What is the point of 5e Traveller

[spank]

OK, first off this is not meant to disparage 5e Traveller.

I was thinking about 5e Traveller, after the funding campaign launched. It occurred to me that it uses neither the core Traveller system — 2d6, nor the Traveller setting. I'm not even sure they are using the Traveller Aliens; Hivers, Aslan, Vargr It's still quite possible it will use alot of the underlaying assumptions, TLs, Jump Drive, Trade and Travel, Etc.

But it seems odd to me that they have chosen to forgo alot of what makes up Traveller. It would have been super simple to work up an 2-3 page overview of the Third Imperium, and a map Border sector like Antares, Empty Quarter or Stars End. As Is I don't see anything to recommended it to an existing Traveller Player. But maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Muad'dib Pendragon]

Disregarding the high-end pledge levels that definitely cater to Traveller grognards, this seems meant for someone less than familiar with Traveller as a potential crossover from D&D 5e, as well as an attempt to grow the Traveller fan base.

 

[spank]

I can understand trying to onboard new people by translating Traveller to a different system. Savage Worlds is quite popular for adapting setting to. But if you're not going to keep the system or the setting? How are these new fans going to get from the new setting to the Traveller we all know?

 

[Rupert]

Ah, this takes me back to the heady days of the 90s, and the announcement of TNE.

 

[mike wightman]

The original Traveller had no setting , that came later. You and your group were meant to explore a universe of your own making, with Traveller providing the tools needed to generate characters, run personal combat, design worlds and subsectors, etc.

Traveller, in the words of MWM himself, was meant to be a set of "generic sci fi" rules. Take the novels, comics, TV shows and movies that you enjoy as inspiration.

T5e will provide character generation, combat resolution , and all the tools to design worlds, encounters, starships etc using familiar Traveller technological tropes.

Mongoose retains the IP for Charted Space, so they need a different setting to provide sample adventures and a campaign, hence CivX. I would imagine you will be encouraged to purchase MgT products for Charted Space, and someone is bound to do conversion rules.

Looking at the current state of the kickstarter on backerkit, $450,000 and 1,342 backers. A good MgT kickstarter is around 1,200.

 

[Takei]

I can understand trying to onboard new people by translating Traveller to a different system. Savage Worlds is quite popular for adapting setting to. But if you're not going to keep the system or the setting? How are these new fans going to get from the new setting to the Traveller we all know?

In all the discussions it sounds like most people are focussing solely on the D&D SRD and assuming the other systems will be new. AFAIK there's nothing stopping WLD from using the Mongoose Traveller 1e SRD (or Cepheus) as their base for star systems, starships and vehicles. If they do that, it opens up a LOT of existing material for groups to use.

Personally, I won't be backing the KS as there's no preview and WLD are a bit too tight-lipped about details like those above. I do however wish them well.

 

[spank]

In all the discussions it sounds like most people are focussing solely on the D&D SRD and assuming the other systems will be new. AFAIK there's nothing stopping WLD from using the Mongoose Traveller 1e SRD (or Cepheus) as their base for star systems, starships and vehicles. If they do that, it opens up a LOT of existing material for groups to use.

Personally, I won't be backing the KS as there's no preview and WLD are a bit too tight-lipped about details like those above. I do however wish them well.

For me the thing keeping me from backing it is the timeline, October 2027? That quite a lengthy development period.

 

[Takei]

For me the thing keeping me from backing it is the timeline, October 2027? That quite a lengthy development period.

It does make me wonder how much has already been done. Luckily I've only been burned a few times with KS, but this one is too much outlay for too much uncertainty. I'll keep an eye on it though.

 

[whartung]

The original Traveller had no setting , that came later. You and your group were meant to explore a universe of your own making, with Traveller providing the tools needed to generate characters, run personal combat, design worlds and subsectors, etc.

Traveller, in the words of MWM himself, was meant to be a set of "generic sci fi" rules. Take the novels, comics, TV shows and movies that you enjoy as inspiration.

Sure.

But there's what they say, and what they do.

Outside of the earliest versions, and T5, which, to be honest, is an outlier, despite its...uh...mass, all of the Traveller editions push the Imperial setting.

We all know why the very first editions didn't cover the Imperium, and we also know why they did not hesitate to advance it going forward.

I also don't count Cephus and the other "Traveller-esque" games.

At this point, in this day and age, Traveller and the Imperium are conjoined twins.

You'll note that even GURPs didn't come out with a "The Imperium" supplement, like they did with so many other worlds and universes. They came out with "Traveller(tm)(reg.us.pat.off.)" -- including the Imperium.

What's curious is why the Imperium is not part of T5e.

 

[spank]

To me that is the real curious thing, I think what makes "Traveller" is The system and The setting, If you have both of these is is very easy to slide between games. You can stand up from Joe's game and sit down at Mike's game very easily. If you loose one of them it's still fairly easy to adjust.

Going back to early CT, with no setting, It was still very easy to slide between games, because you knew the system. Going to later versions of Traveller the system may have been different but the setting was still there to tie things together. I could sit down at a GURPS Traveller game and know what to expect, I would only need to learn the system. Ditto for the other versions or homebrew ports, such as Savage Worlds. Additionally you can sit down at a table and play Rider, Pioneer, Orbital 2100, Seasons of the Dead, or any other 2d6 game very easily because you know the system.

What's curious is why the Imperium is not part of T5e.

 

[Bartleby]

At this point, in this day and age, Traveller and the Imperium are conjoined twins.

Sure, if (as you say) you don't count the original, the latest (T5) and Cepheus then OK sure they are twins. But most of us do count them. There are plenty of examples of people playing Traveller without the Imperium. Maybe not the majority but you cannot handwave away CT, T5, and Cepheus without admitting you are taking away a regular group of contributors to this forum and many of its ilk.

Traveller and the Imperium are linked today, and the way most people play, but the outliers are still Traveller, and we are still here and part of the larger community.

 

[Bartleby]

To me that is the real curious thing, I think what makes "Traveller" is The system and The setting, If you have both of these is is very easy to slide between games. You can stand up from Joe's game and sit down at Mike's game very easily. If you loose one of them it's still fairly easy to adjust.

I think you have answered your own question. People who have invested in the 5E system (I am not one of them) needed to spend a lot of time to learn it. So now they can slide into a game of Traveller 5E very easily. Because it is the 5E engine.

Frankly, I have no interest in 5E but if I was making it I would suggest they stay away from the Imperium. Too much lore to scare away possible new players. Something new let's them dive in from the beginning. I think it is a great idea.

So why call it Traveller if it doesn't have the system or the setting? I imagine it will have the Traveller toys. Career creation, world building, ship building etc. Now a 5E player can enjoy these things without having to learn a new system or a 45 year old setting.

I have no interest, but I think it is a great idea. I wish the backers well. I hope the buyers get a great product.

 

[Rupert]

To me that is the real curious thing, I think what makes "Traveller" is The system and The setting, If you have both of these is is very easy to slide between games. You can stand up from Joe's game and sit down at Mike's game very easily. If you loose one of them it's still fairly easy to adjust.

Going back to early CT, with no setting, It was still very easy to slide between games, because you knew the system. Going to later versions of Traveller the system may have been different but the setting was still there to tie things together. I could sit down at a GURPS Traveller game and know what to expect, I would only need to learn the system. Ditto for the other versions or homebrew ports, such as Savage Worlds. Additionally you can sit down at a table and play Rider, Pioneer, Orbital 2100, Seasons of the Dead, or any other 2d6 game very easily because you know the system.

The New Era, in the 'default' RCES setting. Different system, and the 3I was just rust and dust, and some flavour text the GM speaks about why a given does/does not have cool high-tech goodies to loot. Traveller? Or Not Traveller?

How about that setting, but run using GURPS 4th ed (i.e. not the GURPS edition used for GT)?

Now, how about that game, but over the course of the campaign it's become about exploring multiple parallel dimension?

What about the above, but using TNE's rules instead of GURPS?

Where's the boundary?

 

[Rupert]

So why call it Traveller if it doesn't have the system or the setting? I imagine it will have the Traveller toys. Career creation, world building, ship building etc. Now a 5E player can enjoy these things without having to learn a new system or a 45 year old setting.

Here's something I think is important - 'Traveller' as a game is about the constraints around star travel - it's 'slow', it requires frequent refuelling stops, and it has limited range, so where you can go is limited and long trips require planning. Aside from GURPS Traveller and T5 I think about all of them use a system/world generation rules set that's readily transferable from one to another - it's largely the same system. Most use spaceship construction rules that produce broadly recognisable ships that can have their in-play stats simply copied into a different rules' format without them being too far wrong (so while gearheads mightn't approve, most players would never know).

The rules might change, the setting might have different worlds and different governments, but the fundamentals of how a setting works don't change a whole lot. In these respects, from what little I've seen, this 5e version doesn't look to deviate more than TNE (probably less in terms of the underlying tech) or a campaign set in and using MGT2's Rim Expeditions.

 

[spank]

The New Era, in the 'default' RCES setting. Different system, and the 3I was just rust and dust, and some flavour text the GM speaks about why a given does/does not have cool high-tech goodies to loot. Traveller? Or Not Traveller?

How about that setting, but run using GURPS 4th ed (i.e. not the GURPS edition used for GT)?

Now, how about that game, but over the course of the campaign it's become about exploring multiple parallel dimension?

What about the above, but using TNE's rules instead of GURPS?

Where's the boundary?

I'd say TNE was on one edge, it was a different system, and the setting was greatly modified, but it was still set in the OTU. It was just a few steps further down the Hard Times road. Much like Milieu 0 It's still Traveller, just a different point in the timeline.

Changing the system to GT, 4th or 3rd edition wouldn't make that much difference, because your still playing in a Traveller derived setting.

But adding Parallels world, Jump Gates, or Time Travel would make it less Traveller because you have neither the 2d6 system nor the base tech assumptions. But you may still have the Setting.

Again changing the system back to TNE wouldn't really make that much difference, because I don't think anyone really thinks of TNE's mechanics when they think of Traveller. But changing to CT/MT/MGT/T4/T5 would bring it closer to being Traveller, because they are all some form of 2d6 system.

 

[Spinward Scout]

The more the merrier?

 

[Rupert]

I'd say TNE was on one edge, it was a different system, and the setting was greatly modified, but it was still set in the OTU. It was just a few steps further down the Hard Times road. Much like Milieu 0 It's still Traveller, just a different point in the timeline.

Changing the system to GT, 4th or 3rd edition wouldn't make that much difference, because your still playing in a Traveller derived setting.

But adding Parallels world, Jump Gates, or Time Travel would make it less Traveller because you have neither the 2d6 system nor the base tech assumptions. But you may still have the Setting.

Again changing the system back to TNE wouldn't really make that much difference, because I don't think anyone really thinks of TNE's mechanics when they think of Traveller. But changing to CT/MT/MGT/T4/T5 would bring it closer to being Traveller, because they are all some form of 2d6 system.

T4 and T5 are not really 2d6 systems.

And, for what little it's worth, I think of TNE's mechanics when I think of Traveller.

 

[FreeTrav]

As I said elsewhere, I (Jeff Zeitlin, occasional Traveller player and referee) am not the target market for 5eT. And that's OK; I also wasn't really the target market for T20. As editor/publisher/curator of Freelance Traveller, I will support it to the extent that readers choose to send relevant material, though I am adamant that 5eT will not take over the magazine.

 

[Condottiere]

Hoping that greater exposure will be appetizing enough to readers to partake of the primary edition, without the diminishing returns of cannibalism.

 

[whartung]

Sure, if (as you say) you don't count the original, the latest (T5) and Cepheus then OK sure they are twins.

Classic Traveller is a spectrum of development over several years. Shockingly, at the nascent dawn of RPGs, GDW was not prescient enough to fully develop a setting for their basic mechanics that they published in '77. But, if you notice, they fixed that almost right away. Going headlong into it by B5 and the JTAS, and never looking back.

If you want to say anything with 2D6 8+ "is traveller", be my guest. Cepheus is not Traveller. It's just another SF game with similar mechanics. But we all know, mechanics are not what makes Traveller.

TNE is Traveller, and not Twilight 2K or DC, even those they share mechanics, and it's not the 2D6 8+ mechanic. 2300AD is NOT Traveller. (Even though they tried to brand it that way early on.) It's different in every way save that being tossed out into vacuum is still Bad.

D20 is Traveller. Hero Traveller is Traveller. GURPs Traveller is Traveller. Mongoose is Traveller. None of these share mechanics. But they all share the Imperium.

T5 is only Traveller because Marc wrote it and he has say so, other than that, it's just a large bag of soulless mechanics and systems.

Right now, at first glance, T5e is a $1000(!!) set of Not Traveller. It's just a (apparently) very small SF setting, and a bunch of collateral. As far as I can tell, the only resemblance to Traveller will likely be the ubiquitous 100 dTon Scout and 200 dTon Trader.

Other than that, it just seems like some big, one shot of a collateral dump with the D&D rule set tweaked for guns and lasers. The only thing that makes 5e Traveller is Matt says so, like Marc and T5, and he can put that sticker on anything he wants.