Why are knowledges capped?

[Jonas]

p 174: "The maximum attainable level of a knowledge is 6."

I'm curious what purpose this is supposed to serve.

It can't be an incentive for players to pick Skills instead, because that's not really under their control.

All it seems to do is penalize characters in knowledge-heavy careers, because a lot of their points will be wasted. For instance, anyone who's gone through Higher Education will likely have their Major, and probably Minor as well, maxed out, so if they roll those again it's useless.

 

[Shonner]

p 174: "The maximum attainable level of a knowledge is 6."

I'm curious what purpose this is supposed to serve.

What would you like Level 7 to be equivalent to?

 

[Vladika]

What would you like Level 7 to be equivalent to?

Maybe Genius or Supera Genius?

...For instance, anyone who's gone through Higher Education will likely have their Major, and probably Minor as well, maxed out, so if they roll those again it's useless.

If rolled, ignore and role again?

 

[Shonner]

Maybe Genius or Supera Genius?

Maybe Nexus 7.

 

[atpollard]

At skill-7 you pass through the singularity and become post-human, gaining skill-7 in all known human knowledge ... unsuitable for adventuring with pre-singularity life forms.
Welcome to the Q Continuum.

 

[Vladika]

At skill-7 you pass through the singularity and become post-human, gaining skill-7 in all known human knowledge ... unsuitable for adventuring with pre-singularity life forms.
Welcome to the Q Continuum.

Love it. Let go mess with Captain Jerk... :devil:

 

[Murdoc]

p 174: "The maximum attainable level of a knowledge is 6."

I'm curious what purpose this is supposed to serve.

It can't be an incentive for players to pick Skills instead, because that's not really under their control.

All it seems to do is penalize characters in knowledge-heavy careers, because a lot of their points will be wasted. For instance, anyone who's gone through Higher Education will likely have their Major, and probably Minor as well, maxed out, so if they roll those again it's useless.

Really there is no advantage to having knowledges at all. As far as I can tell they only exist as a sort of compromise between having lots of skills (giving more detail) and not too many skills (making characters more capable), and then forcing that into the strange idea that people begin with specialities and later generalize. I assume that the problem you having is with the Sciences, an exception to all this because it has no base skill, and therefore is limited to 6. If so I too have had a problem with this, and it was one of the first house rules I made for T5 because otherwise getting a PhD in a science made no sense; your skill maxed out during your Masters degree, so you can't get more, and plus the game was saying that there was more to learn in skills like Vacc Suit than in say, physics. So now I have the Sciences as just their own skills, with no knowledges associated with them. In fact I'm contemplating ditching Knowledges altogether and splitting them all up into their own skills, but that's a much bigger step so I'm holding off on it.

Other games have done skill specialities a lot better, but that is because they are point-based systems where the specialities cost less than the base skill, even if you are only allowed to have one level of them. In T5 they cost the same which is why they are forced on you by having to get them first. After your third point in a skill, there is no reason to get them, because you get them all with the base skill. But it still creeps me out that as my TL2 guy gets better with his sword, suddenly and magically he can use guns, exotics, beams, battle dress... All in all, a pretty clunky design.

 

[Doyle Hunt]

If so I too have had a problem with this, and it was one of the first house rules I made for T5 because otherwise getting a PhD in a science made no sense; your skill maxed out during your Masters degree, so you can't get more, and plus the game was saying that there was more to learn in skills like Vacc Suit than in say, physics. So now I have the Sciences as just their own skills, with no knowledges associated with them. In fact I'm contemplating ditching Knowledges altogether and splitting them all up into their own skills, but that's a much bigger step so I'm holding off on it.

I can see the sense in it. I don't have a Ph.D. but I have two uncles and a cousin with Ph.D.'s and we have endlessly debated what good they are.

If knowledges max out by the time you get your Master's, then in order to get your Ph.D you have to *add* to the body of knowledge in that field, not just learn what others have done. That's what a thesis is all about.

But that said, it's still a clunky and non-intuitive game mechanic.

 

[Murdoc]

I can see the sense in it. I don't have a Ph.D. but I have two uncles and a cousin with Ph.D.'s and we have endlessly debated what good they are.

If knowledges max out by the time you get your Master's, then in order to get your Ph.D you have to *add* to the body of knowledge in that field, not just learn what others have done. That's what a thesis is all about.

That's not really the point though is it? Are you saying that a person doing their thesis learns nothing at all during that time? That all physicists (or whatever) already know everything there is to know about physics by the time they get their masters? If so, then what new stuff are they "adding" with their thesis? And meanwhile, I can spend 8 years learning how to use a vacc suit better, and more? 10? 12? 15? 20? No limit there. If anything, there should be a limit on physical skills like this because there are upper limits to what the human body can do, but there are no limits to knowledge that I am aware of.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Physics, Nuclear Physics, Astrophysics, etc..

I said it once, I'll say it again.

It specifically states that these are bodies of knowledge and study and the Knowledge-6 cap represents your mastery of that specific body of knowledge. So...

You specialize if you get a Masters in a Science, so if you Major in Physics for your Bachelors and Masters, for your PhD you specialize in one of the specialty fields of Physics such as Nuclear or Astrophysics.

 

[Murdoc]

I said it once, I'll say it again.

It specifically states that these are bodies of knowledge and study and the Knowledge-6 cap represents your mastery of that specific body of knowledge. So...

You specialize if you get a Masters in a Science, so if you Major in Physics for your Bachelors and Masters, for your PhD you specialize in one of the specialty fields of Physics such as Nuclear or Astrophysics.

Are you saying that all of that is in T5, or are you suggesting a different house rule?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Reality.

Are you saying that all of that is in T5, or are you suggesting a different house rule?

It seemed basic common sense to me, not sure how official it is.

 

[pendragonman]

It seemed basic common sense to me, not sure how official it is.

It is also how it is in The US university system. You master a broad topic to get your Master's Degree. PhD work really is all about becoming expert in a much more narrow specialty of your Mastery.

For example: My Masters is in Mathematics. My PhD work is in Capillarity, which is a subset of Calculus of Variations, which is clearly a subset of Mathematics.

 

[Higgipedia]

It is also how it is in The US university system. You master a broad topic to get your Master's Degree. PhD work really is all about becoming expert in a much more narrow specialty of your Mastery.

For example: My Masters is in Mathematics. My PhD work is in Capillarity, which is a subset of Calculus of Variations, which is clearly a subset of Mathematics.

Gotcha. You just change your major at the different educational levels.

Ex. I get my B.S. in Psychology, My M.A. in it as well, but my Ph.D. is in Clinical Psychology.

NOW:

When doing things in game...

Let's say you are using the Counsellor skill.

If I'm giving business advice, it's just the straight skill.

If I'm giving personnel advice (the realm of I/O Psychology), it's Counsellor + Psychology

If I'm giving psychological advice/therapy, it's the sum of all three.

Does that make sense to everyone else here?

 

[pendragonman]

Yep, skill/knowledge synergy

 

[Murdoc]

It seemed basic common sense to me, not sure how official it is.

Well, it doesn't seem like common sense to me, because I don't know that much about how US universities work, and it involves adding in a rule that isn't there. The relevant rules:

A knowledge is a body of information based on a field
of science, training, or experience. For example, Chemistry
reflects the body of knowledge of theoretical and practical
chemistry. The maximum level of a Knowledge is 6.

The Sciences. Some characters can learn a specific
Science through the Education process (maximum =6).

Maximum is 6, end of story. Nothing else is said about it. So from what people are saying your house rule does seem to be more realistic, but it still shows that the rule as written is problematic and needs fixing one way or the other.

 

[pendragonman]

Not a house rule.

Suppose I have Chemistry 6. Next time I get a science knowledge I take chemical bonds. Different knowledge.

 

[Murdoc]

It is a house rule if you can add it to the original Chemistry skill during a task. Then you're working around the limit of 6. If you are not adding it, then it doesn't solve the original problem. Either way, it's an interpretation of the rules that isn't there at all.

 

[pendragonman]

Although Knowledge levels are limited to a maximum of
6, they can be stacked with skills. An Engineer with Drives-7
and Power Systems-4 has a skill level of 7 and can use that
ability when dealing with most starship drives. He has a specialization
in Power systems, which gives him a total skill
level of 11 when dealing with Power Systems.

P145. Clearly things stack.

 

[Murdoc]

You're really reaching, aren't you? Yes, Knowledges stack with Skills. There is nothing saying that Knowledges stack with other Knowledges. "...they can be stacked with skills." That's all it says. That doesn't mean you can stack anything with anything.