Confused

[aramis]

You know, I somehow doubt a 1000-page PDF that's sold off a website that looks like it was designed in the Bronze Age will compete with a massive book series that's available in actual game stores all over the planet, not to mention amazon.

But, hey.

Marc coud use an update of his Website to post-1999 standards (I got out of doing websites in 2002... not counting my own). But, that's not the plan for T5... the T5 plan, last mentioned, was that Mongoose will be divvying it up in to about 6-7 books. Mind you, that was mentioned by Matt...

But that's enough about Marc's website... Capice?

 

[saundby]

You know, I somehow doubt a 1000-page PDF that's sold off a website that looks like it was designed in the Bronze Age will compete with a massive book series that's available in actual game stores all over the planet, not to mention amazon.

But, hey.

I'll take solid content over something less with art that looks like it was drawn by the punker kid in 10th grade English class. But then again, I know my own tastes appear to run counter to those of any viable commercial market segment...

Gimme solid blocks of text and tables in tech doc format with title page art by Winchell Chung and I'll have all the eye candy _I_ need. (I'd say cover art, but that will be black, right?)

 

[Tysis]

Well large PDFs with a lot of graphics are a bit slow. It is best to keep them as plain as possable.

I never purchased T4 (I have most of the books from CT, MT, and TNE) but I did purchase a couple of the supplements.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

(I'd say cover art, but that will be black, right?)

 

[Jamus]

I'll take solid content over something less with art that looks like it was drawn by the punker kid in 10th grade English class. But then again, I know my own tastes appear to run counter to those of any viable commercial market segment...

Gimme solid blocks of text and tables in tech doc format with title page art by Winchell Chung and I'll have all the eye candy _I_ need. (I'd say cover art, but that will be black, right?)

I look for playability and ease of use. If a game requires more than 10-20 pages of rules then there is a problem. I can not understand why MwM feels the need to reinvent the wheel. Fact is the man (MWM) hit the jack pot with CT and should have been spending the last three decades improving and expanding on that brand instead of the constant fracturing of the community. That and the fact that almost every version released since CT has been a huge step backwards. The similarity between CT and MGT is the only reason I play MgT now otherwise I would still be rocking out with CT.

A better business model would have been CT+ which is what MgT did fortunantly.

 

[atpollard]

That works for me.
That's what The Traveller Book should have looked like.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

That works for me.
That's what The Traveller Book should have looked like.

I wasn't as good an artist back then...

 

[Trouble]

T5 Cover

Perfect. Thank You Sir.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

I'll take solid content over something less with art that looks like it was drawn by the punker kid in 10th grade English class. But then again, I know my own tastes appear to run counter to those of any viable commercial market segment...

Same here, that's why I pre-ordered the book. I like Marc and his games and find his website rather cute.

My point, clearly not phrased well enough, was that since a competition between MGT and T5 is an illusion, criticism of Marc on that count is without merit.

My underlying point, stated now explicitly for general gettability, is that I don't like how Jamus walks into a T5 discussion and tries to swerve it towards an MGT/T5 slugfest.

First, by inventing the "competition" issue; and then, when that doesn't fly, by moving on to nag about something else.

Add to this the fact that he resurrected that contentious MGT thread from oblivion a little while ago, and you have a consistently negative presence.

 

[Jamus]

I wouldn't call pointing out the fact the MgT and T5 are not shaping up to be a compatible trying to start a version war, especially when you consider only one of the two are even in print. I have been following T5 since it was announced as a possibility and if you care to look you would see posts from me from three or four years ago where we have had this same debate about the T4 multiple dice mechanics and how a good portion of the community does not like it or at least does not like it as much as a more tradition CT style system.

I have always felt that T5 should have been CT+ and make no secret of that. My hope is that MWM will see the error of using an unpopular mechanic coupled with an unpopular roll under system and go back to what made his game great. simplicity and playability.

That said how is it negative to point out that the last thing we as a community need is yet another version of traveller? It brings up the question of is traveller the rules set or the setting? Personally I say traveller is the rules set and that makes CT,MT,MgT traveller to me and anything else some other game using a similar setting.

In the end I guess what will be important is that we all have fun playing around with whichever version or incarnation of traveller we prefer.

 

[robject]

The similarity between CT and MGT is the only reason I play MgT now otherwise I would still be rocking out with CT.

A better business model would have been CT+ which is what MgT did fortunantly.

Turns out it was a good business model indeed, which is why MgT and Marc did the deal. Mongoose has the resources to recast and re-use the best bits of CT and update it for this decade.

And Marc doesn't seem to want to do more of the same thing.

So, this is a win-win.

 

[robject]

That said how is it negative to point out that the last thing we as a community need is yet another version of traveller? It brings up the question of is traveller the rules set or the setting? Personally I say traveller is the rules set and that makes CT,MT,MgT traveller to me and anything else some other game using a similar setting.

In the end I guess what will be important is that we all have fun playing around with whichever version or incarnation of traveller we prefer.

Totally agree with your last point, and that's an excellent way to end a post.

I'm trying to find bits of T5 rules which haven't evolved, and am having trouble finding things that are straight from CT. Maybe the UWP generation rules, as in "2D-7+Size".

From chargen I'm seeing ideas from CT/MT, but no borrowing, and the system is cleanly integrated with sophonts, genetic engineering, and synthetics.

And in starships I'm seeing ideas from CT, MT, and TNE, but none are borrows from any of those sets.

World and system building is a happy medium -- simpler than Scouts and WBH, but with elements of both. And the world-building elements work directly with vehicles and starships -- the depths of a gas giant's atmosphere can now crush your precious Yacht, just as the depths of an ocean can crush your submarine. The referee will already know your ship's tolerances and a world's "abilities". And you can watch your characteristics degrade as you freeze and suffocate when some evil villain strands you on the summit of Mount Burshannikulan.

 

[Jamus]

Will there be new fluff and setting material? Though I never liked the T4 rules I did end up buying alot of the T4 books just for the fluff, some of which I still use in my MgT game, little stuff like the fact that in T4 battledress comes equipped with a grav belt as standard. That makes sense to me and is something that I think expands and improves on CT regardless of the rules mechanics. I absolutely love the emperors arsenal book. I like the sidebars on imperial tech and how it effects the common man. If T5 has some of that I may buy the book just for the background material and just continue using CT/MgT rules.

 

[David Johansen]

hmmm...as T4's only fan I was really mad when, after years of promising to make it right they just dropped it like a rock. I was never going to forgive Marc for getting my hopes up and dashing them to bits like that.

Anyhow, I like T5. There's enough material in the playtest stuff to actually run the game. It's, well, it's a masterpiece but keep in mind that Traveller has always been about how Marc organizes information.

It looks nothing like anything I've ever seen in the gaming industry. If just looking at Rolemaster scares you then T5 will kill you dead on the spot. And yet, I rolled up a character in fifteen minutes with almost no read through.

As far as the dice mechanic goes, I'll break ranks a bit and pray Don doesn't ban me for it. There's several pages of statistical analysis in one file and it sold me. nd6 roll under is simply the better system hands down. I'd been hoping for a 2d6 game myself before I read the analysis.

several pages of statistical analysis isn't something I'd ever want to see in a rule book, but in a huge disc loaded with .pdfs where it doesn't actually take away space from anything, I think it's very worthwhile.

 

[robject]

Will there be new fluff and setting material? [...] little stuff like the fact that in T4 battledress comes equipped with a grav belt as standard. That makes sense to me and is something that I think expands and improves on CT regardless of the rules mechanics. [...]

Sort of, but it's playable fluff. The core book has nice-to-have options as part of the design rules for weapons and armor, for instance, and those options have playability implications, like the integral grav belt you mentioned above. I can see this kind of detail as being crucial to an arsenal supplement for T5.

For example, I may have a basic, stripped-down, "last year's model" PGMP, but yours might be camouflaged (= low visual signature) with a universal 'grip' (and therefore is a little bulkier). And while I have standard-issue battledress with reflec, yours might have a battlefield commo, fine-ops controls, and several weeks' worth of life support.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

Shit, that sounds awesome.

Nearly unplayable I guess, but definitely awesome.

How long is the charsheet with all options on, 25 pages?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Hoping for Mercy from Don, but Rob did it first....

It takes a entire 12 Terms PC with full notes, skills, bumps, etc, about 7 pages in a standard notebook. roughly on average about say 4 to 5.

*ducks*

 

[DonM]

o:

What do you mean, I can't slap people? This board desperately needs more smilies.

Actually, I was telling Marc that he could get USB drives setup cheap that people could carry their characters on, and the referee could just plug them into his laptop and be all setup for a game.

Fortunately, the software for handling all the combat mods is based on the same distributed processing code that SETI@home used, so turn processing won't be that slow given reliable internet access.

There, I can massively exaggerate too... Actually, I'd almost rather have T5 on a write-once USB than a CD-ROM...

Hmm... great... I was making a joke, and stumbled on an idea. Slap an Imperial Sunburst on the outside of the USB drive...

 

[saundby]

So is this the time to start the "Bring Back Traveller on Little Black SD Cards" group?

:smirk:

 

[coliver988]

So is this the time to start the "Bring Back Traveller on Little Black SD Cards" group?

:smirk:

MicroSD please - that way I can use my phone to carry my character around (hey, it does run WinMobile 6.1, and I could port some of my numerous yet never completed Traveller programs to it as well for a complete hand-held solution!) And yes - it woul dneed to have the starburst on it as well