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CC2/CC3 Traveller Symbols

Originally posted by Aramis:
BTL, if you like the excrement in Cosmo, fine. I don't. Their valves and hatches do not look good. The chairs and couches are about the only things I found useable; those did have to be scaled down, since at 100% they appeared some 4m wide....

Cosmographer was a waste of money...
Click to expand...
Funny my set, scaling only things like engine parts and cargo doors (which scaled nicer than I thought they would), produced these two. Now I did remove the grid lines, since I am using Klooge to play and grids are redundant when you have real time ranges, but before I did remove the lines they did line up nicely at 1.5m intervals.
None of my furniturte was anywhere near 4m across so I have no clue as to what you did. I simply used the default settings provided with cosmographer.
Missive.jpg


Blunt_Instrument.jpg


The Fast Courier was adopted from Avenger Enterprises Golden Age Starships Fast Courier and the Javelin class Merc Cruiser was from EA6. The Javelin used some of the rooms, provided with Cosmographer, the Courier just symbols. I do totally disagree that it was a waste of money. They were easy to construct, provided you got past the initial learning curve of CC2. (And following their initial tutorial took care of most of that for me.) Now if I could learn Hex 2.1 as easily.
 
Originally posted by TheEngineer:
Perhaps a taste thing with CG.
IMHO there are many useful symbols, templates and drawing aids.

Anyway, the things you might really need for Traveller deckplans are just a few.
I`m still fighting a bit with those varicolor and smart symbols. They don't excactly do, what I want them to do


TE
Click to expand...
As for getting the smart symbols to hit right, you have to have your grid snaps set correctly. (Took a while for me to figure that one out.) Unfortunately that isn't neccessarily the same settings that you put in your walls with. (Usually if you double the number of snaps per grid they will fit in nicely. YMMV though.)
 
I was able to finally sit down over the last couple days and finish up a deckplan that I had been working on for a long time in CC2 and Cosmographer. (It was mainly an issue of me not taking the time to learn the tools and RL getting in the way).

Suffice to say that I am much happier with my CC2 and Cosmographer purchase! I'll post the plan tonight.
 
Okay, here is what I have been working on over the last few days bit by bit.

My big mistake was to use the template "sheets" that they provide that allow you to flip from deck to deck. Personally, I like having all the decks visible. Anyway, the end result is that the JPGs are not as clean as I would like. And I'm still learning this thing. Some of the scaling for some of the fixtures is off, but that can be fixed later.

So, I am big into speed. So what is the first thing I do? I make a 6G J6 craft.


So here it is -

phoenix-t1.jpg


The hull design was based on the Legion Cruiser -
ship.jpg
lshcr11a.jpg


There is a "basement" level that has the air/raft dock, a sickbay, lab and cargo hold. For armaments, it has two missle launchers (located on the underside of the "wings") two lasers on the "wingtips", one in the front. The front bridge area also has a sandcaster. A PAW barbette is located on the dorsal of the engineering section.

Anyway, it was fun to play with it. Now I have a better idea of the time involved with this kind of thing. I am now starting to peck away at a floorplan for the front section of a RC Clipper.
 
Things like to 30cm wide iris valves, when in Traveller illos, they are at most 10cm wide... those are the kinds of sticky wicket stuff that makes Cosmo a waste of money for me.

I find it far better for the look I like (Which is, fundamentally, Supp 7 & bunks/consoles) to simply work with the base CC2.
 
Thanks, TE.

Time for this is a good question, as I started to do this originally about a year ago, then stopped for a long time.

I picked it up again about a week ago and plowed through it over the course of a weekend, making mistakes and learning techniques in CC2 along the way. Probably total time spent is about 10 hours. I will probably do another version without the back template that I expect to go much faster.

I'll post the TNE stats tonight when I get home (I'm in class this week and don't have my laptop with me). The general backstory of the ship is that its a pre-collapse design co-funded by the IISS and Navy to act as a courier/recon/spy ship, specifically to jump deep into a territory, gather reams of data as it does a fast flyby, and get out.

Interestingly, the version from the comic is probably about the same size as a Type S, but I couldn't get that size with the performance I wanted, so it had to grow.
 
Once you get used to using the interface, (I can't stress this enough, follow through the tutorials.) you can knock out deckplans fairly quickly. The Javelin took me less than 3 hours. The Courier around 2. I just did a Type-S in about an hour. I find, for my use, that it is actually faster for me to do a ship in Cosmographer and get it ready for my Campaign, running in kLoOge.werks, than it is to scan it and convert it or convert a PDF.

My latest project though seems to be to get quicker using my 3D software so I can show not just the deckplans from a top render but also interior scenes. For now Cosmographer suffices and rooms can be individually done as required for the 3D views.

Cosmographer also, as a bonus, turns out nice Planetary Maps, especially when Paired with Fractal Terrains. It also does Traveller Standard Subsector and Sector Maps (With all the symbols.) It can also import the data from a Galatic Sector File and give you the Subsector and sector maps.
 
Originally posted by Aramis:
Things like to 30cm wide iris valves, when in Traveller illos, they are at most 10cm wide... those are the kinds of sticky wicket stuff that makes Cosmo a waste of money for me.

I find it far better for the look I like (Which is, fundamentally, Supp 7 & bunks/consoles) to simply work with the base CC2.
Click to expand...
10cm wide doors? Or do you mean 10cm deep doors? I don't know about you but I would have a very difficult time fitting through a 30cm wide door. Further the depth of the door would have a direct bearing on the thickness of the nearby walls. But where do you come up with the "typical 10cm wide" number?

In my apartment the walls are kind of thin. And they are 12.7cm. Now while that might be OK for privacy partitions of a typical stateroom, one would hope a bulkhead is a bit thicker. A typical exterior wall, (in an area that doesn't require excessive insulation) runs between 25cm and 30cm, a typical loadbearing wall runs about 25cm. So a bulkhead, where a typical IRIS valve sits wouldn't be at least 30cm deep? (Aside from extreme insulation required it also has to stop most weapons fire.) Especially when you consider that the doors retract into the surronding walls.

Now I can't find my good ruler off hand but to eyeball it, in Supplement 7, the bulkhead lines do appear to be about 3 times the width of the non-bulkhead lines. (On those that actually have a difference between the lines, the Seeker for one does not appear to even show a difference.) In fact in my copy of Supp 7 the lines and the grids don't line up making eyeballing that much more difficult. I can't see any wall being 3cm, especially one where the door retracts into it.

So I am definitely confused by your measurements.
 
Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
My latest project though seems to be to get quicker using my 3D software so I can show not just the deckplans from a top render but also interior scenes. For now Cosmographer suffices and rooms can be individually done as required for the 3D views
Click to expand...
Interior scenes... :cool:
Could you show us some!
 
Depth of the iris valves, etc. Suffice it to say, I strongly dislike the Cosmo symbols, and wish I had not purchased it.

CC2/3, yes, I'm happy with them.
 
FYI... here are the ship stats from what was posted above . Tables have been omitted for readability.

The ship was designed using TNE FF&S rules, facilitated by Yves Simon's spreadsheet.

Shanghalla-Class Scout

General Data
Displacement: 500 tons Hull Armor: 100
Length: 60 meters Volume: 7 000 m3
Price: 1.15 GCr Target Size: S
Configuration:Streamlined Wedge Tech Level: 16
Mass (Loaded/Unloaded): 6,358/ 6,335

Engineering Data
Power Plant: 1 010 MW Fusion Power Plant, 01 year(s) duration ( 101m3 fuel)
Jump Performance: 6 (2 450 m3 fuel, 408 m3 fuel per Pc)
G-Rating: 6G Thruster Plates ( 125 MW/G) , High-Efficiency CG ( 50 MW)
Maint: 158

Electronics
Computer: 3xTL-16 Fibre-optic (01 MW)
Commo: 1xTL-16 1000 AU Laser Commo (000 MW ,0 Backups), 1xTL-16 1000 AU Maser Commo (001 MW ,0 Backups)
, 1xTL-16 10 hex Meson Commo (003 MW ,0 Backups)
, 1xTL-16 10 hex Radio Commo (010 MW ,0 Backups)
Avionics: Imaging EMS, inertial/gravitational positioning, IGS positioning
Sensors: , 1xTL-16 16 hex AEMS ( 13 MW , 0 Backups)
, 1xTL-16 7 hex PEMS ( 000 MW , 0 Backups), 0xTL-16 5 hex PEMS ( 000 MW , 1 Backups)
, 1x200 m Folding PEMS Antenna, 1x40 m Folding PEMS Antenna
, 1xTL-16 10 hex Ladar ( 000 MW; 0 Backups), LIDAR (Tracks 80 targets; 10 hex; 0.24 MW)
, 1x TL-16 Densitometers ( 000 MW; 0 Backups), 1x TL-16 Neutrino Sensors (0,01 MW0 Backups)
ECM/ECCM: 1xTL-16 1000 AU Radio Jammer ( 20 MW), 1xTL-16 16 hex EMS Jammer ( 13 MW), 1xTL-16 Area Jammer (Area: 45 000 km; 00 MW)
, TL-16 EMM ( 07 MW)
1 Ladar decoys (prismatic aerosol), 1 Radar/AEMS decoys (chaff), 1 HRT/PEMS decoys (flares)
Controls: Bridge with 5 bridge workstations, 5 normal workstations, fire control center (2 workstations)

Armament
Offensive: 3xTL-15 200-Mj High ROF Laser Turret ( ROF:50; Dif Mod: -1; Crew: 1; 27,8 MW),
1xTL-15 Low ROF Toroïdal 200Mj Remote PAW Barbette (ROF 50 ;Dif Mod: -1 ;Crew None ;55,56MW ea),
2xTL-8 Missile Turret ( Crew: 1; Ammo: 2; 0,15 MW),

Defensive: 1xTL-15 Sandcaster Turret (Cannisters: 50; Beam reduction: 2D10x5; Crew: 1; 1.0 MW),

Master Fire Directors: 1x TL- 16 Master Fire Directors ( -6 Diff Mods; 10 hex; Crew: 1; 001 MW); 1x TL- 16 Master Fire Directors ( -6 Diff Mods; 10 hex; Msl 10 hex; Crew: 1; 001 MW)

Accommodations
Life Support: Extended Life Support ( 001 MW)
Gravitic Compensation: 7 G. ( 04 MW)
Crew: 16 (2xManeuver, 2xElectronics, 5xEngineer, 2xGunnery, 1xMaintenance, 2xShip's Troops, 2xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 2xSmall Staterooms (0,0005 MW), 7xLarge Staterooms (0,001 MW)
Ship's Lockers for 16 crewmembers
Armory for 12 troops (0.024 MW), 1xGyms (0,001 MW), Ordinary Galley for 15 person (0.01 MW)
Other Facilities: Sick Bay (0,8 MW), Lab (0,8 MW), Mechanical Shop (1,0 MW), Electronic Shop (0,6 MW)
Cargo: 420 tons of cargo (30 dTons), 2xlarge hatch, 20 missiles in magazine
Food Storage:
Emergency Rations for 2 weeks for 50 persons

Normal Rations for 2 weeks for 50 persons

Small Craft and Launch Facilities: minimal hangar for 2x3 dT subcrafts
Air Locks: 5

Notes
Total Fuel Tankage: 2,551 m3 (182.2 dTons).
Fuel Scoop (Capacity: 7 000 m3 per hour, fills tanks in 00 hours )
Fuel Processing Plant (1 970m3 per 6 hours; 08 hours for entire load; 10 MW)
Crew requirements are calculated by using 'Original FFS' crew model.
2.7 MW power surplus
 
Wow, how the heck did I miss that post??

Thanks for posting that, TE! Nicely done! Between you and Randy, I think you guys have filled in the gaps for CC2 for me!
 
Guess the goal should be to have the tools to produce a usable deckplan in just a couple of hours for a something big and perhaps less than one hour for easy, small stuff.
So we might still have to find out, what still takes up too much time. I am pretty sure there is always a way to reduce afford.

Anyway I will have to post an update to the symbols soon, as I had to correct some scale issues and finally got some varicolor stuff to work.
 
Well, let's see, then... Things that would really speed up for me are:

3x3m SR's
3x3m freshers
1.5x1.5m freshers
1Td, 2Td, 3Td, and 5Td turret cans.
1 and 2 square consoles (1.5m squares)

BTW, on getting the scaling issue, I replicated it in CC3.
1) in file->Document Properties, set scale unit to meters.
2) use standard Cosmo symbols at 100%. They show up as if feet were meters.
I'm running CC3 on a 450MHz PIII Gateway Laptop. (sole reason for the laptop...)
 
If anyone is interested. I've created some new system/planets for use with CC3 and Cosmographer.

Just unzip the file into the symbols\users\ directory to use.

download

Ch
 
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