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Using D20 modern for T20: The classes

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tjoneslo

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A discussion of using D20 Modern and D20 Future for Traveller has appeared here several times. The usual response has been lukewarm at best. But given the lukewarm response to D20 Future in general, I thought it might be interesting to write up more of the Traveller background using more of the D20 modern rules.

The T20 rules rely on a very general set of classes with broad ability to customise. D20, on the other hand, likes to use very focued classes with specific abilities. Traveller covers many kinds of adventures so focused classes will require many classes. In addition to the base classes, my list has 30 Advanced classes and 16 prestige classes.

D20 modern has six base classes, each based around a primary attribute:

Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charsimatic,

T20 adds two attributes (Education and Social Standing) so we add two more base classes:

Scholarly, Socialite.

Advanced classes:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Service Classes Non-Service Classes
Army Infantry Academic
Army Artillery Athlete
Army Cavalry Barbarian
Army NCO Confidence man
Army Officer Entertainer
Army Combat Engineer Field Medic
Field Scientist
Doctor Intelligence
IISS Scouts Law Enforcement
Martial Artist Merchant
Merchant Broker
Navy Able Spacehand Negotiator
Navy Pilot Professional
Navy Engineer Research Scientist
Navy Electronic Rogue
Navy Gunner Traveller </pre>[/QUOTE]Prestige Classes
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Service Classes Non-Service Classes
Ace Pilot Advanced Research Scientist
Ambassador Belter
Contact Specialist Bodyguard
Imperial Line Marines Courier
IISS S-3 Covert Ops. Investigator
Slyean Rangers Lawyer
Sniper TAS Reporter
Survey Specialist Skip Tracer </pre>[/QUOTE]I'm looking for feedback on this idea, in particular should I finish this or is there not enough interest for me to do so.
 
I'd be quite interested in seeing how this pans out - I like d20Modern/Future.

Another thought I've had is using d20 Cthulhu as the core rules and adapting the T20 careers.
 
Seeing as the touted advantage of d20 Modern is the lack of need for extra classes, this seems counter-productive to me.

OTOH, it seems like a great way to generate demand for a lot of extra class books ... <cynical> which is probably it's intended purpose </cynical>.

Do players really want X number of specialty classes, or would they rather just make up a reasonably realistic modern character and then play them?

Perhaps another pertinent question is what are the d20 Modern rules about multi-classing?
 
I like D20M as well. Aside from the classes, I use it as my core rules. I did include some perfunctory rules for D20M/D20F in 2320AD, but I would be interested in seeing a more-indepth look at it.

Colin
 
Actually I would love to see a conversion of D20M money difficulty to Credits. They have neat toys I want to port. One of the things I really hated about the D20 Modern rules is abstracting money. D20 Future has some more neat toys. A Conversion of credits and starship sizes would also be useful. (Might make me go out and buy more books to support my Traveller campaign.) Of course that would be Wizards of the Coast books to support a T20 campaign not the other way around.
 
The D20 Modern book has such a table, Table 7-1: Purchase DCs (page 204). This is not in the SRD apparently.
 
Originally posted by Falkayn:
Do players really want X number of specialty classes, or would they rather just make up a reasonably realistic modern character and then play them?
Click to expand...
My impression of the many discussion and books for D20 modern is designers seem to prefer more speicalized classes. I'll take the advice that I'm wrong about this, that players prefer fewer, more general classes.
 
Originally posted by tjoneslo:
The D20 Modern book has such a table, Table 7-1: Purchase DCs (page 204). This is not in the SRD apparently.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I missed that in my rulebook. And the standard canon conversion is about $3=Cr1?
 
T20 credits amount to about $3 US per 1cd. imp. taking into account inflation since 1977 when 1. cd imp = $1US...I read that somewhere, in the T20 intro I think.

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Actually I would love to see a conversion of D20M money difficulty to Credits. They have neat toys I want to port. One of the things I really hated about the D20 Modern rules is abstracting money. D20 Future has some more neat toys. A Conversion of credits and starship sizes would also be useful. (Might make me go out and buy more books to support my Traveller campaign.) Of course that would be Wizards of the Coast books to support a T20 campaign not the other way around.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Grymlocke:
T20 credits amount to about $3 US per 1cd. imp. taking into account inflation since 1977 when 1. cd imp = $1US...I read that somewhere, in the T20 intro I think.
Click to expand...
Don't know about the intro, but its in the chapter on equipment. I remember reading it this weekend when I was looking up some prices.
 
A suggestion for an advanced class/prestige class to add to the list:

I believe d20 Modern has an advanced class called the Intrusion Specialist. Would make a great hi-tech cat burglar-type class for Traveller. At one time I worked up a T20 version prestige class. Don't remember where I put the darn thing now. Hmmm, might have to redo it.
 
I like the idea of using d20 Modern for a Traveller basis is a better idea than using the D&D 3E Player's handbook.
D20 modern has six base classes, each based around a primary attribute:
Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charsimatic,
T20 adds two attributes (Education and Social Standing) so we add two more base classes:
Scholarly, Socialite.
Click to expand...
Neat idea. Here's what I'm starting to work up for my campaign.
Since education isn't an innate characteristic of an actual person and social standing can be rather fluid, I don't make a base class surrounding either one.
Plus, it saves on trying to come up with talent trees for both of them.
Instead, I plan on incorporating them into how they influence what you can have as a starting occupation.

The whole advanced class and prestige class is from D&D 3E not d20 Modern.
If you look at the first two starting occupations in the Modern book, they are Academic and Adventurer. These correspond to Academic and Traveller base classes.

I like the way those T20 base classes are similar to starting occupations, but better fleshed out. So, I'm just thinking about either substituting the base classes with the Modern starting occ., but more likely I'll just change the T20 base class name to Starting Occupations and use it as a guide to flesh out the Modern ones that Traveller doesn't have in it.

The Prestige Classes you mention are excellent, I'll just remname them to Advanced Classes so they fit with the d20 Modern setup.

So, to sum it up...

d20 Modern Base Classes == no change.
d20 Starting Occupations == a mix of them and T20 Base and Advanced Classes with education and social standing influences.
d20 Advanced Classes == T20 Prestige Classes.

That's the way I figuring on running it...so far.
I'll let you if I hi any snags.
 
I redid the classes after some of the discussions here and on ENWorld. These are a little more generic, but the addition of some talent trees and new class feature trees should make them flexable enough for everyone.

Base Classes: All 10 levels from D20M
Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charismatic, Scholarly, Socalite.

All Advanced classes are 10 levels.
Service Advanced Classes
Army Soldier, Marine, Navy, Scout, Law Enformcement, Diplomant, Medic, Merchant.

Non-Service Advanced Classes:
Academic, Athlete, Barbarian, Bodyguard, Confidence Man, Professional, Technician, Rogue, Traveller.

All Prestige Classes are 5 levels:
Service Prestige Classes:
Slyean Rangers, Army Inspector, IISS S-3 covert operations, Intelligence officer, Ambassador,

Non-Service Prestige Classes:
Bounty Hunter, Martial Artist, TAS Reporter, Investigator, Field Scientist.
 
An interesting breakout, but the drawback *I* see (and which I freely admit may just be me), is that the "Attribute Base" classes, while being flexible and generic, also fail to convey much of what *is* Traveller to me. It's a conceptual model difference that I can't quite put words to (but I'm sure I'll bore y'all with later)...
 
Well, to me T20 has a very major conceptual flaw in the way its classes are handled (assuming I understand how it works correctly) - that flaw is that characters start off in a class, even before they're in university or started their training. So you could have an 18 year old human who hasn't even started university, but who is technically in the Scout class. This just doesn't make any sense.

I've did a little bit of thinking about this when I got D20M a while back, and figured that this flaw could be solved by saying that all characters start off as an "Attribute Class" until they actually start a career, in which case they either get an occupation and continue in their attribute classes or the career becomes an Advanced Class that they can tap into. (I'd also ditch Barbarian as a career, and just limit the skills/feats that they can have from the attribute list instead). That's about as far as my thoughts got, but that's what I'd do to solve the problem...
 
You have trouble with being a Scout before age 18? Sounds like a classic case of HJD ("Heinlein Juveniles Deficiency").

Similarly, all I need do is look at the past 40 years (at least) in certain hot spots here on Earth to see children well below 18 in the Army and Mercenary tracks, and I could certainly see parallels among belter populations leading to the equivalents of Navy or Marine or Merchant in minors.

But if the career-based class structure doesn't float your boat, D20M's attribute classes are probably the next best thing unless you stop at the "strong archetypes" of Star Wars or Farscape.
 
It's not that I have trouble with being a Scout before age 18. (I don't know why you got that impression, I didn't even mention it).

The problem is that before you officially join a career, you have to take a class in a career to simulate what skills etc you get before then. This make no sense. It's been explained as "well, you just have a scout-like mentality and aren't actually a Scout" but that really doesn't cut it for me.

D20M offers a way out - you take the Attribute Classes (which lend themselves very well to generic training/life experience) until you get formally trained in an Advanced Class.
 
I like what tjoneslo has com up with, because that is one way to get the job done.
The one I was thinking along the lines of is similar to Malenfant's idea.

I think that core classes in T20 look an awful lot like a combination of an Attribute Class and a Starting Occupation in d20 Modern.

I'm definitely going to look into tjoneslo's way of doing the classes, but I'm leaning towards what I was considering before just because it is clearer in my head.

I like tjoneslo's setup though, good job.
 
D&D, nor its d20 derivatives, isn't set up for 0 level characters.

In all the d20 games I've seen you start at 1st level in a class of your choosing.

You could do the same in T20. Start at 18 (or 14 if a Barbarian or Belter ;) ) with a 1st level charcter. That 1st level coudn't be in a service class, because you haven't joined one, but you do get your homeworld skills and feats.

Has anyone ever tried to make a classless version of T20? Other than Hunter's call for interested parties a long time ago, of which we have heard nothing more ;)
 
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