Using Ep.s with Book2

[infojunky]

While considering using E.p. In Book2 setting it seems to follow that multiple power plants would be a thing. dedicated warships would have bigger plants installed while your Free Trader wires in a Honda class B in the mid hold to power the dorsal double laser.

Just a idea…

 

[mike wightman]

If you install a power plant with a letter higher than your maneuver drive you may use the double fire option.

Be very careful importing the EP concept from HG - it has its own issues...

 

[Spinward Flow]

Be very careful importing the EP concept from HG - it has its own issues...

You mean, like ... the fact that it works?

 

[mike wightman]

It doesn't 'work' as intended.

Have you ever tracked EP usage as weapon, spinal and bay damage is taken? Have you ever removed weapon capability if you take a power plant hit and EPs should be reduced?

There are no rules in HG for the use of EPs in combat that are not broken by retcons.

And the final nail in the coffin - LBB2 designed ships are way over gunned than their equivalent HG designs can be. A scout/courier has 2EPs and yet can mount a triple laser turret. How about a free trader with 2EPs but two triple laser turrets?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Have you ever tracked EP usage as weapon, spinal and bay damage is taken?

If weapons are disabled, but no damage to the power plant (and fuel is not zero) then available EP per combat round will rise due to a reduction in demand for EP.

Have you ever removed weapon capability if you take a power plant hit and EPs should be reduced?

Yes.
Had a starship with a Fusion Gun on it that we were VERY proud of having ... and in combat there was a Fuel hit that drained the fuel tanks to zero and the power plant shutdown (no fuel) and suddenly the Fusion Gun had no EP to fire.

The quote from the PC Gunner was "I'm getting no joy from the fusion gun!"
After that, we put 1 ton of jump capacitors into the cargo bay so as to have up to 36 EP available to power the fusion gun even if we lost all fuel and the power plant shut down.

The fusion gun turret took no damage.
The power plant took no damage.
The fuel tanks took damage and the ship lost all fuel ... and the power plant shut down so no more EPs.

Note that this kind of power loss after fuel loss interaction has important implications for model/3 computer (which require 1 EP) ... meaning you don't lose model/1-2 computer functionality (requires 0 EP) if fuel gets reduced to zero.

So ... yes ... I've seen EPs get accounted for by Referees who are paying attention to How Starships Work™.

 

[mike wightman]

But not by the rules as written - which is why I said care must be taken.

You would need a system to track EP allocation, and that includes EP to the maneuver drive, which means a rethink about how you calculate EPs for LBB2 ships. It would end up a lot like the FASA Star Trek rules, and give the engineer something to do during ship combat...

 

[Grav_Moped]

After that, we put 1 ton of jump capacitors into the cargo bay so as to have up to 36 EP available to power the fusion gun even if we lost all fuel and the power plant shut down.

Paging @AnotherDilbert . . .

(Using capacitors/batteries for auxilliary power isn't allowed in LBB5* -- but it is a thing in MgT. House rule it into Classic if you want to, but it's not R.A.W.)

Also, if you lose all fuel, where's the hydrogen the fusion guns use for ammunition coming from?

----------------------------
*allowing it either breaks play balance or causes ship designs to be significantly different.

 

[infojunky]

If you install a power plant with a letter higher than your maneuver drive you may use the double fire option.

Be very careful importing the EP concept from HG - it has its own issues...

Yes it adds power management to the mix. Which I like. Plus you can have cascading failures.

 

[kilemall]

Short thoughts...

EP is in my hybrid system, as is a power allocation subgame, which is tied into tactics, maneuver and weapon firing order.

Multiple power plants should have extra space allocated for power distribution if they are going to share/shunt between for allocation rather then dedicated power runs.

Capacitors are neato but should leak/drain as their name indicates.

They should also explode as they get hit, 36EP arguably is like 36 lasers going off in LBB2 terms or maybe a plasma battery hit that goes to the internal damage table in LBB5 terms. Per capacitor.

Don't go around with those charged up unless you know you are going into battle.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Short thoughts...

EP is in my hybrid system, as is a power allocation subgame, which is tied into tactics, maneuver and weapon firing order.

Multiple power plants should have extra space allocated for power distribution if they are going to share/shunt between for allocation rather then dedicated power runs.

Capacitors are neato but should leak/drain as their name indicates.

They should also explode as they get hit, 36EP arguably is like 36 lasers going off in LBB2 terms or maybe a plasma battery hit that goes to the internal damage table in LBB5 terms. Per capacitor.

Don't go around with those charged up unless you know you are going into battle.

And if you've added them, you need to put them into the damage table somewhere. Are they Cargo? Jump Drive? Power plant?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Jump Capacitors are technically associated with the Jump Drive (it's in the name, you see).

 

[infojunky]

Short thoughts...

EP is in my hybrid system, as is a power allocation subgame, which is tied into tactics, maneuver and weapon firing order.

thinking along those lines.

Multiple power plants should have extra space allocated for power distribution if they are going to share/shunt between for allocation rather then dedicated power runs.

Looking at the base overhead in plant volume covers that. Though a mount with dedicated power amuses me as well as a turret hit give lot of bits to break, also makes them look like a ships turret in the real world.

Capacitors are neato but should leak/drain as their name indicates.

They should also explode as they get hit, 36EP arguably is like 36 lasers going off in LBB2 terms or maybe a plasma battery hit that goes to the internal damage table in LBB5 terms. Per capacitor.

Don't go around with those charged up unless you know you are going into battle.

I have been thinking halve the stored power, with hit being less explosive.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Jump Capacitors are technically associated with the Jump Drive (it's in the name, you see).

Well, yeah. But if they're a Tesla Powerwall installed in the cargo bay? LBB5 doesn't have a "cargo" entry on the damage table.
LBB2 does, so there's a chance any cargo hit will take out the 10Td that includes the caps.
Or would a Jump Drive hit do it? If so, does that happen before or after the drive gets reduced to 0?

 

[infojunky]

Well, yeah. But if they're a Tesla Powerwall installed in the cargo bay? LBB5 doesn't have a "cargo" entry on the damage table.
LBB2 does, so there's a chance any cargo hit will take out the 10Td that includes the caps.
Or would a Jump Drive hit do it? If so, does that happen before or after the drive gets reduced to 0?

How about a power plant hit?

 

[Grav_Moped]

How about a power plant hit?

Could work. First hit, last hit, or randomly determined?

 

[infojunky]

Could work. First hit, last hit, or randomly determined?

Random like turret hits.

 

[whartung]

Well what's the current B5 policy on multiple systems as is? Like redundant PP and MD and such? Is there anything written down? Or does it hit the "active" drive?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Well what's the current B5 policy on multiple systems as is? Like redundant PP and MD and such? Is there anything written down? Or does it hit the "active" drive?

Funny you would ask that ...

Screen-n: The USP factor for one screen (nuclear damper, meson screen, or black globe) selected by the firing player is reduced by the indicated amount. Damage must be divided as evenly as possible: no screen may receive two hits until all other screens have at least one, or three hits until all others have at least two.
Weapon-n: Each hit destroys one battery of weapons, either offensive (laser, energy weapon, meson gun, particle accelerator, or missile) or defensive (sandcasters, or repulsors). If the ship has only one battery of a type (including spinal mounts), a hit reduces its USP factor by the indicated amount. As with screens, the firing player chooses which weapons are affected, but damage must be divided as evenly as possible.

Under LBB5.80, usually the only time that there are multiple options for what to hit are in Screens and Weapons, and the Rules As Written specify that it is the attacker's choice in both instances of damage to determine what system(s) take the incoming damage.

A logical extension of the principles involved would be that if there are multiple drives (main and backup) then the attacker gets to decide which drive takes the damage from which hit, but cannot hit the same drive again until all the other drives have taken a hit as well. Note that the damage amount per hit can vary ... so you can have a Maneuver-2 hit on the main maneuver drive, then a Maneuver-1 hit on the backup drive before the main maneuver drive is eligible to take another hit. The point I'm making is that the hits have to be distributed evenly (with sequence ordering decided by the attacker) while the damage delivered by those individual hits can come in different quantities.

 

[whartung]

The point I'm making is that the hits have to be distributed evenly (with sequence ordering decided by the attacker) while the damage delivered by those individual hits can come in different quantities.

Yea, that works. I recall that mechanic, I even wrote it in to my HG software, it keeps track to ensure the damage is spread out, though I probably only applied it to weapons and such, I don't think my system can cope with multiple drives.

 

[mike wightman]

That's not how it works in LBB2 though...
you would need subtables for hits.