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CT Sensors: Detection and identification

So in a USP code block, what would the Pn for such a craft be? :rolleyes:
  • 6 / 0.25 = 24
  • Pn code: Q
The Pn "gets that high" because it's generating EP=6 inside a 25 ton hull.
Needless to say, this is a mathematical edge case that the LBB2.81/TTB starship construction paradigm wasn't exactly "built" to handle, so all kinds of things break down and fall apart.
Yeah... the Pn value I use is intended for the LBB2/TTB design sequence, so it's always between 1 and 6 (thus the DM for power plant signature is between +1 and +3, which is playable).
I did not account for the paradigm of High Guard since i'm not using it! But now I can understand why you said warships would be extremely easy to detect... I would certainly change the calculations if I was planning to use it.
 
Let me see if I can synthesize what's going on, to see whether I'm actually getting it.
You're most of the way there. (y)
Detection concerns the navigators. It involves analyzing sensor data in order to actually notice things around the ship, tracking them, and extracting further information from them (distance, trajectory, size...) with detailed scans. Detection is automatic at a certain range (calculated from computer model number) but might involve a throw past that.
If you want to know information ABOUT a sensor contact, you're looking towards the navigator station. You'll want to have detailed scans to determine things like whether the contact has any external turrets, estimates of the target's fuel state (mostly empty after jump, mostly full before jump), current power generation levels (indicating combat ready or not), is the craft maneuvering evasively (anticipating combat) or simply accelerating in a straight line trajectory ... etc. etc. etc.
Those details are important intel information that ought to feed into command decisions (including, "Red Alert!").

Even things like the material the hull is constructed from ...
  • TL=7-9 Composite Laminates
  • TL=A-B Crystaliron
  • TL=C-D Superdense
  • TL=E-F Bonded Superdense
... will offer "different returns" on sensor scans, because each material will have its own characteristic sensor signature pattern.

So if you're looking at what ought to be a TL=9 Free Trader ... but the sensor signature of the hull is indicating the return pattern of a Superdense hull material ... you're probably looking at not a stock Free Trader but some sort of TL=C-D craft (probably TL=D, which adds +1 code factor to missiles and lasers, among other things, under LBB5.80 construction and combat rules) that is masquerading as a Free Trader and is probably some sort of Q-ship decoy instead, intended to take on pirates and raiders (or has become a pirate/raider itself!).

The 200 ton displacement is right.
The 1G (for now) acceleration is right.
The EP=2 (for now) power generation level is right.
But the hull material looks like some kind of higher tech level ARMOR (above code: 0) ... so that probably isn't a TL=9 Free Trader that you've got on sensors.
Can't see any weapons ... but the ship might be mounting (concealable) pop up turrets, that won't be detectable until combat begins.
If it's a TL=D Q-ship, it could have (up to) a computer model/7 installed onboard, which would make it a formidable opponent to engage. :unsure:

Those kinds of contextual details require PARSING the data coming out of the sensors to characterize the contact beyond the "Yup, there's something there!" of just seeing a blip on the holo display.
Targeting concerns the gunners. It involves controlling the weaponry of the ship in order to bring fire effectively upon a target when desired. Targeting is not possible without prior detection. To determine whether a firing solution is effective, a throw is required (which is the to-hit throw in space combat!).
This is where you get into parsing the nuance questions.

My personal take is that any time a weapon is fired at a target, it is USED.
That means that ordnance is expended, EPs are consumed ... the weapon is used.
Whether that weapon usage HITS or not (attack=success) is what the To Hit roll is about.
Weapons can be used ... but still MISS.

So technically isn't not a matter of whether a firing solution is "effective" ... because that implies that if the To Hit roll is "failed" then the weapon doesn't get fired. Can't get a solution/clean shot, don't shoot, is not the way that this plays here.

Instead, what happens is that the computers will yield a "probability for a hit" (give you a threshold for success on the dice roll) and then the gunner has to decide whether or not to "take a shot" and roll the dice. In other words, hits are not "predetermined" before firing ... except in cases where you need to roll 2+ on 2d6 in order to be successful, because probability to hit is 100% ("You may fire when ready.").

In a roleplaying context (as opposed to a wargaming context), this has important implications.
Any kind of "shot across the bow" type of warning fire (to get the attention of another craft) is going to involve USE of a weapon. However, "painting" a target to indicate that you've got a weapon solution to fire with is different and would not involve using a weapon to shoot (just demonstrate that you're prepared to shoot, if you have to).

In roleplaying contexts, this can turn into a either a "fast draw" type of contest or become a "stare down" type of intimidation so that weapons do not need to be used. Demonstrating that you've got a target "dead to rights" long enough for them to surrender without shots needing to be fired is merely one possible path to victory.
 
Let me see if I can synthesize what's going on, to see whether I'm actually getting it.
  • Detection concerns the navigators. It involves analyzing sensor data in order to actually notice things around the ship, tracking them, and extracting further information from them (distance, trajectory, size...) with detailed scans. Detection is automatic at a certain range (calculated from computer model number) but might involve a throw past that.
    • DMs are applicable for hull size, power plant, M-Drive acceleration, Navigation skill (maybe Electronics minus 1 as well), or programs such as Detect or ECM/ECCM.
  • Targeting concerns the gunners. It involves controlling the weaponry of the ship in order to bring fire effectively upon a target when desired. Targeting is not possible without prior detection. To determine whether a firing solution is effective, a throw is required (which is the to-hit throw in space combat!).
    • DMs are applicable for programs such as Predict, Gunner Interact, Auto/Evade or Maneuver/Evade, Pilot or Gunnery skill (if appropriate programs are used), range, or obscuring sand.

Independent of what skills can do the detection, my view is that you can’t get the enhanced analysis Spinward gives examples for unless you have a target solution.

You need exact range to analyze your passive or active data so the values you are getting are calibrated precisely and not ‘maybes’.

The question then becomes a referee matter of player experience that suits your table, judging gearhead/world immersion and inclusion of all players into doing something important vs any play drag/friction the increased mechanics imposes.
 
One other thought- there is a CT rule -6 DM dealing with switching targets if a target ship is destroyed. That suggests a target solution period of time built in. The Target program must have a running target solution that has to be done for normal firing to occur.
 
This is quite more nuanced than I imagined.

Further refinements as of now:

The ranges based on computer model number (C) are the following:
  • Short range (C×0.1 LS = C×30,000 km): Detection and detailed analysis automatic.
  • Long range (C×0.3 LS = C×90,000 km): Detection automatic.
  • Extreme range (C×0.5 LS = C×150,000 km): Maximum distance to track contacts once detected.
One further iteration of the detection DMs, now in two separate tables for clarity:

SEEKER'S DMs
Navigation expertise+1 per level
Detect-n+n (+0 if ECM)
ECCM-nreduce ECM by n
Extreme range-4

INTRUDER'S DMs
Small craft-1
Over 1000 tons+1
Power plant+Pn/2 (round up)
Maneuvering+1 per G
Going cold-1
ECM-n-n

Rolls for detection would be required to either detect past long rage, or to manage a detailed analysis past short range.
Adding the option of stealthed hull levels to ship design sounds like a neat ideas as well.
 
Independent of what skills can do the detection, my view is that you can’t get the enhanced analysis Spinward gives examples for unless you have a target solution.

You need exact range to analyze your passive or active data so the values you are getting are calibrated precisely and not ‘maybes’.
That makes sense. In your case, you require both rolls to be successful?
Also, if a ship doesn't have weapons, is it still possible to get a target solution? I'm guessing yes, although it would serve no other purpose but to get a better analysis...
 
That makes sense. In your case, you require both rolls to be successful?
Also, if a ship doesn't have weapons, is it still possible to get a target solution? I'm guessing yes, although it would serve no other purpose but to get a better analysis...
Technically you could pass your firing solution to an ally.
 
That makes sense. In your case, you require both rolls to be successful?
Also, if a ship doesn't have weapons, is it still possible to get a target solution? I'm guessing yes, although it would serve no other purpose but to get a better analysis...

Yes, I do.

To get more analysis, you roll and get more data for each success. That’s just me, perfectly valid to determine by level of success on the original lock on roll to determine the quality of what was gathered.

Re unarmed ships, the process is exactly the same even if it’s a science ship analyzing an incoming flare or a belter scanning a rock for prospecting.

And I agree with the handoff of lock on data to friendly ships. Fleets are largely impossible to sneak up on.
 
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