Common History and Culture

[Carlobrand]

...

The Imperium does interfere: no slavery, no nukes, no psionics (well, not so much of that now compared to the past). What else does the Imperium proscribe?

The Imperium can't enforce day-to-day civil rights without governing directly, and any attempt to do so would scare the bejeezus out of most of the member worlds. It can enforce simple bans by removing any government that breaks them. And as long as the other member worlds can say, "Oh, well, that won't happen to us because we won't employ chattel slavery" or "Oh, well, psionics; those guys deserved all they got" or something like that, the Imperium can do it. ...

Well, that is a measure of interference. You're right, though, the 3I can't very well open up a civil rights office on every world and investigate every disgruntled crank who wants to claim the Boss o' Bosses is enslaving the populus. A lot of these worlds are pretty oppressive - must be a lot of people who'd love to stow away on some ship and then make complaints from a safe distance.

Kinda makes me wonder what, if any, method they do have for detecting member naughtiness.

 

[whulorigan]

Kinda makes me wonder what, if any, method they do have for detecting member naughtiness.

Probably the Imperial Consulate, Imperial Legate, and/or Imperial Local Noble assigned to the world would be the watchdog for such things.

Depending on the local situation, that could make for some interesting politics (and adventure material . . . ).

 

[Ulsyus]

Kinda makes me wonder what, if any, method they do have for detecting member naughtiness.

The Imperial Ministry of Justice? Local nobles?

Given that oppression limits markets and generates poverty if it's not simply failing to build wealth, it may be just a matter of the Imperium meddling a little with opposition groups if possible, so that it can have an influence with the smallest possible level of involvement. Maybe a little like superpower influence in client states during the Cold War (but not as bad as that, accepting bloody-handed martinets as long as they opposed the other side).

Oh, another reason the 3I would get involved would be if someone were committing Crimes Against Humaniti!

 

[Lord Blaine]

The way I figure it, the Imperium will only directly intervene if a planet is trying to totally cut itself off from the wider galaxy. It might indirectly involve itself in other circumstances, but it will only directly get involved in a HELLO WE ARE THE IMPERIUM sort of way if a world turns itself into Romulus.

 

[Ulsyus]

I was reflecting the other night on a matter at work where the state I live in takes a slightly different attitude to domestic violence from some other states. Here it's taken very seriously, while in another to our north there's still a little nudge-nudge that takes place. I know of a woman who had her husband, when they were divorcing and in separate rooms, break down her bedroom door, but when she reported it to police they said that if she hadn't been injured there wasn't anything they could do!

That got me thinking about ISIS and the difference between not just western nations but other states in the middle east. Saudi Arabia may not permit evangelising Christians to do their biz there, but they don't threaten them and treat them the same way ISIS does.

So maybe how we think of Imperial culture could start to involve discussions and descriptions of categories such as sexual equality, use of force (for dueling), inheritance laws, abdication from positions (Father steps down at 60 from the active head of the family and passes it to the heir), religious orientation and acceptance, the value and place of sport, acceptable and expected work ethics and work-life balance, social mobility, conflict of interest management (megacorp share ownership by families that govern subsectors and such), social responsibility and expected levels of charitable patronage, the value and extent of families, the separation of Imperial services (Scouts, Navy, Army, Justice, etc) from mainstream society and how that impacts on offspring and their view of their place on the worlds of the Imperium. And corruption!! Is that enough for a start?

 

[aramis]

The Imperial Ministry of Justice? Local nobles?

And every Honor and Reward noble hoping for a proper heritable patent...

 

[rancke]

And every Honor and Reward noble hoping for a proper heritable patent...

Honor nobles are reward nobles unless they're heirs to reward and rank nobles. And their patents are heritable.

At least, I don't recall seeing lifetime peerages mentioned anywhere, although I could be wrong. And I admit that even if they're not mentioned they might still exist.

Other than that, you're probably quite right. Even if their patents are heritable, they could be hoping for an upgrade.


Hans

 

[rancke]

So maybe how we think of Imperial culture could start to involve discussions and descriptions of categories such as sexual equality, use of force (for dueling), inheritance laws, abdication from positions (Father steps down at 60 from the active head of the family and passes it to the heir), religious orientation and acceptance, the value and place of sport, acceptable and expected work ethics and work-life balance, social mobility, conflict of interest management (megacorp share ownership by families that govern subsectors and such), social responsibility and expected levels of charitable patronage, the value and extent of families, the separation of Imperial services (Scouts, Navy, Army, Justice, etc) from mainstream society and how that impacts on offspring and their view of their place on the worlds of the Imperium. And corruption!! Is that enough for a start?

It's more than a little overwhelming. How about picking one and posting something about that?

I've already posted about my notion that (by a staggering coincidence) Imperial culture is pretty close to 21st Century Western culture. With a few differences like duelling. Also with lots of potential differences; however, differences must be described before they "exist" for any practical purpose.


Hans

 

[Timerover51]

That got me thinking about ISIS and the difference between not just western nations but other states in the middle east. Saudi Arabia may not permit evangelising Christians to do their biz there, but they don't threaten them and treat them the same way ISIS does.

How about if we keep current politics out of the discussion?

 

[selunatic2397]

Ditto!

 

[Ulsyus]

How about if we keep current politics out of the discussion?

FTR, I was referencing some facts to situate where my post was leading, rather than attempting to engage in a discussion about current politics.

However, while I understand what you're saying, and while I agree that this is not a forum for discussion of contentious political issues, the richness of human culture across the globe offers many elements to use in analogous form when describing elements of the OTU. Some of these things are in the news even today (eg: recent events in Sweden relating in a form to the motivations of some of the colonists who established the Sword Worlds).

If I say something that offends you, don't hesitate to let me know. If my internal filter fails and I write something that is unacceptable to the forum, I'll accept the ruling of the referees.

PS: Wait, aren't we all referees? :rofl:

 

[Ulsyus]

It's more than a little overwhelming. How about picking one and posting something about that?
Hans

Okay, an easy one (?!) to start with: law level and use of force.

Is #I culture one where people have a right to carry (as in some US states), higher where those licenced can own firearms, or one where private firearm ownership is verbotten?

Is it legal to carry knives, daggers, swords, etc out in the open in general society, or are those things kept out of sight or put away until a formal duel has been agreed upon?

In my game we set it at Law Level 9. Anyone with a licence can own weapons and take them between there and training facilities or practice/use areas (hunting preserves, dojos, ranges, etc). Authorised govt pers carry theirs where permitted by law (at work, when deployed, on duty) but not otherwise. These limitations apply in an area under the jurisdiction of the 3I, but otherwise the local law level applies.

Dueling is permitted, but under strict rules and etiquette. Blades are not carried about the place by the nobility, but are permitted at some ceremonial occasions.

This contributes to the regulation of a well-ordered 3I society which has less to fear from weapons violence than many of the worlds that exist within it.

What bethinks you?

 

[rancke]

The evidence is scanty and contradictory. IIRC the law level of Imperial starports is quite low, although I can't remember the references. Archdukes has the right (duty?) to carry a loaded automatic in the presence of the Emperor. On the other hand, the law level of Capital is 8.

For starports I go with no established law, but each Starport Director formulates his own regulations. That way, I can have 'anything goes (except nukes)' in one starport and 'penknives forbidden' in another.


Hans

 

[aramis]

The evidence is scanty and contradictory. IIRC the law level of Imperial starports is quite low, although I can't remember the references. Archdukes has the right (duty?) to carry a loaded automatic in the presence of the Emperor. On the other hand, the law level of Capital is 8.

For starports I go with no established law, but each Starport Director formulates his own regulations. That way, I can have 'anything goes (except nukes)' in one starport and 'penknives forbidden' in another.


Hans

I recall a citation somewhere for LL3: no chem, nukes, bio, nor man portable energy weapons. But I can't recall where.

 

[rancke]

I recall a citation somewhere for LL3: no chem, nukes, bio, nor man portable energy weapons. But I can't recall where.

It sounds very reasonable. I think GT gives starports a control rating of 0, which amounts to pretty much the same thing because some weapons have negative legality ratings.


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

The scene: a port (high or low), ships berthed in docks or on pads, large conduits carrying piping and cabling of various sorts connecting the vessels to the port for fuel, waste, gases, etc.

The incident: One trader's slightly dodgy crew attempting to monkeywrench a rival's vessel just enough to force them to abandon a time-critical cargo, to the benefit of the slightly dodgy crew. Given the low law level of the port, everyone's tooled up in case it suddenly gets more serious than they want. They're seen however, and the serious bit is effected. Some bullets, flechettes and beams fly about the place briefly, but some impact the conduit and piping within. The emergency cutoff mechanism registers the drop in pressure, but volatile material leaks into the dock area. Laser fire does the rest, and a significant amount of damage is done to the immediate area, the ship about to be sabotaged, and other items nearby. Collateral damage is done, and at a later date a class action is successfully bought against the SPA for failure to provide an environment with an appropriately reduced level of risk.

Does the SPA jack up port fees? Does it require vessels to sign waivers for use of facilities, or does it implement stricter controls?

That said, I recognise that our interpretations of this will be dependent on you we run YTU, which will be affected among other things by the societies we live in and how we want players in our games to be able to live their adventures. Mos Eisley, or Heathrow? Djibouti International or the ISS?

 

[Ulsyus]

I think I would make the argument that the Third Imperium did not erupt out of a vacuum at the end of the Long Night, but rather evolved out of the Sylean Federation, which was a centralist state (and absorbed the Vilani Worlds, which were culturally conservative).

I was having another look at this recently and decided to go back to basics WRT 3I and Sylean culture: the Millieu 0 book for T4. It was interesting to note that it mentioned Vilani culture but didn't have a direct reference to Sylean culture.

 

[Carlobrand]

The scene: a port (high or low), ships berthed in docks or on pads, large conduits carrying piping and cabling of various sorts connecting the vessels to the port for fuel, waste, gases, etc.
... Collateral damage is done, and at a later date a class action is successfully bought against the SPA for failure to provide an environment with an appropriately reduced level of risk. ...?

Wait, what? A class action against the Starport Authority? The Starport Authority has sovereign immunity, doesn't it? Who authorized a suit to move forward against the Starport Authority for the unlawful acts of third parties? I'd worry more about some marquis demanding the director's resignation.

 

[Ulsyus]

Wait, what? A class action against the Starport Authority? The Starport Authority has sovereign immunity, doesn't it? Who authorized a suit to move forward against the Starport Authority for the unlawful acts of third parties? I'd worry more about some marquis demanding the director's resignation.

So if the SPA has sovereign immunity, does that mean that anything can go wrong there, that any party can be injured or suffer loss, and no-one is responsible? Wouldn't the 3I, a laws-based entity, have to accept some sort of responsibility, or are starports only visited and used at the ship-owner's risk?

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

So if the SPA has sovereign immunity, does that mean that anything can go wrong there, that any party can be injured or suffer loss, and no-one is responsible? Wouldn't the 3I, a laws-based entity, have to accept some sort of responsibility, or are starports only visited and used at the ship-owner's risk?

"Uh, yes, citizen. We are making progress in this investigation, although there are many witnesses to interview who have gone off-world. Our interim SPA director is handling the matter personally while the former SPA director has been placed on indefinite leave. In the meantime, please accept these gift cards, good at any SPA media dispensary, and enjoy our facilities at your leisure. Thank you for your interest. We appreciate your concern. Now, if you'll excuse me ..."