What's Coming in T5
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Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
To be honest, although T5 is obviously a done deal I see nothing here that hasn't already been mooted (no pun intended) in the playtest forums and much which has been highly criticised for being either unplayable or over-complex.
I have until this point been ever the optimist regarding T5, believing that from CT/MT/T4 a really excellent game could be produced, modern and exciting. But what is being hinted at in that document is everything that has been slated so far.
Flux :nonono:
Font based deckplans
Knowledges
full of potential but looking dodgy.Dice Pools: they really *@£$ me off. So much for simplicity.
Inconsistent Attributes: bad enough changing attributes between systems but when PC's in one system all have different attributes......
I hope Matt Sprange knows what he's getting himself into.
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
Actually it's not a bad idea. Helps if you have a bit more information on how it works and is applied.
Font based deckplans
Again a pretty nice idea. Makes it fairly easy to put together a deckplan.
Knowledges
Not really a whole lot different from cascade skills.
Not a huge fan myself, but it works.
This isn't a new thing. Been around in Traveller since CT.
I just read that PD and nothing really jumped out at me as a must have.
I was never a big fan of the Traveller aliens and as for Robot characters, I like them even less.
It seems to me that they are making things even more complex than needs be. Like the Dice chapter that states it will have charts showing all posible outcomes. Do we really need that? I am all for realism, but not at the expense of playability. What is wrong with a plain old percentage chance.
On the positive side I like some of the stuff mentioned in the Character creation.
I guess I will have to take a wait and see approach, I may end up loving it, (I will end up buying it) But for now I will be happy playing T20.
R
I was never a big fan of the Traveller aliens and as for Robot characters, I like them even less.
It seems to me that they are making things even more complex than needs be. Like the Dice chapter that states it will have charts showing all posible outcomes. Do we really need that? I am all for realism, but not at the expense of playability. What is wrong with a plain old percentage chance.
On the positive side I like some of the stuff mentioned in the Character creation.
I guess I will have to take a wait and see approach, I may end up loving it, (I will end up buying it) But for now I will be happy playing T20.
R
This is essentially a minor revision of a document released last year. It gives me little hope for T5 being playable.
As for the xd6 system, it barely works, and precludes effective use of "undeclared difficulty tasks" (a common GM use), and makes uncertain tasks awkward.
The emphasis on "RDME" is another way of saying "Game Construction Kit" or "Needless complexity"...
... and that isn't of need a good thing....
As for the xd6 system, it barely works, and precludes effective use of "undeclared difficulty tasks" (a common GM use), and makes uncertain tasks awkward.
The emphasis on "RDME" is another way of saying "Game Construction Kit" or "Needless complexity"...
... and that isn't of need a good thing....
Actually I'm mildy affirmative in my outlook to this draft.
It is expressed in a somewhat technical, equational manner. Hopefully when that's translated into proper RP prose it won't look so complicated.
If you expressed d20 in such a way it would look even more complex and arcane.
If you compare it to the alchemy in Burning Wheel it's downright simple, and that didn't seem so complicated once I'd read through it.
As for tables, possibly they are just for reference, rather than necessary for play?
I think a systematic creation system for aliens and robots is handy, playable characters or not. And a drag and drop starship design sequence has potential. Shouldn't be too difficult to whip up a flash based app to replicate it, inc deckplans.
If T5 is meant to be the advanced grognard toolkit for obsessive players and refs, and the Mongoose version an 'out of the box' play version, then on reflection I'm not unhappy with what I've seen so far. Still work to be done, but a 5 page summary does not an rpg make.
It is expressed in a somewhat technical, equational manner. Hopefully when that's translated into proper RP prose it won't look so complicated.
If you expressed d20 in such a way it would look even more complex and arcane.
If you compare it to the alchemy in Burning Wheel it's downright simple, and that didn't seem so complicated once I'd read through it.
As for tables, possibly they are just for reference, rather than necessary for play?
I think a systematic creation system for aliens and robots is handy, playable characters or not. And a drag and drop starship design sequence has potential. Shouldn't be too difficult to whip up a flash based app to replicate it, inc deckplans.
If T5 is meant to be the advanced grognard toolkit for obsessive players and refs, and the Mongoose version an 'out of the box' play version, then on reflection I'm not unhappy with what I've seen so far. Still work to be done, but a 5 page summary does not an rpg make.
with 1000 pages - yes I think it might be (rubs hands with glee).
(& I see that drunk hiver is back and managed to get into the preview)
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
My biggest complaint is having to find a way to distinguish "positive" and "negative" dice. If you have to mark up the dice you take out of the Monopoly set, it gets a little tougher to just grab and go.
I haven't had a chance to really look yet, but they were being touted (in discussions in the Moot) as something different than cascades. They might be good, but they will add complexity (if you use them).Not really a whole lot different from cascade skills.Knowledges
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Where's the Droyne?
Everything is better with Droyne!
Or at least chocolate covered droyne...
I am going to be disappointed in a handful of dice system, if I read that right...
I've been waiting for a nice size comparison chart for the races, but why does the Aslan look like it has a clown face?
Lots of detail I know I'm going to like, tho.
I've been waiting for a nice size comparison chart for the races, but why does the Aslan look like it has a clown face?
Lots of detail I know I'm going to like, tho.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Is the vaunted "Flux" system "roll 1 die and subtract a second die"? That mechanic yields a -5 to +5 range with "0" being typical.
If so, I am deeply skeptical. It sounds like an obtuse way to produce a standard 2d6 bell curve.
If so, I am deeply skeptical. It sounds like an obtuse way to produce a standard 2d6 bell curve.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, tbeard, for some folks it produces a nice "centered on 0" bit, which allows for easy addition and subtraction to other things. What makes it harder is simply changing from the idea of "add all the pips to get the total" method.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
<shrug>
Still seems like a needlessly fussy and obtuse way to generate the familiar 2d6 curve. It also creates a higher "hassle factor" since you now have to keep track of which die is the positive and which is the negative.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't appear that it can do anything that a standard 2d6 roll can't do. And, it will have the same limitations of the 2d6 curve (modest bonuses can have a large effect on probabilities, rolls must effectively be sequential, etc.)
So...more fussy, no more capable. It's hard for me to get excited about that. Nor am I persuaded by the "centered on 0 argument". Seems like a lot of fussiness to go to so that someone can add small numbers.
Oh, and this "innovative" system (it isn't; I've seen it in miniature wargames from the 1970s) could be replicated by simply rolling 2d6 and subtracting 7. Same probabiities, simpler mechanic...
--Ty
Gruffty
SOC-14 1K
Meh. You all thought we Hivers won't be appearing in T5, didn't you? Well, you were wrong....
As for the actual contents of the documents themselves:
Skills: Looks OK, but I'm not sure how skills and knowledges would work in practice though;
Task system comparison: A possibly useful document, but the explanations of the mechanics behind the comparisons isn't clear. However, it does explain Marc's stance on the roll low/roll high for tasks debate. I must admit to being disappointed with the decision to go with the Flux thing and the "handsful of dice" approach to tasks (but, meh, I'm an old 2D roll high grognard.....).
Coming in T5: Interesting but not really informative - it hints at stuff such as the two new UWP extensions (Cultural and Economic) yet doesn't give any indication of why they're needed or how they're generated (I don't mean exact rules here; I mean something along the lines of "the Cultural Extension is derived from Population, Government, Law Level and Allegiance data" - that's just me speculating, btw the document doesn't actually say that's how it's generated).
I can see the potentials here, but I'm not convinced about it all....
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Ah, the Crunchy Droyne...the finest baby Droyne, dew-picked and flown in, cleansed in finest-quality spring water, lightly killed, and then sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Much better than the Vargr Surprise...
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Puppy died, late last fall...
He's still rotting in the hall...
Dead puppies aren't much fun.
Mommy said, puppy's days are thru
She threw puppy in the stew...
Dead puppies aren't much fun.
He's still rotting in the hall...
Dead puppies aren't much fun.
Mommy said, puppy's days are thru
She threw puppy in the stew...
Dead puppies aren't much fun.
Ahah! You geneered cavemen are no match for the awesome power of the Droyne! You've fallen for the third greatest blunder in history: If it looks like chocolate on a Droyne, it's actually a personal black globe projector!
<insert maniacal insectoid-reptiloid hissing laughter here>
Or scale rot. Er, whichever comes first. You know how those mites get under your scales and just won't go away no matter how many you cast into the Pocket Universe of Mites and Other Unsavory Personages? Yeah. That.
And Vargr Surprise isn't bad. Enough tabasco and jalapenos'll make anything edible, even hivers...
<insert maniacal insectoid-reptiloid hissing laughter here>
Or scale rot. Er, whichever comes first. You know how those mites get under your scales and just won't go away no matter how many you cast into the Pocket Universe of Mites and Other Unsavory Personages? Yeah. That.
And Vargr Surprise isn't bad. Enough tabasco and jalapenos'll make anything edible, even hivers...
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