[Vehicles] Star Wars vehicles

[Murdoc]

I was watching a few episodes of Clone Wars recently, and that gave me the itch to whip up some SW vehicles in T5. Didn't all turn out as well as I'd like, but then, this isn't Star Wars either, so most of them are close enough I think. Now I though I'd share them in case others want them. Nothing's in stone so suggestions are welcome.

Landspeeder

code       type                                         TL  q  vol spd   ld  AV: ca, fp, rp, sp, ps, in, se   KCr  
---------- -------------------------------------------- -- -- ---- --- ---- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- ------ 
OGC        Open Grav Car                                 9 10    1   4    1    0   0   0   0   0   0   0  0     50 
(I know it uses jet engines plus lifters, but I think this is as close as we get in T5.)

Airspeeder
ELGU(F)    Enclosed Lt Grav Utility Flyer                9 10  4.5   5  1.5    4   0  24   0  24   0  22  1    370

Snowspeeder
ILGA(F)    Lt Grav Combat Flyer                         12 10  4.5   6  1.5   18   4  26   0  32   0  40 21    380 

Sail Barge (as close as I can get it anyway)
HPFOVhLR   Open Vh Lift Transport                       13  9   21   2    9    0   0   0   0   0   0   0  0    300 

Sandcrawler (ACAICGI)
EEVhTCR    Enclosed Early Vh Tracked Cargo Transport    10  7   24   2   12    9   0   4   0  -6   0  18  0    700 

Bongo (ACAICGI)
FSAVlTSb   Advanced Vl Transport Sub                    10  0   16   1 18.8 32.6   2   6   0  28   0  16 40  120.5 

Republic attack gunship (LAAT)
HPFAVhGC   Armored Vh Grav Carrier                      15 10   12   5    3  140  20  20  20  32   0  40 40   4670 

Speeder Bike
HPOVlGPH   Open Vl Grav Passenger Vehicle                8 10 1.32   6 -0.0 1.65   0   0   0   0   0  12  0 134.65 

1-Trooper walkers
Code         Name                                       AV and Protection              Mass  KCr 
------------ ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---- ---- 
VlPU-13      Vlight Combat Unit-13                      11 [3,3,3,3,4,6,3]              240  480 

AT-ST
MOsBU-13     Medium Oversize Battle Unit-13             40 [20,20,20,20,10,40,20]      4000 3000 

AT-AT
HTBU-16      Heavy Titan Battle Unit-16                 84 [60,60,60,60,15,75,60]      17550 18000

So the really big stuff Traveller has a problem with. Maybe it's because they are less realistic? And the walkers aren't near what I wanted. I mean, how fast do they go? Personally I think it was a mistake to put them into Armor rules instead of Vehicles. :/

 

[Reban]

I was watching a few episodes of Clone Wars recently, and that gave me the itch to whip up some SW vehicles in T5. Didn't all turn out as well as I'd like, but then, this isn't Star Wars either, so most of them are close enough I think. Now I though I'd share them in case others want them. Nothing's in stone so suggestions are welcome.

Landspeeder

code       type                                         TL  q  vol spd   ld  AV: ca, fp, rp, sp, ps, in, se   KCr  
---------- -------------------------------------------- -- -- ---- --- ---- ---- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- ------ 
OGC        Open Grav Car                                 9 10    1   4    1    0   0   0   0   0   0   0  0     50 
(I know it uses jet engines plus lifters, but I think this is as close as we get in T5.)

So the really big stuff Traveller has a problem with. Maybe it's because they are less realistic? And the walkers aren't near what I wanted. I mean, how fast do they go? Personally I think it was a mistake to put them into Armor rules instead of Vehicles. :/

Maybe try the Landspeeder as a VLite Open Utility Lifter Flyer instead?

It works out as TL7 2.6tons but only speed 2. Making it Combat gets you TL9 Speed 3 and AV7. Depends on what you're aiming for.

I agree about walkers. There should be a legged option in VehicleMaker. Walkers designed under ArmorMaker (as Units) can probably only do Speed 2 or sophont running speed.

 

[robject]

Landspeeder?

No way the landspeeder is gravitic; I can't see it hitting orbit. Lifters, yes.

code: EVlLC
type: Enclosed Vl Lift Car
TL: 8
vol: 0.99
spd: 4
ld: 0.33
AV: 4 {ca:0, fp:4, rp:0, sp:4, ps:0, in:12, se:0}
KCr: 33.2

 

[robject]

AT-AT

How big are those things? Pretty massive bounding box. They're the order of magnitude of small starships: could be 400 tons easily, or more.

In fact, what if we abused ACS to design them, and simply apply a custom "mission"?

...400t hull, "landing" legs, plenty of armor...

 

[arentol]

No way the landspeeder is gravitic; I can't see it hitting orbit. Lifters, yes.

Based on page 284 I believe that despite the use of G-Drive ground vehicles with grav drives still had to stay within a few feet of the ground...

"Grav. The vehicle moves using the Gravitic or G-Drive. Grav Ground Vehicles operate close to the surface and are governed by Driver skill." (pg. 284)

That being said, the main two problems I have with your design are "enclosed" and the final speed. 4 is too slow for the land speeder, it should be 5.

I would do it like this:

Type: Open Grav Car
TL: 8
Vol: 1
Spd: 5
Kcr: 60

Or if sticking with lifter...

Type: Open Advanced Lift Car
TL: 11
Vol: 1
Spd: 5
Kcr: 80

 

[arentol]

AT-AT....

Type: Advanced VHeavy Armored Walking* Supply Carrier**
TL: 15
Vol: 26
Spd: 2
Kcr: 9,070
+ Weapon Mount + OffRoad
*Used Tracked Motive information for this.
**I know this isn't the right name, but wanted to make it clear what options I choose and the standard name doesn't do that.


I went with supply carrier, because AT-AT are actually primarily troop and equipment transports, secondarily battle machines. Tracks roughly simulate the cost and added volume of the legs, so that seemed to make sense, otherwise it is entirely within the normal rules. It ends up coming out only a little smaller than the AT-AT's actually were in the movies, and the armor level is pretty impressive.

 

[Reban]

There's the thing tho. the only real difference I can see between between Grav Ground Vehicles and Grav Flyers is

• The use of the Flyer or Driver skill
• The types of retricted terrain

I think if the operator has Driver and Flyer he should be able to take a Grav Ground Vehicle to higher altitudes. A Flyer can operate a Grav Flyer at NOP altitudes which iirc is ~3m and use the craft in a similar manner to a Grav ground vehicle. I've taken to designing my Grav Tanks as Grav Flyers and adding armor.

There's no obvious difference in engine power, aside from speed, but speed and lift or power are not synonymous.

A very close reading of the terrain types for different vehicle types is very illuminating. My more coherent and less sleepy notes are here: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=435685&postcount=9

 

[robject]

AT-AT....

Type: Advanced VHeavy Armored Walking* Supply Carrier**
TL: 15
Vol: 26
Spd: 2
Kcr: 9,070
+ Weapon Mount + OffRoad
*Used Tracked Motive information for this.
**I know this isn't the right name, but wanted to make it clear what options I choose and the standard name doesn't do that.

The volume is 26 tons... it seems low. But, my memory is hazy. Weren't those things quite tall, as in several stories tall? And those little gravitic fliers that the Rebellion used look awfully tiny compared to them... they look just a bit bigger than an AT-AT's "hoof".

If the flier is from 1 to 4 tons, then all 4 of the AT-AT's feet total 4 to 16 tons. Add in the legs... say they're 21 meters tall, and 1.5 x 1.5m cross section, that's another 7 tons apiece for a subtotal of 28 tons, and I haven't even gotten to the torso...

...and I'm not even doing it right, because vehicle volume is (more or less) "bounding volume", not actual water displacement. Although those legs have to come apart for easy storage...

Coming at it from another angle: how big are they compared to the Millennium Falcon?

 

[arentol]

The volume is 26 tons... it seems low. But, my memory is hazy. Weren't those things quite tall, as in several stories tall? And those little gravitic fliers that the Rebellion used look awfully tiny compared to them... they look just a bit bigger than an AT-AT's "hoof".

If the flier is from 1 to 4 tons, then all 4 of the AT-AT's feet total 4 to 16 tons. Add in the legs... say they're 21 meters tall, and 1.5 x 1.5m cross section, that's another 7 tons apiece for a subtotal of 28 tons, and I haven't even gotten to the torso...

AT-AT's are just under 23 meters tall, about 22 meters long, and about 6 meters wide in the feet, 5 in the body. 23 meters doesn't sound like much until you realize that is a 5 story building.

That being said, my build has an issue... Speed. It should technically be speed 5. But to get more speed I would need to add a TL as well, which is already getting a bit high. I suppose protected could be removed and replaced with High Powered....

Really though what you would need to do is make a special "Walker" Motive. I just used Tracked as a Kludge. More realistic would be F for Feet, TL 11 Tons +3 Speed 5 KCr x3, or something similar.

 

[Murdoc]

26 tons is definitely low, but as you can see with my Sandcrawler and Sail Barge, there isn't much room for really big stuff in these rules.

Really though what you would need to do is make a special "Walker" Motive. I just used Tracked as a Kludge. More realistic would be F for Feet, TL 11 Tons +3 Speed 5 KCr x3, or something similar.

Yeah, that is all that would really be needed, instead of the whole "Unit" section in armor. Might make a nice house-rule. That was a good kludge though, in a pinch.

 

[arentol]

Here is the AT-AT with better speed, built using robject's builder now that I know where to find it....

code: HPWpnAUVhTSC
type: Armored UltimateVh Tracked Supply Carrier
TL: 17
q: 7
vol: 26
spd: 4
ld: 8
AV: 130 {ca:20, fp:20, rp:20, sp:52, ps:0, in:40, se:40}
KCr: 6120

I added in High Powered to get the speed closer to where it should be. It is still needs 1 more point, but it is probably close enough within the available rules. Add in the difference with my suggested Feet rule and it reaches the right speed, though the TL goes up to 18. I put Feet above Grav in Tl because actually building an All-Terrain walking object is pretty hard. But I suppose it could also be TL10.

 

[robject]

AT-AT's are just under 23 meters tall, about 22 meters long, and about 6 meters wide in the feet, 5 in the body.

23m x 22m x 5m = 187 tons displacement.

 

[arentol]

23m x 22m x 5m = 187 tons displacement.

Good point. Within the available rules it seems making a ground vehicle larger than 26-30tons is about impossible.

Still, 26 tons = 10x10x3.5, which is not too bad. 2 stories tall and long, and wide as a typical car is long. But yeah, not really close to true AT-AT size at all.

 

[robject]

Good point. Within the available rules it seems making a ground vehicle larger than 26-30tons is about impossible.

Still, 26 tons = 10x10x3.5, which is not too bad. 2 stories tall and long, and wide as a typical car is long. But yeah, not really close to true AT-AT size at all.

Creative license, I suppose -- a custom line item or two in VehicleMaker or ArmorMaker would do it.

 

[arentol]

Creative license, I suppose -- a custom line item or two in VehicleMaker or ArmorMaker would do it.

New line items needed would be something like this..

Motive:
F Feet* TL11 Tons+4 Speed5 Costx2
F2 Feetx2 TL10 Tons+10 Speed5 Costx3

High tonnage is due to excessive volume of legs, not due to actual weight.
Feet come in pairs. So Feet = 2 legs and feet (AT-ST). Feetx2 = 4 legs and feet (AT-AT).
*Walker would be a better term, but W is already taken.

Bulk
La Large Tonsx3 Load+5 Costx2
O Oversized TL+1 Tonsx5 Speed-1 Load+10 Armorx2 Costx5
EO Extremely Oversized TL+2 Tonsx10 Speed-2 Load+20 Armorx2 Rad/Sound/Insulated/Sealed(allx2) Costx12

These vary from Heavy and Very Heavy in that they are increases in size without as much of an increase in strength. So more bulk, more carrying capacity, but thinner walls and less armor. These could probably be abused in some way so some testing and limits (weapon mounts for instance) should be set. However, having this option in general is kind of necessary....
For example, the Boeing 787 bounding box would be about 4300 tons in Traveller, but the largest aircraft you can make is about 130 tons. Even if you remove most of the empty space from consideration 130 tons is still only about 1/10th the size of the 787. With the EO option you could get up to about 400 tons, which is at least closer. Actually though we probably also need this for Flyer Mission:

LC Large Cargo TL+1 Tonsx10 Speed0 Loadx4 Armor 5 (rest as per Cargo) Costx3.

That would let a winged OE flyer get to around 1000 tons, which should be pretty close to the 787 non-bounding box version.

 

[Murdoc]

Without having tried them out for specifics or anything yet, those look pretty good!