site, Roger could offer things like the first couple issues of Traveller's Digest as free PDFs, and then offer the other PDFs for a charge through paypal. That would get income coming in for a fairly low outlay in cash.

I've had email from Roger several years ago (for why see below) and he wanted to do reprints. The issue (for him) was not cost but apparently Marc wanted full rights to the IP of anything reprinted. (I'll have to go scan the hard disk of my old PC to find Roger's actual wording.)

3. With an income base established, finish AI and market it. Once this was done it could be offered over the web as a PDF, again using paypal. More income.

Even if all Roger did was scan the pages (he has copies of all the products) and put them up (no OCR, even) that's something. He's missing a great opportunity to generate income with this approach, and to make good with Traveller fans, and to introduce new gamers to the genre.

When I sold everything to Roger, I really cleaned house, so I don't even own copies of all the products any more.

In fact, if Roger wanted to, I bet he could work with the fans to get this done, kind of like an "open source" project, so he wouldn't even have to do much of the work. He could make one chapter from each product "free" so people could get a flavor for the product, and then ask for a paypal payment to get the whole PDF.

Several years ago Roger tried pretty much just that. He set up a half-a-dozen internet mailing lists where people were invited to contribute to AI (without pay). Two things of note: Firstly, there was no prior material for AI, we were starting from scratch. Secondly, Roger had expended the concept into a generic game (like GURPS) with AI being one of the campaign worlds. He had one mailing list working on 'core' rules, one working on AI, one working on a 2300AD-like future game, etc.

The problem was a serious lack of project management: He'd make a few inspirational speeches, then stand back and see what happened. A number of volunteers would try and run with the ball ... going in different directions ... and 6 months later Roger would reappear, decide he wasn't happy with any work that actually been done (but being very nice about it), and start the whole process off again. I was one of those involved, but after a year I'd had enough.

What happened after and since is anyone's guess: he's since gone to ground.

(While there was no prior AI material, there was some Traveller material that I managed to snag: some internal DGP mailing list archives, etc.)


Regards PLST

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by JoeFugate:
I have been doing some thinking lately about what I wouild do if I was Roger. He actually should have done this several years ago to prove he was serious, IMO.

1. Stand up a DGP web site.
These days, you can get a significant amount of web space for less than $10 a month. And there's nothing like a web site to give people the sense that you are really an entity that exists and is doing something. And Roger could probably find one of his buddies who could build a decent site for him.

Apparently he did own "digestgroup.com" for awhile.

2. Offer prior DGP products as a PDF for a price.
To get people interested in the site, Roger could offer things like the first couple issues of Traveller's Digest as free PDFs, and then offer the other PDFs for a charge through paypal. That would get income coming in for a fairly low outlay in cash.

I've had email from Roger several years ago (for why see below) and he wanted to do reprints. The issue (for him) was not cost but apparently Marc wanted full rights to the IP of anything reprinted. (I'll have to go scan the hard disk of my old PC to find Roger's actual wording.)

3. With an income base established, finish AI and market it. Once this was done it could be offered over the web as a PDF, again using paypal. More income.

Even if all Roger did was scan the pages (he has copies of all the products) and put them up (no OCR, even) that's something. He's missing a great opportunity to generate income with this approach, and to make good with Traveller fans, and to introduce new gamers to the genre.

When I sold everything to Roger, I really cleaned house, so I don't even own copies of all the products any more.

In fact, if Roger wanted to, I bet he could work with the fans to get this done, kind of like an "open source" project, so he wouldn't even have to do much of the work. He could make one chapter from each product "free" so people could get a flavor for the product, and then ask for a paypal payment to get the whole PDF.

Several years ago Roger tried pretty much just that. He set up a half-a-dozen internet mailing lists where people were invited to contribute to AI (without pay). Two things of note: Firstly, there was no prior material for AI, we were starting from scratch. Secondly, Roger had expended the concept into a generic game (like GURPS) with AI being one of the campaign worlds. He had one mailing list working on 'core' rules, one working on AI, one working on a 2300AD-like future game, etc.

The problem was a serious lack of project management: He'd make a few inspirational speeches, then stand back and see what happened. A number of volunteers would try and run with the ball ... going in different directions ... and 6 months later Roger would reappear, decide he wasn't happy with any work that actually been done (but being very nice about it), and start the whole process off again. I was one of those involved, but after a year I'd had enough.

What happened after and since is anyone's guess: he's since gone to ground.

(While there was no prior AI material, there was some Traveller material that I managed to snag: some internal DGP mailing list archives, etc.)


Regards PLST

 

[jfugatesr]

Sounds like Roger all right. He's a motivator, but not a manager, unfortunately.

He would need to work with the group to distill ideas into a work plan, then make assignments and give deadlines.

Doesn't sound like Roger knew how to get our previous work off the AI disks he received in the DGP transfer. Hence, you start over. That's more fun anyway. But producing a new game, at the end of the day, isn't about just having fun. It's about working hard and having something to show for it.

Good ol' Roger. Always reinventing the wheel, and never getting the wheel beyond the concept stage. Maybe one day he will surprise us all and resurface with something tangible to sell?

Well we can always hope ...

 

[jfugatesr]

Sounds like Roger all right. He's a motivator, but not a manager, unfortunately.

He would need to work with the group to distill ideas into a work plan, then make assignments and give deadlines.

Doesn't sound like Roger knew how to get our previous work off the AI disks he received in the DGP transfer. Hence, you start over. That's more fun anyway. But producing a new game, at the end of the day, isn't about just having fun. It's about working hard and having something to show for it.

Good ol' Roger. Always reinventing the wheel, and never getting the wheel beyond the concept stage. Maybe one day he will surprise us all and resurface with something tangible to sell?

Well we can always hope ...

 

[jfugatesr]

Sounds like Roger all right. He's a motivator, but not a manager, unfortunately.

He would need to work with the group to distill ideas into a work plan, then make assignments and give deadlines.

Doesn't sound like Roger knew how to get our previous work off the AI disks he received in the DGP transfer. Hence, you start over. That's more fun anyway. But producing a new game, at the end of the day, isn't about just having fun. It's about working hard and having something to show for it.

Good ol' Roger. Always reinventing the wheel, and never getting the wheel beyond the concept stage. Maybe one day he will surprise us all and resurface with something tangible to sell?

Well we can always hope ...

 

[Vargas]

Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . .

 

[Vargas]

Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . .

 

[Vargas]

Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

This is in no way a reflection of Joe and company -- we had an agreement that Roger inherited, and has not honoured. But his not paying me means that the contract was never fulfilled, and thus I retain the copyright to my work.

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . .

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by Vargas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

<snip>

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . . </font>[/QUOTE]Which also means that you own those works, and can resell them. Which is what I did with the patrol cruiser...

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by Vargas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

<snip>

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . . </font>[/QUOTE]Which also means that you own those works, and can resell them. Which is what I did with the patrol cruiser...

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by Vargas:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Robert Prior:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JoeFugate:
So Roger got all the intellectual property

I'll note here that I'm one of the people Roger owes money to -- which means that he doesn't actually own any of the stuff I wrote for DGP. (Except the communications stuff I wrote for Starship Operators Manual, and Joe rewrote those heavily to make them much clearer.)

<snip>

(Which may be an interesting legal surprise to him, if he ever decides to publish anything.) </font>[/QUOTE]Gee, I guess he owes me money too then . . . </font>[/QUOTE]Which also means that you own those works, and can resell them. Which is what I did with the patrol cruiser...

 

[aramis]

I don't think Rodger really knows how much of the IP he actually owns, and how much isn't his. It can be really tricky to figure out. And, to be honest, Rodger is an idea man, not a research man.

Joe, did you BUY the IP to the articles in TD, or just Permission to Publish?