Spinward Flow
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That wasn't the question.
That was the question.
How LBB2 handles things was not a part of the question.
Using Ep.s with Book2
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How LBB2 handles things was not a part of the question.
You can just adopt the Turret mechanic -- randomly pick a system to hit. So if you have two power plants, roll dice to pick one, and hit it.
B2 doesn't have the "spread the fire around" rule. The way I read it, it seems that with the Turret rule, you can even hit a "dead" turret. So, if you have a 1000 ton ship with 10 turrets, knocking them all out can be tricky if you're allowed to hit dead ones.
Using that concept, you can cheese the mechanic. Just add the smallest, cheapest extra system you have knowing that it'll absorb 50% (statistically) of the hits.
Spinward Flow
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Probably part of the reason why LBB2 doesn't allow backup drives.
It's not that it doesn't allow them, it just doesn't have rules for them.
Spinward Flow
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Different sameness.
The multis rule is in bk 5... only one drive of each type =(P,M,J) active at a time.
Note that Bk5 is allowed as an extension to Bk2, and all Bk2 drives remain valid.
So Bk2+EP is just Bk5 sans custom drives.
kilemall
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Depends, where are they, in the engineering section, in a spare weapon/vehicle bay or stuck in the cargo bay?
This is a merger of the LBB2 and LBB5 systems, so think a 1-12 table with surface/internal/overall/radiation die roll + DMs. Criticals are a modified version of the LBB5 crit table placed at die result 12.
kilemall
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Not really no, just more referee discretion.
I'm big on backup drives, computers, etc. because critical hits from either book can put a key system out of action. Having backup can be a salvation. I would have allowed them back in the LBB2 only days, if for no other reason then the Leviathan example for deep frontier redundancy.
AnotherDilbert
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It's not banned in LBB5'80, but it is explicitly banned in the errata.
I agree it changes the design space significantly if allowed; e.g. battery powered riders that are much smaller and cheaper, and immune to Fuel Tanks Shattered hits, hence much harder to kill.
AnotherDilbert
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captainjack
SOC-13
Hello all. Found this topic and realized I had done a workaround on it over at MG forums about ten years back; hope it helps here.
:
Workaround for energy consumption in starships:
Postby captainjack23 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:18 pm
{Edit: Necrobumped from an old discussion}
So, I tried out a quick fix for making starship combat a bit more dependent on power last night, and it worked fairly well..caveat, itworked well with a group of very cooperative players ....YPMV.
My main rationale wasn't just to complicate design for the sake of complication (if it was, I would obviously call it "realism"
), but rather to increase the options and issues that the players faced -with minimal rules changes, also (most of them own the MGT rules, and we are trying to run this as straight as possibnle -kind of a postplaytest, really).Also, this is likely to be dropped when HG comes out ,assuming they have an anticipated player scale combat system.
So, here is the basic version of the rules changes/additions.
Some assumptions:
First, the basic combat rules are the same, especially with regard to damage : drives fail as a whole, not gradually by letter.
A power plant also provides some power for life support, ships systems, and basic wepons use in addition to and independent of its ability to power the M drive. Thus, a ship w/. PPA and MD A can produce 2 thrust, and run Life support, ships systems and basic avionics, and basic (mainly defensive or low power) weaponry.
A powerplant now produces energy points which are used to power systems. A basic PP installation - the smallest size for a given output for that hull- produces its table rated output + 2 (Life support & Avionics).
Example: A type A power plant in a 200 ton hull produces 3 EP (1 for rating, 2 for ships sytems); in a 100 ton hull, it would produce 4.
Each ship has a demand rating for its weapons which depends on what weapons are being charged for use that turn.
NOTE: Bays are exempt from this; I assume that part of the space requirement includes a dedicated power plant.
- Demand ratings:
Beam Laser=1
Pulse Laser =1/2
Particle Beam = 5
Missile =0 (but require avionics to be functioning)
Sandcaster = 0
Shields =To Be Determined.
Update:
Particle Beam turret = 5
Particle beam Barbette =3
( a barbette (5 tons internal ) is larger, and has some internal power support but still requires input from the ship's plant)
A ships demand rating on any given turn is:
((Sum of weapon ratings)/Hull rating)-1).
If the result is 0 or less, it can use the weapons in question for free. If not , EP must be allocated for each point or fraction of a point of demand.
Note: the hull rating divisor allows the demand to scale with the drives -bigger ships have bigger drives and more turrets, but an output of 1 to 6, regardless.
Thus, a basic scout could run at Thrust 2 and fire weapons which had a demand of 0 ( a double pulse turret, 1/2 x2 -1 =0), or thrust 1 and fire weapons which had a demand of 1 (a double beam turret, 1+1 -1 =1).
Alternately, life support (gravitics, temp, atm recycling,light) could be shut down to provide the point, and thrust could remain at 2.
Note: A particle beam would then require at least a size 4 ships powerplant to fire a single such weapon for free; and it would take up all the free weapon capacity to do so. This is because I really don;t want small ships lugging one around. The Gazelleprobably doesn't work with a demand of 5 - I may be being too severe - perhaps a demand of 3 would work better ?
Advanced options:
"Bigger engines equal better fun" option:
Drives can be installed that are larger than optimum: in other words, one can use a drive that is bigger than the basic drive for that hull/output combo, but less than the drive needed for the next output level.
Each extra step gives 1/2 extra EP for ships sytems: note that the max thrust is still limited by the M drive rating.
NOTE: some thought has been given to making it 1/point per step...not sure if this is too much, BUT it eliminates the pesky 1/2 EPs.
The 1/2 point/letter extra is a convenient average and causes some odd anomalies - a more purist approach would make it provide 1 point times (the number of extra steps taken/number of extra steps before the next output number).
"More Power Scotty ! " option.
The drive can be temporarily overdriven by a sucessful Engineering: powerplant check. The drives rating for purposes of the above rule may be temporarily increased by up to 1 letter for every two points of effect.
Failure has no effect. Critical failure (-6 or worse effect) counts as a hit and causes damage accordingly.
At the end of the turn, a second Engineering: power roll is required to avoid burnout: there is a penalty of -1 for each letter increase taken, and -1 for each consecutive turn of overdrive. Failure causes the power plant to take a hit; critical failure (effect -6 or worse) means it is destroyed.
"Faster, Dammit, Faster !" option.
The same rules above are applied to the M drive ; note that any extra power must be allocated before the roll, and if failed is lost.
"All weapons to Maximum !" option.
A beam or energy weapon can double fire by doubling its demand. A energy points are alocated and a then a gunnery roll is required at -2 ; failure means only normal firing is allowed, critical failure means the weapon is damaged ; success means a asecond shot may be taken.
"Silent running" option
Ships signature may be reduced by powering down the powerplant -1 to detection for each output number reduction. Avionics may be shut off for an additional -1, as may life support. a fusion plant that is shut down takes 1d6 hours to restart, modified by an engineering: power roll. (details uncertain at this time)
"Light the buggers up, Sparks !" option
An extra power point may be allocated to active sensors, doubling their effective range and giving a +2 to the sensor roll.
In play
I hand the Captain a handful of tokens (two per EP, for the half points) and he allocates them to the players involved in the various systems -and I enforce a 1 min discussion time once he has them in hand. Once they are handed out, any rolls are made for system overloads and etc, and the turn begins.
I must note that this is inspired greatly by the original playtest 3.2 rules, as well as "Battlestations " , an enormously fun board and character game.
Last edited by captainjack23 on Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I remember that, still a lot to chew on.
Manuver requires both power and fuel, as does jump.
Computer rating becomes Electronics rating. Simple Computer rules are being used. Jump requires a Electronics rating equal to the jump number.
The question is to go the High Guard route where the basic matched drive and power don’t leave anything over for weapons.
Manuver requires both power and fuel, as does jump.
Computer rating becomes Electronics rating. Simple Computer rules are being used. Jump requires a Electronics rating equal to the jump number.
The question is to go the High Guard route where the basic matched drive and power don’t leave anything over for weapons.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Uh ... Pulse Laser should be 1 ... just like Beam Laser.
kilemall
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In CT/HG terms, they get the extra radiation rolls, aren't affected by sand, and have some nice to hit rolls.
Probably though the right comparison is one PA barbette vs. a triple laser turret with 3 EP usage. Arguably no, especially since lasers can do anti-missile point defense. PA Barbette could be a faster takedown of an enemy though factoring in irradiating enemy crew, weapons and low end computers.
Nukes can do the fastkill job in the low end no nuclear damper ACS world.
Just recently figured a good valuation for turret missile nuclear warheads vis-a-vis Striker- using the 15cm diameter of turret missiles and 25cm of bay missiles, apply the bore size of nuclear warheads and you get 5kt/Cr50000 warheads for the turret missiles, 100kt/MCr1 for the bay missiles.`
Course you just might have the Imperial Navy or functional equivalent gunning for you.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
NO authority (that isn't bought off) is going to want to put up with Loose Nukes™ within their jurisdiction.
The opportunity for terrorist mass destruction/hostage taking is simply too extreme to ignore the risks.
Nuclear Dampeners help minimize the long term damage of radiation extremes, but the costs of rebuilding vs destroying are just way too asymmetrical to intelligently contemplate.
Of course, law code: 0 worlds have no restrictions on the buying and selling of nuclear arms, and if they have sufficient tech level such arms could even be manufactured locally for sale. Just don't be too surprised if the Subsector and/or Imperial Navy come knocking on your doorstep (with meson guns) to serve warrants for your arrest if those nukes wind up being used "in the wrong place at the wrong time by the wrong people" (or words to that effect) and the nuclear arms get traced back to their source.
Being able to maintain a monopoly on nuclear weapons is kind of a military imperative, for lots of different reasons.
See: hot potato.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
All true, the missile cost valuation is more useful for properly charging HG navies for their nuclear broadsides. Past the point of ND introduction, costing the missiles shows just how useless and expensive they are for most anything but coup de grace against ND-failed capital warships or retribution strikes should an opponent step over the line against planets/stations/orbitals.NO authority (that isn't bought off) is going to want to put up with Loose Nukes™ within their jurisdiction.
The opportunity for terrorist mass destruction/hostage taking is simply too extreme to ignore the risks.
Nuclear Dampeners help minimize the long term damage of radiation extremes, but the costs of rebuilding vs destroying are just way too asymmetrical to intelligently contemplate.
Of course, law code: 0 worlds have no restrictions on the buying and selling of nuclear arms, and if they have sufficient tech level such arms could even be manufactured locally for sale. Just don't be too surprised if the Subsector and/or Imperial Navy come knocking on your doorstep (with meson guns) to serve warrants for your arrest if those nukes wind up being used "in the wrong place at the wrong time by the wrong people" (or words to that effect) and the nuclear arms get traced back to their source.
Being able to maintain a monopoly on nuclear weapons is kind of a military imperative, for lots of different reasons.
See: hot potato.
captainjack
SOC-13
okay, sure. No idea where I got the 1/2 value from 10 years ago. On a side tangent, pulse lasers do more damage but are less likely to hit, right ?
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