Who are the Amindii?

[rancke]

I don't know why, but I have an image in my head of someone secretly scanning all Marc's old campaign notes from the past 35 years, every scrap of hand-written paper, and releasing it all on Wikileaks. I'm not sure the usual readers of that site would quite know what to make of it.

That doesn't really have much to do with my problem. When working in a shared universe, it's what has been established already that counts, not what the various contributors meant to contribute but didn't. I forgot several tidbits I had planned to include in GT:Nobles, such as a mention of an early Sword Worlder settlement on Arden. As a result, there's no canonical fact saying that Arden was settled by Sword Worlders during the Sacnoth Dominate. What I meant to write cuts no ice anywhere.

But if Marc has decided to suddenly reveal the hitherto unsuspected existence of 168 million members of a hitherto unknown minor non-human race on a world hitherto thought to be composed mostly of humans, there's nothing I can do about that[*]. Before I try to deal with repairing the major discrepancies this will cause to the 25,000 words I've already written about Regina, however, I'd sure like to know what else Marc intends to establish about these "newcomers".

[*] Except ignore the new information, of course.​

Hans

 

[SpaceBadger]

But if Marc has decided to suddenly reveal the hitherto unsuspected existence of 168 million members of a hitherto unknown minor non-human race on a world hitherto thought to be composed mostly of humans, there's nothing I can do about that[*]. Before I try to deal with repairing the major discrepancies this will cause to the 25,000 words I've already written about Regina, however, I'd sure like to know what else Marc intends to establish about these "newcomers".

Email him and ask? I understand he is still busy shipping Kickstarter packages right now, but maybe after that?

 

[rancke]

Even though I know that it's a mistake to speculate in advance of data, I haven't been able to refrain from brooding over how to integrate the Amindii with my history of Regina.

(Everything below is strictly my own ideas and does not in any way represent any sort of canon.)

I don't know if the Amindii are indigenous or were transplanted to Regina by the Ancients. In many ways I'd prefer the Ancients, even though I normally try not to use them if there's an alternative. But the Marches already have a goodly number of non-human race homeworlds, and if there's any place in Charted space where the Ancients can be readily justified, it's the Regina subsector.

If they're indigenous, they arose on the continent of Queensland (there's a map of Regina in World Builder's Handbook). I've no idea what prompted their rise to sapiency; that sort of thing is very much not my area of expertise. But they did. If the Ancients transplanted them to Regina for their own ineffable reasons, they were transplanted to Queensland.

When the original settlers from the Imperium came to Regina in 75, the Amindii were in a stone age stage of development. The preliminary Scout survey in 53 had been very cursory, and had missed the existence of the Amindii. (If they had spotted them, the Scouts would have interdicted the world pending further investigation).

Some Amindii may or may not have crossed the straits in between to the continents of Imsu and Ishkis (I can't make my mind up on that). They had not reached any of the other four continents.

Explorers from Credo discovered the Amindii on Queensland (then called something else). In 382, Queen Ruby declared the entire continent a Crown Protectorate belonging to the Amindii.

Today, Amindii are sort of second-class citizens, effectively if not legally. Their participation in civilian and military Reginan government services are on a sort of sepoy scheme, with human officers and administrators supervising lower-ranked Amindii.

Population density among Amindii is considerably higher than among other Reginans.


Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

NIL.

/snip/

If they're indigenous, they arose on the continent of Queensland (there's a map of Regina in World Builder's Handbook). I've no idea what prompted their rise to sapiency; that sort of thing is very much not my area of expertise. But they did. /snip/


Hans

Well, since NIL = Native Intelligent Life, that means they are indigenous to Regina and are not Ancient transplants.

 

[rancke]

Well, since NIL = Native Intelligent Life, that means they are indigenous to Regina and are not Ancient transplants.

Ah well, never mind. I suppose some sectors have to have considerably above the average number of native sapient species (The average is roughly one minor race per three subsectors). And I gather that some or all of the minor races introduced in Behind the Claw have been retconned (or just ignored) out of existence again.

Does this mean that Reginan megafauna is octo-podal?


Hans

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Well, I haven't seen any, but...

Ah well, never mind. I suppose some sectors have to have considerably above the average number of native sapient species (The average is roughly one minor race per three subsectors). And I gather that some or all of the minor races introduced in Behind the Claw have been retconned (or just ignored) out of existence again.

Does this mean that Reginan megafauna is octo-podal?


Hans

I would assume so if the Amindii are can't see why they wouldn't.

 

[Frankymole]

Talking of which, is there a Keith Brothers-worldbuilding-type flora and fauna bestiary of Regina anywhere, or just animal encounter tables? I recall back in '83 my referee had large saurians around the place, but he was probably a closet dinosaur nut.

 

[curmudgeon]

And I gather that some or all of the minor races introduced in Behind the Claw have been retconned (or just ignored) out of existence again.

Since Behind the Claw is a GURPS Traveller book, I would consider it to be an Alternate Traveller Universe source. That being the case, it could easily be ignored as long as you are discussing T5. Now, granted, nothing is ruled out of your own TU is you do not want it to be. That is my personal feeling. YMMV, of course.

 

[rancke]

Since Behind the Claw is a GURPS Traveller book, I would consider it to be an Alternate Traveller Universe source.

No, it's a GURPS Traveller Universe source. And since the GTU is supposed to be identical to the OTU up to some quite recent change point, that makes it an OTU source too.

That being the case, it could easily be ignored as long as you are discussing T5.

As I said. It my impression that some or all of them have been either deliberately retconned or just unthinkingly ignored.


Hans

 

[Bloo]

As I said. It my impression that some or all of them have been either deliberately retconned or just unthinkingly ignored.

A bit early to conclude that, isn't it? Humans are the only race currently detailed (the Zhodani really only have a footnote and two sentences detailing them). And the other main races are effectively only generic proper nouns and images.

 

[rancke]

A bit early to conclude that, isn't it? Humans are the only race currently detailed (the Zhodani really only have a footnote and two sentences detailing them). And the other main races are effectively only generic proper nouns and images.

It is my impression based on the lack of reference to any of these minor races in MgT material. Nor do they seem to appear in the T5 UWP listing where the Amindii first impinged on my conciousness.


Hans

 

[aramis]

No, it's a GURPS Traveller Universe source. And since the GTU is supposed to be identical to the OTU up to some quite recent change point, that makes it an OTU source too.



As I said. It my impression that some or all of them have been either deliberately retconned or just unthinkingly ignored.


Hans

Or Marc's just pointedly ignoring anythign from the Lorenverse. GT looks quite different from the OTU.

And lots of really stupid stuff got added in the extended bits of GT. AR2 and AR3 have been cited repeatedly as not being GT and being really mislabeled G:Space supplements.

 

[rancke]

Or Marc's just pointedly ignoring anythign from the Lorenverse. GT looks quite different from the OTU.

You've made this unwarranted claim before. The new revised OTU of T5 apparently differ in some ways from the GTU, but then, it evidently differs from the old pre-T5 OTU as well. The GTU carefully expanded upon the OTU that existed back then.


Hans

 

[curmudgeon]

The GTU carefully expanded upon the OTU that existed back then.

And so, by its very definition, is different than the OTU. I am not saying it is good, bad, better or worse than the OTU, it is just different. To me, that is a good thing.

 

[rancke]

And so, by its very definition, is different than the OTU.

Not by my definition. If any part of a game universe is undescribed, an official description of that part added later is likewise part of that game universe.

By definition.


Hans

 

[curmudgeon]

And so, by its very definition, is different than the OTU. I am not saying it is good, bad, better or worse than the OTU, it is just different. To me, that is a good thing.

Not by my definition. If any part of a game universe is undescribed, an official description of that part added later is likewise part of that game universe.

By definition.

I guess that is where we will have to politely disagree. I feel that the GURPS Traveller Universe is divergent from the OTU, and so is an alternate and different Traveller Universe. It's cool, I can deal with that, but I feel that anything from that universe is not necessarily part of the Traveller Universe. A Ref can add whatever he or she wants from there, but the GTU stuff is optional to me.

I think the same thing applies to things from the Mongoose Traveller Universe. That, however, is a different message thread.

 

[rancke]

I guess that is where we will have to politely disagree. I feel that the GURPS Traveller Universe is divergent from the OTU, and so is an alternate and different Traveller Universe.

To be divergent, the GTU has to differ from the OTU. And, to be sure, there were a few pre-1114 setting details that were different. Some of those were genuine mistakes and shouldn't have applied to the GTU either. Some of them, however, were deliberate corrections of discrepancies in previously published material about the OTU. I consider those to be bona fide retcons of the OTU, but if you don't, then yes, they are divergencies. But setting those aside, how can the GTU diverge from the OTU when it comes to details never previously covered in any official material? How can you possibly know that they don't apply to the OTU? You might with equal justice claim that Leonard of Aramis is not part of the OTU because he wasn't mentioned in The Kinunir.


Hans

 

[aramis]

You've made this unwarranted claim before. The new revised OTU of T5 apparently differ in some ways from the GTU, but then, it evidently differs from the old pre-T5 OTU as well. The GTU carefully expanded upon the OTU that existed back then.


Hans

For the line as a whole, "carefully" is a flat out lie - BTC was rushed through in a hurry, and got many things wrong. It disagrees with large chunks of TTA, for example. You've complained about this in the past. But BTC has never been adjusted to match the OTU. Nor OTU books errata adjusted to match BTC. From product #2 on, the GTU has been phsyically a different universe.

And then the GTAR series... some of the canon races, some that were explicitly rejected by GDW, and some that are whole cloth new. Any of the new ones, legally are NOT usable. SJG owns the rights, not Marc. And the ones GDW rejected, well, several were rejected, reworked into Spacemaster, then reworked into GURPS, and the author was crowing about it on another site. And people on SJG's board complained about it. But they're not GTU canon...

And then, there's GTFT.... which is utterly incompatible with the descriptions in TTA of a major trade world having only 20KTd worth of ships in and them being in port for major parts of a week.

 

[rancke]

For the line as a whole, "carefully" is a flat out lie - BTC was rushed through in a hurry, and got many things wrong. It disagrees with large chunks of TTA, for example. You've complained about this in the past.

For the line as a whole it is no lie, but BtC is indeed riddled with errors, as I alluded to. It is also quite atypical of the care and attention with which the majority of GT products were written. (I've been told that this was because the wrong draft was published, but I can't vouch for that).

But BTC has never been adjusted to match the OTU. Nor OTU books errata adjusted to match BTC. From product #2 on, the GTU has been phyically a different universe.

Not unless GT editors insisted on letting BtC overrule previously published material that it conflicted with. But I don't think any GT editor ever insisted on that. I know for a fact that when writing Sword Worlds I asked for and got permission to ignore information from BtC.

BtC did get a sizable number of mistakes errata'ed, although not nearly all of them.

And then the GTAR series... some of the canon races, some that were explicitly rejected by GDW, and some that are whole cloth new. Any of the new ones, legally are NOT usable. SJG owns the rights, not Marc. And the ones GDW rejected, well, several were rejected, reworked into Spacemaster, then reworked into GURPS, and the author was crowing about it on another site. And people on SJG's board complained about it. But they're [now] GTU canon...

(I assume you meant 'now', not 'not'.)

I don't think they are canon myself. But there's a great deal of difference between rejecting those minor races for cause and rejecting all the material that WAS written with careful attention to previously published material for no good reason.

And then, there's GTFT.... which is utterly incompatible with the descriptions of a major trade world having only 20KTd worth of ships in and them being in port for major parts of a week.

That was a retcon for cause (Admittedly not as successful a retcon as I would have liked). It's a very good thing that it is utterly incompatible with the utterly unrealistic previously published descriptions of major trade worlds having unbelivably small trade volumes and regular shipping wasting valuable time being in port for major parts of a week.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

What does BcCeFH mean?

That's the Nobles set.
Knight
Baronet
Baron
Viscount
Duke
ArchDuke

Several of those are Norris, but not all of them, and the H doesn't belong on Regina until a bit later.