• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Under barrel grenade launchers

mike wightman

SOC-14 10K
A quick comparison of the GLs available today:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Name mass type range
HK69 2.78kg f/s 150m/350m
HK79 1.5kg u/b 150m/350m
AG36 1.5kg u/b 150m/400m
GP25 1.5kg u/b 150m
GP30 1.3kg u/b 150m
M79 2.72kg w/s 150m/350m
M203 1.36kg u/b 150m/350m
FNGL 1.2kg u/b</pre>[/QUOTE]type - folding stock, under barrel, wooden stock.
range - direct fire/area fire
Thanks, Sigg. Of course the 350m range weapons use the US 40x46mm cartridge, the 150m range weapons the Russian VOG-25 grenade.

Max Popenkar is Russian, so he includes LAWs and RPGs as grenade launchers. He is considered to be very reliable, though.

There is a story out there that the USMC are interested in the Milkor "MGL-140" (AKA the South African MGL Mk 1 40mm. The Marines are indeed interested in a multishot grenade launcher, but there is no outside confirmation of a decision or purchase.
OK, the rest of the post.

I think a RAM grenade under barrel option should be available to Traveller carbines and rifles, rather than using RAM shoot through grenades.

The RAM grenade launcher in LBB4 has a mass of 4kg, but includes a stock and an electronic sight.

Subtract 1.5kg for the sight, and 1kg for the stock, and what you are left with is a 1.5kg RAM grenade launcher to be mounted with another weapon.

It may end up something like this.
The underbarrel grenade laucher has been around for at least 40 years. It continues because the dedicated lauchers has proved to be much more accurate than rifle grenades. I have personally fired an M-203 through a small window 150 meters distant.

I.5 Kilos is about right. The good old M203 weighs in at 30 pounds.

I think the idea behind the RAM grenader was that the induvidual doesn't need a dedicated launch platform. Any infantryman can fire grenades without adding another 1.5 kilos to his weapon. 1.5 kilos doesn't seem like much, until you have to pack it around.

A 3 kilo rifle is very nice. A four kilo rifle is typical of most military rifles and just starts to feel heavy after packing around for a while. A five kilo rifle sucks.

This sort of thing (AICW, OICW) looks cool on paper, or at the est range. But when you have to pack it around day in and day out, it gets uncool very quickly.
So what we need is a really light assault rifle to base our ACR on, adding the 1.5kg for the RAM grenade launcher, and the 1.5kg for the electronic sight means something in the 2.5kg range...

the M4, HK G36C, or the Israeli Tavor perhaps?
2.5 Kg is pretty light. I think Bushmaster makes a carbon fiber receiver for the M4 that gets the weight down that low. Otherwise, the G36k is 3.4 Kg, the lighter Tavor is still 2.9.

5.5 Kg is more than I would like the the XM-25 to be, but not much more than a Thompson with a 50 rd drum. My Dad humped a 9 Kg BAR in WWII because he could do things with it that were beyond a 4.3 Kg M-1 Garand.
Well the AICW is based on the Steyr AUG/F88, but I fail to see the advantage of this system versus the Steyr AUG + M203:

The unloaded weight of the Steyr AUG compares unfavorably too, 3.8kg.

There is an interesting PDF (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2001smallarms/lee.pdf) that shows an idea for making the AICW top half an add-on to the M16.
FFS seems to be really good at producing designs that are eityher too light or too heavy. The M203 under barrel grenade launcher, which is constructed primarily of aluminum and polymer, weighs in at 3 pounds.

Another classic example is the snub pistol, who weight is given as 250g and 100mmlong for a 10mm design. The lightest, smallest weapon I could find in a similar caliber is the S&W 342, an aluminum framed gun with a titanium cylinder is caliber .357. The length is 244mm and the weight is 340gm.
If you want the ultimate underbarrel grenade laucher, may I submit the DBCATA?

Short for Disposable Barrel and Catridge Area Target Ammunition, the DBCATA is a self contained disposable 40mm grenade launcher that fits on a small adapter plate on the rifle and is also flashless, smokeless and virually silent.

The adapter plate itself is quite small and would proably add very little to the weight of the weapon, perhaps a few hundred grams.


[looks at pic]


[starts reading]

Heh, it's not for killing people, it's for "destroying" them! Not sure what "terrain accidents" are...

[reads more]

FAE rounds!?! Yikes!