What is the point of 5e Traveller

[Bartleby]

You have a consistent and very particular version of what Traveller is and isn't. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

FTR I am a proto-traveller disciple. Which I am not sure fits in your narrow definition of Traveller. Not that it really matters what either of us think.

 

[mike wightman]

Let's take a look at what we are being told:
"All of Traveller’s classic themes remain: free traders chasing profit on the edge of civilization, mercenaries taking contracts in bizarre, alien conflicts, explorers pushing beyond the frontiers, interstellar adventurers jumping from port to port, job to job, making their mark upon whole worlds, systems, and sectors."

Sounds like Traveller to me.

Next we have key points:

• 65+ starships with reference deck plans
• 20+ small craft with reference deck plans
• Complete ship creation rules
• Adapted space combat with vector movement options
• Complete world creation rules
• 45+ illustrated alien animals with rules to create thousands more
• 85+ illustrated vehicles with design rules to make more
• 100+ illustrated robots with rules to make more
• Player Character robot options: androids, cyborgs, avatars and clones

Still sounds like Traveller to me. How about their setting?

"The CivX Primer ​

Millennia ago, slower-than-light vessels carried human colonists to distant worlds. Descendents of the oldest colony prospered, mastered the jump drive, and settled dozens of nearby systems. Now this thriving civilization wants to learn the fates of the other colonies spawned by that ancient effort.

The CivX Primer PDF introduces adventures, worlds, and aliens of a whole new Traveller 5E setting.

• Mission One: Beyond the Trailing Gap A dangerous, deep-space stunt could blaze a trail to an unexplored region of space.

Unlocked stretch goals, more content added to the CivX Primer!

• Mission Two: Hot Rocks, Cold Rocks A survey team is about to close the file on an unremarkable star system when they discover a surprising opportunity.
• Mission Three: An Anchor in Deep Time A puzzling anomaly seems almost too tempting to ignore, but diverting to investigate could leave the travellers stranded forever. "

This reminds me of the Islands cluster, the settlement of Hinterworlds and Spica before jump travel.

Traveller 5E holds onto the iconic lifepath character creation for which Traveller is well known.

"Traveller’s iconic character generation and other rules are seamlessly merged into 5E"​

"Every mission, risk, and job you take in Traveller 5E impacts the worlds around you. Chase profits on the edges of the universe, take interstellar jumps from port to port in search of bizarre contracts, or maneuver your starship into deep-space combat to make your mark on the cosmos. Traveller 5E meshes all these science-fiction elements into the most adventurous, heroic game system ever devised!"

 

[mike wightman]

"Starships and Space Travel​

With over 65 starships and 20 small craft, all presented with a reference deck plan, you can take to the stars.

The Traveller 5E Starship book includes complete rules to create your own custom ships to jump and maneuver drives, and weapons from lasers to meson guns. Detailed rules for ship operations cover power systems, life support, sensors, drives, repairs, and more!

Traveller's space combat rules are skillfully tweaked into familiar 5E play, including missiles, mines, gravitic shielding, and even vector-based space combat.

Every key interstellar activity is brought to life, from trade and commerce to exploration and encounters, plus sector and system creation and mapping, jump travel, and more!"

I'm not sure about gravitic shielding, but since MgT has already introduced it into Chartee Space (read the description of energy screens)...

the rest reads like a starships supplement for any version of Traveller. Who knows, the design system may fix some of the issues...

"Worlds and Vehicles​

Game systems reflect real-world astrophysics and let you create each star and its many worlds, from size to atmosphere to special considerations of gravity, vacuum, temperature, terrain and movement, and animal encounters.

The Traveller 5E Worlds and Vehicles book includes:

• 45+ illustrated alien animals with rules to create thousands more, along with guidance for exotic planetary encounters and dangers
• Rules governing planetary surface exploration, including terrestrial composition and density, exotic world oceans, mapping tools, and population considerations like cities, governments, laws and society
• 85+ illustrated vehicles with complete design rules for chassis, armor, locomotion, drones, and even biotech!"

So very familiar to Traveller in its many incarnations...

"Gear and Robots​

A cornucopia of science-fiction equipment, the Traveller 5E Gear and Robots book includes armor, comms, computers, medical gear, sensors, survival gear, and weapons from swords to fusion guns.

Choose from 100+ illustrated robots, from nanobots to giant war bots, with extensive robot construction rules for chassis, brains, locomotion, power, sensors and more.

Rules for robots - including androids, cyborgs, avatars, and clones - as player characters!"

Nothing that can't be found in MgT supplements these days...

 

[Rupert]

If you want to say anything with 2D6 8+ "is traveller", be my guest. Cepheus is not Traveller. It's just another SF game with similar mechanics. But we all know, mechanics are not what makes Traveller.

CT didn't even have that. A consistent difficulty and task system wasn't non-optional until MT

TNE is Traveller, and not Twilight 2K or DC, even those they share mechanics, and it's not the 2D6 8+ mechanic. 2300AD is NOT Traveller. (Even though they tried to brand it that way early on.) It's different in every way save that being tossed out into vacuum is still Bad.

Well, it's at least as lethal it you get caught without your armoured undies on, so it's got that in common with CT.

D20 is Traveller. Hero Traveller is Traveller. GURPs Traveller is Traveller. Mongoose is Traveller. None of these share mechanics. But they all share the Imperium.

T5 is only Traveller because Marc wrote it and he has say so, other than that, it's just a large bag of soulless mechanics and systems.

TNE is arguably almost not-Traveller, aside from GDW saying that it was (well, okay, it did include a recognisable Spinward Marches to try and pacify the traditionalists).

Right now, at first glance, T5e is a $1000(!!) set of Not Traveller. It's just a (apparently) very small SF setting, and a bunch of collateral. As far as I can tell, the only resemblance to Traveller will likely be the ubiquitous 100 dTon Scout and 200 dTon Trader.

Other than that, it just seems like some big, one shot of a collateral dump with the D&D rule set tweaked for guns and lasers. The only thing that makes 5e Traveller is Matt says so, like Marc and T5, and he can put that sticker on anything he wants.

I think how 'Traveller' it is will depend on the rules for world generation, space travel, and spaceship design. If these things have the 'look and feel' of a traditional Traveller rules set, and there's a decent job done of making classes that fit, it'll work. If not, it'll just be another '5e SF' game.

I wish them the best, but I'd want at leas the full set of books, so it's too rich for my blood, especially in the current economic climate.

 

[Rupert]

Let's take a look at what we are being told:
"All of Traveller’s classic themes remain: free traders chasing profit on the edge of civilization, mercenaries taking contracts in bizarre, alien conflicts, explorers pushing beyond the frontiers, interstellar adventurers jumping from port to port, job to job, making their mark upon whole worlds, systems, and sectors."

That does also describe Space Opera, though - and not many people would consider that to be at all 'Traveller'.

Sounds like Traveller to me.

Next we have key points:

• 65+ starships with reference deck plans
• 20+ small craft with reference deck plans
• Complete ship creation rules
• Adapted space combat with vector movement options
• Complete world creation rules
• 45+ illustrated alien animals with rules to create thousands more
• 85+ illustrated vehicles with design rules to make more
• 100+ illustrated robots with rules to make more
• Player Character robot options: androids, cyborgs, avatars and clones

Still sounds like Traveller to me. How about their setting?

That's any reasonably comprehensive SF game, and "Player Character robot options: androids, cyborgs, avatars and clones" is not actually very traditional Traveller. Which is not to say it's badwrongfun, but it's not trad Traveller.

"The CivX Primer ​

Millennia ago, slower-than-light vessels carried human colonists to distant worlds. Descendents of the oldest colony prospered, mastered the jump drive, and settled dozens of nearby systems. Now this thriving civilization wants to learn the fates of the other colonies spawned by that ancient effort.

The CivX Primer PDF introduces adventures, worlds, and aliens of a whole new Traveller 5E setting.

• Mission One: Beyond the Trailing Gap A dangerous, deep-space stunt could blaze a trail to an unexplored region of space.

Unlocked stretch goals, more content added to the CivX Primer!

• Mission Two: Hot Rocks, Cold Rocks A survey team is about to close the file on an unremarkable star system when they discover a surprising opportunity.
• Mission Three: An Anchor in Deep Time A puzzling anomaly seems almost too tempting to ignore, but diverting to investigate could leave the travellers stranded forever. "

This reminds me of the Islands cluster, the settlement of Hinterworlds and Spica before jump travel.

Or a Sword Worlds campaign run shortly after they set themselves up (okay, they had jump drives, but much of the feel and themes will be the same). This is very much early Traveller, before everything was mapped in.

 

[faherman]

I can understand trying to onboard new people by translating Traveller to a different system. Savage Worlds is quite popular for adapting setting to. But if you're not going to keep the system or the setting? How are these new fans going to get from the new setting to the Traveller we all know?

Seems to me that quite possibly it won’t, and that that’s not the point. Rather, it’s for people who want to use a familiar ruleset that a lot of one’s friends may already know, but have a nice, comprehensive, ideally “ultimate” space-sf application of it — with somebody having realized that hey, a porting-over of Traveller would be perfect for that! With the name-recognition of Traveller as THE D&D-equivalent of space gaming. Which seems reasonable. A win for WLG, because they potentially get a well-selling new core space rpg out of it; and a win for Mongoose, for the money from licensing it to WLG.

That’s completely speculation on my part; I might very well be entirely wrong. But it makes more sense to me than either an attempt to gateway into Mongoose, or an attempt to get players (as opposed to collectors) of other Traveller rulesets to use this too. Even more so if the selling point here is Comprehensive Space Toolkit RPG (like the original LBBs were), rather than Imperium RPG.

 

[kilemall]

Assuming they stay away from 3I setting, also avoiding Imperial entanglements and clean room IP.

 

[PatriciaJane]

OK, first off this is not meant to disparage 5e Traveller.

I was thinking about 5e Traveller, after the funding campaign launched. It occurred to me that it uses neither the core Traveller system — 2d6, nor the Traveller setting. I'm not even sure they are using the Traveller Aliens; Hivers, Aslan, Vargr It's still quite possible it will use alot of the underlaying assumptions, TLs, Jump Drive, Trade and Travel, Etc.

But it seems odd to me that they have chosen to forgo alot of what makes up Traveller. It would have been super simple to work up an 2-3 page overview of the Third Imperium, and a map Border sector like Antares, Empty Quarter or Stars End. As Is I don't see anything to recommended it to an existing Traveller Player. But maybe I'm missing something.

The 5e Traveller art on display features Hivers, Aslan, Vargyr, Droyne, various Humans, so there must be some connection to the typical Traveller universe in the new rule books. The CivX campaign setting pdf is a bonus extra, not a part of the rulebooks.

 

[mike wightman]

Today we get a video with some character generation details:

 

[spank]

Today we get a video with some character generation details:

I wish we'd gotten more of this kind of stuff before the campaign launched. It was long on hype and name recognition, short on details

 

[mike wightman]

There are another six videos to come, including more setting details.

 

[whartung]

No EDU or SS. I never really considered SS to be an "Imperium" thing, that they allude to. It was more "in the Imperium this is how the stat works". Watch any old western movie and tell me there weren't manifestations of Social Standing in those mini cinematic societies, as well as many others.

Still curious how levels work. You'd think that terms of service would award raw XP, and that was used to level the character through the terms. Does a 5 term player come out at Level 5? Level 1? 2? 10? They're talking "adventuring and gaining experience", so have to assume they're level something (I have no idea how D20 dealt with levels).

Can't say I'm fond of the idea of a character coming out of chargen with "medical debt". May as well burden the with student loans as well.

Like my gaming a bit more escapist, thanks.

 

[spank]

No EDU or SS. I never really considered SS to be an "Imperium" thing, that they allude to. It was more "in the Imperium this is how the stat works". Watch any old western movie and tell me there weren't manifestations of Social Standing in those mini cinematic societies, as well as many others.

Still curious how levels work. You'd think that terms of service would award raw XP, and that was used to level the character through the terms. Does a 5 term player come out at Level 5? Level 1? 2? 10? They're talking "adventuring and gaining experience", so have to assume they're level something (I have no idea how D20 dealt with levels).

Can't say I'm fond of the idea of a character coming out of chargen with "medical debt". May as well burden the with student loans as well.

Like my gaming a bit more escapist, thanks.

The thing that always gets me about d20 implementations is people think it *has* to have to include XP, HP, and so on.
You can do d20 without these thing, and doing d20 doesn't mean you can't have things like SOC.

 

[aramis]

CT didn't even have that. A consistent difficulty and task system wasn't non-optional until MT

Wasn't even offered in rules until MT.

 

[Rupert]

Wasn't even offered in rules until MT.

The task system that ended up becoming the MT task system started out in The Travellers' Digest, starting in 1985, and was recognisable as the UTP system at least a year before MT was published. So it was around for CT, but not official.

Still curious how levels work. You'd think that terms of service would award raw XP, and that was used to level the character through the terms. Does a 5 term player come out at Level 5? Level 1? 2? 10? They're talking "adventuring and gaining experience", so have to assume they're level something (I have no idea how D20 dealt with levels).

That's how T20 dealt with previous experience - each term got you some XP.

Can't say I'm fond of the idea of a character coming out of chargen with "medical debt". May as well burden the with student loans as well.

MgT2 has this - if you get injured from a failed survival roll or a special event you can end up in debt. Using anagathics prior to play can run up medical debt in MgT2 as well and I don't recall seeing a cap on the debt.

 

[mike wightman]

The DGP task system became almost official for CT when it was presented in Challenge magazine prior to the MT release.

As to starting with medical debt, the video makes that sound optional. I have seen medical debt somewhere else - some Cyberpunk like game or I could be remembering a house rule. How starting with medical debt is anymore debilitating than starting with ship mortgage is something that people will have to explain to me.