Where is the laundry?

[vutpakdi]

I have yet to see a set of deckplans (mine included) with a ship's laundry. Are clothes self cleaning in the future? Is there a laundry attachment in each fresher? Do people only do laundry at starport laundromats? Or, are most travellers just pretty stinky in the OTU?

The thought led me to wonder what other sorts of common things are missing from deckplans.
</font>

• lockers/closets. Some deckplans include a ship's locker, but what about storage for clothes, towels, sheets, maintenance supplies, etc?</font>
• galleys - most deckplans don't seem to have a ship's galley. Are most assuming some sort of food dispenser ala Star Trek?</font>
• ship's store - Large ships tend to have some sort of dispensary (sort of like a gift shop/mini convenience store), yet I haven't seen one on any large ship deckplans (not that there are that many.</font>
• what else? - there have to be other things that we're not thinking about...</font>

Anyway, what do you think?

Ron

 

[Jame]

The computer core isn't generally specified, also tvs and radios, plus bookshelves and nightstands?

 

[graden1]

Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
I have yet to see a set of deckplans (mine included) with a ship's laundry. Are clothes self cleaning in the future? Is there a laundry attachment in each fresher? Do people only do laundry at starport laundromats? Or, are most travellers just pretty stinky in the OTU?

The thought led me to wonder what other sorts of common things are missing from deckplans.
</font>

• lockers/closets. Some deckplans include a ship's locker, but what about storage for clothes, towels, sheets, maintenance supplies, etc?</font>
• galleys - most deckplans don't seem to have a ship's galley. Are most assuming some sort of food dispenser ala Star Trek?</font>
• ship's store - Large ships tend to have some sort of dispensary (sort of like a gift shop/mini convenience store), yet I haven't seen one on any large ship deckplans (not that there are that many.</font>
• what else? - there have to be other things that we're not thinking about...</font>

Anyway, what do you think?

Ron

IMTU, high-tech clothing is "self-cleaning" No laundry. Lockers are included in other components, wherever the equipment is needed. Vac suits next to the air lock, tools in engineering, fire extinguishers everywhere, etc.

Galleys are included in the size of staterooms; the "four ton stateroom" is three tons plus one ton from each contributed to common areas. Ditto for other facilities.

Another source of potentially un-allocated tonnage is the bridge. Twenty tons minimum is excessive for smaller ships; some of it might be used for other purposes. Same problem on larger ships with 2% bridge space. Does a 100,000 ton battle cruier need 2,000 tons of bridge? Maybe not. (If it does, could someone explain why?)

DG

 

[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by Digital Golem v2.0:


Another source of potentially un-allocated tonnage is the bridge. Twenty tons minimum is excessive for smaller ships; some of it might be used for other purposes. Same problem on larger ships with 2% bridge space. Does a 100,000 ton battle cruier need 2,000 tons of bridge? Maybe not. (If it does, could someone explain why?)

DG

I've wondered about that one myself. The Traveller's Handbook says that the bridge includes all of the systems needed to run and control the ship (not counting the main computer). That would imply that a lot of the volume used by the bridge is electronics, wiring, etc. that is actually spread throughout the ship. That I can deal with, but it goes on to say that "The tonnage and cost for the bridge of a ship may be allocated among the following areas as per their normal cost and size requirements" and then lists these as the areas:
</font>

• Main Command and Control Bridge</font>
• Command Workstations and Terminals</font>
• Airlocks</font>
• Ship's Locker</font>
• Engineering Shops</font>
• Vehicle Shops</font>
• Laboratories</font>
• Sickbays</font>

Does this mean that the space allocated to the bridge can be used for free (volume-wise) shops, labs, airlocks and so on since the space has already been allocated as "bridge" space? Or does it mean that I need to keep track of how much space I have allocated to all of those items and the total needs to meet or excede the bridge requirement for the ship? And in either case, how much space does a command terminal or command and control bridge take up?

Clarification (or a pointer to an already posted clarification) of this would sure be useful. This ambiguity is actually one of the things I find the most frustrating about the T20 ship design sequence, especially given the number of ships I've built using FF&S and GURPS:Traveller.

 

[Spyder_GS]

IMTU, ship-board clothing is usually disposable jumpsuits (a paper derivative much like surgery scrubs). Normal clothing is worn while dirtside and can be cleaned at starport facilities.
Crew quarters I typically have using bunk beds with built in flat lockers or perhaps a small locker between them (check out crew accomodations and personal space on modern subs).
I have also noticed that the galley is frequently missing. It should be included, as crew and passengers should not be permitted to consume meals in quarters (except the captain).
Weapons lockers really need to be specified as they would be a target of any boarding action.
I have a jpeg of J type Seeker deckplans I did for my game. I tried to include most everything that I typically noticed missing...but I am certain I missed something.
Anyway, I hope that helps.

 

[WarriorKnight]

The galley is part of your common area.A washer/dryer combo is probably in there also.

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by BrennanHawkwood:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Digital Golem v2.0:


Another source of potentially un-allocated tonnage is the bridge. Twenty tons minimum is excessive for smaller ships; some of it might be used for other purposes. Same problem on larger ships with 2% bridge space. Does a 100,000 ton battle cruier need 2,000 tons of bridge? Maybe not. (If it does, could someone explain why?)

DG

I've wondered about that one myself. The Traveller's Handbook says that the bridge includes all of the systems needed to run and control the ship (not counting the main computer). That would imply that a lot of the volume used by the bridge is electronics, wiring, etc. that is actually spread throughout the ship. That I can deal with, but it goes on to say that "The tonnage and cost for the bridge of a ship may be allocated among the following areas as per their normal cost and size requirements" and then lists these as the areas:
</font>

• Main Command and Control Bridge</font>
• Command Workstations and Terminals</font>
• Airlocks</font>
• Ship's Locker</font>
• Engineering Shops</font>
• Vehicle Shops</font>
• Laboratories</font>
• Sickbays</font>

Does this mean that the space allocated to the bridge can be used for free (volume-wise) shops, labs, airlocks and so on since the space has already been allocated as "bridge" space? Or does it mean that I need to keep track of how much space I have allocated to all of those items and the total needs to meet or excede the bridge requirement for the ship? And in either case, how much space does a command terminal or command and control bridge take up?
</font>[/QUOTE]I've had similar questions and thoughts running through my mind as well. I generally just assume that the bridge space requirements do allow for "free" corridors, air locks, and ship's galleys, but not for things like sickbays, vehicle shops, and such.

Ron

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by Digital Golem v2.0:

IMTU, high-tech clothing is "self-cleaning" No laundry. Lockers are included in other components, wherever the equipment is needed. Vac suits next to the air lock, tools in engineering, fire extinguishers everywhere, etc.

Galleys are included in the size of staterooms; the "four ton stateroom" is three tons plus one ton from each contributed to common areas. Ditto for other facilities.

Another source of potentially un-allocated tonnage is the bridge. Twenty tons minimum is excessive for smaller ships; some of it might be used for other purposes. Same problem on larger ships with 2% bridge space. Does a 100,000 ton battle cruier need 2,000 tons of bridge? Maybe not. (If it does, could someone explain why?)

DG

My point was mostly that deckplans often don't have these sorts of spaces allocated. The staterooms in my deckplans are normally 2.5 dTons with the remaining space allocated to common areas. I've included galleys and ship's lockers on my ships (as part of the stateroom allocation), but I've forgotten about laundrys, linens closets, and janitorial closets.

I'm not sure that I buy the "self cleaning" or "disposable paper" clothes ideas, particularly since clothes aren't necessarily going to all be high tech. At what tech level do clothes become self cleaning? A number of starships are built at TL-9. Are clothes self cleaning at TL-9? If not, do TL-9 ships need a little laundry?

A little washer-dryer built into a fresher (or part of the wall in a cabin does make some sense to me). I'd still see high passage passengers handing their laundry to the steward though.

Ron

 

[far-trader]

In my deckplans I use a general "half" rule. Half of any component volume (eg. bridge, Jump drive, stateroom, etc.) is the actual component displacement while half the remaining is required for access, and the rest is support features (eg. workstations for the bridge, tools and parts for the Jump drive, common space/galley for the staterooms).

Each stateroom (2.0dT IMTU) includes a standard fresher that is a combination shower/head/laundry and also includes a mini recycler that dispenses water and liquid based foods (soups, puddings, etc.), chewy bars, and crunchy bars. These foods are ok and some even like it but most can't get over the source, especially since its so immediate. In actual fact the source only provides the nutrient for the culture that is the food base. Flavors and colors are added and the whole is processed for the desired consistancy. This is the bulk of the middle passage and crew fare and service, while officers and high passage get more real food and steward service. Oops, got carried away there

I also agree that if one is allowed to include the features suggested for the bridge, after the listed 10T minimum (of the 20T minimum

) then why can't I have a 10t minimum bridge? Because its wrong?! So I figure the 'bridge' is half controls (wiring, reaction thrusters/lifters/landing skids, etc.), and half the remaining is workstations (at 1 per dTon including access, so the minimum 'bridge' includes 5 workstations, typically 4 on the actual bridge and 1 in engineering). The rest is the required airlock (3dT) and ship's lockers (2dT). Larger bridges follow the same progression.

 

[graden1]

Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
My point was mostly that deckplans often don't have these sorts of spaces allocated. The staterooms in my deckplans are normally 2.5 dTons with the remaining space allocated to common areas. I've included galleys and ship's lockers on my ships (as part of the stateroom allocation), but I've forgotten about laundrys, linens closets, and janitorial closets.

I'm not sure that I buy the "self cleaning" or "disposable paper" clothes ideas, particularly since clothes aren't necessarily going to all be high tech. At what tech level do clothes become self cleaning? A number of starships are built at TL-9. Are clothes self cleaning at TL-9? If not, do TL-9 ships need a little laundry?

A little washer-dryer built into a fresher (or part of the wall in a cabin does make some sense to me). I'd still see high passage passengers handing their laundry to the steward though.

Ron

I've read about "dirt-free" fabrics currently in testing, say around TL-8. I just wish I could remember where I read that, and a few other details. I think it was Scientific American, something about nano-tech, but I can't remember. Oh, heck, I read too much, anyway. Just call it TL-9. Works for me.

DG

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by thrash:
A true Classic Traveller fan would realize that laundry service is provided at each port-of-call, and paid for out of the "life support" costs for each stateroom.

The "laundry service at port of call" doesn't strike me as very practical.

For passengers, this idea works the most given that it may be okay for them to do laundry when they get to the next stop, sort of like not doing laundry until the end of a cruise today.

However, most people still find the access to laundry service during a cruise or trip to be beneficial in case of accidents or light packing.

For the crew, particularly large crews or military ship crews, not having laundry done until you get to a port doesn't work very well. Military/scout crews won't necessarily stop every week, and the idea of a large ship sending all of its laundry "ashore" every week boggles the mind from a logistics and security standpoint.

Ron

 

[graden1]

Originally posted by thrash:
A true Classic Traveller fan would realize that laundry service is provided at each port-of-call, and paid for out of the "life support" costs for each stateroom.

Idunno, some of the traveller characters in those campaigns never did much laundry anyway.

However, it's a good point. From now on, IMTU, starports of class D or better will have laundry facilities. That's fine for free traders hitting port once a week. However, the characters in my game are on a scout cruiser headed for parts unknown, so they'll have to do their own laundry, or stick with the self-cleaning tailored vac suits the IISS issued them. An explorer's life is so tough....

DG

 

[Cheng984]

IMTU any Navy ship with a crew size greater than 100 has a Service Division.

All of the below is included in the stateroom volume. I only use it to provide some fidelity to my crew numbers. I admit that I do not make deckplans for my ship designs. But I do try and keep them realistic by counting all the support personnel that would be required to keep a ship operational.

Laundry facility. To minimize on space, it would be centralized, with each department having an assigned laundry day. Based on the size of the crew, you could have 1 person from the Service Division run the equipment, and a small working party from the Department bringing the cloths down and returning them clean. Items that could be sent to the ships laundry would be limited…not your liberty clothes, only the basic uniform. I see a utility coverall type uniform for all.

The ships store would be a small counter with personal items. Replacement coveralls, ect. Then some storage space for the stock room, size based on the crew numbers.

A space bag locker is a must. Would hold your Liberty clothes in standardized sealed containers. Access would be prior to a liberty port.

You would also need a barbershop. Again, one or two from the Service Division to maintain and run the shop, would be required.

If we are talking Merchants, then you have to rethink the priorities.
The high passage passengers would have full laundry service, but I think the prices would be comparable to having a high priced hotel do your laundry. If money is no object, or your down to your shirt, you do it. Otherwise you bring it home.

To account for the higher usage of water that the high passage passengers would use, the crew would have very limited access to laundry facilities. Especially the portion of the crew (i.e. engineers) who do not interact with the passengers.

And on small ships you would probably have nothing.

 

[eclipse]

Originally posted by WarriorKnight:
The galley is part of your common area.A washer/dryer combo is probably in there also.

Or it could be part of the fresher system. Put your clothes in a slot as you shower. After you wash and dry off, you pull the clean clothes out of the slot.

 

[GJD]

Clare W Hess produced two sets of deckplans for the traveller 2300 game, one of the Aconit class frigate and one for the Thorez class courier which would serve as TL 9 designs (i guess). Both are excellent designs, and both include laundries, dedicated life support equipment and crew galleys. They can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/