Traveller Maps - X-boat traffic lane concerns

[savage]

Per a discussion from another thread. If you have any concerns for x-boat communications traffic lanes, please voice it here. Don had worked on improving the lanes, but it may have been incomplete. Marc voiced to Don, per Don, that some irregularities may have stories behind them.

Originally Posted by savage
I was concerned about the x-boat lines on the map.

robject:
Marc is concerned about them. Start a new discussion thread for everyone to brainstorm?

 

[tjoneslo]

Per a discussion from another thread. If you have any concerns for x-boat communications traffic lanes, please voice it here. Don had worked on improving the lanes, but it may have been incomplete. Marc voiced to Don, per Don, that some irregularities may have stories behind them.

So as part of the discussion with Don (directly), and Marc and Josua (indirectly) I took the code that generated the trade maps (located on the wiki) and re-purposed it to generate a sane set of x-boat communication routes.

The rules were to connect the Subsector, sector capitals, scout way stations, and importance 5 worlds, with a preference to use routes through scout and naval bases, and other higher importance worlds.

I produced a set of maps (well several) to see what the automatic generation could produce. And they looked pretty good. I posted a few here for review. I know I got Hans and a few other people to critique the Spinward Marches map.

In the larger Imperium I ended up moving about 6 or 8 of the way stations to make the overall Imperial x-boat routes look like it covered everything. But these auto-generated routes are not much like the existing canon routes.

Like I said, I had a (slightly) more detailed discussion with Don about this, and it was on his list to discuss with Marc.

I'm more than happy to show anyone the generated routes for discussion. I think the automated process does a relatively good job of placing routes. And they could be a good starting point for adding, removing, or other changes for interesting backgrounds.

 

[savage]

I recall showing original concern about the routes and Don worked on them.
I think the question now is to look for necessary tweaks.

Anything you point out or share could be useful. I think this this is an eyes on approach/ validation.

I'm also concerned with changes to visible canon (TL, etc) instead of tweaking world data to support documented storyline.

 

[tjoneslo]

Set of maps.

This was the last set of maps I generated for Don.

There were three problems with these maps.

1) They in no way match any existing canon. This was a background debate but important to some people.

2) There are areas where the routes overlap or make weird cross connections. This is a limitation of the automated generation. This can be fixed by manually adjusting some of the routes. But it requires a manual review.

3) In order to fill in or make the routes work better I needed to move a few of the scout way stations. It was also possible to make the routes adjust by moving naval bases or scout bases, or other economic changes. But this had other impacts on the maps. Again this required a manual review by Don and approval by Marc.

If you would like to look through the maps and point out where things could be fixed or concerns you had about the original xboat routes that I could address I will be happy to see what I can do.

 

[Spartan159]

That certainly looks different. I'm curious what a Jump 6 network would look like, the Imperiallines/Navy secret communication route so to speak.

 

[robject]

Someone please refresh my memory: does Atlas of the Imperium include Xboat routes?

 

[inexorabletash]

Nope. In the CT era, just Sups 3 & 10. Then any sector DGP touched in TD, MTJ, and the aliens books.

 

[robject]

Therefore, there is not that much canon Xboat information. And of that, I suspect that the Spinward Marches is the only Xboat system that isn't on the table... and even then tweaks to it can be made.

FOR EXAMPLE, Don proposed -- and I think got -- the Jump-5 leg in the Marches expunged. I was for keeping it, because it is possible to design a Jump-5 ship, special-made for Lunion.

 

[savage]

I'll have to look at the atlas.

Let's be clear. There are a few adventures and the SM map that mention X-boats. Otherwise, I believe we are free (as Don was) to adjust the traffic for logistics. This is not like other elements of Canon. No one should say "hey! wait"

Merchant routes are a 2nd question. Traveller canon has never formalized a merchant route for megacorps. If we want to address it some time it would use similar logic to x-boat routes. Megacorp 100k+ merchant ships would not be going to back water worlds where free traders thrive.

A 5jump x-boat?

 

[inexorabletash]

While I like preserving old data, some of the published routes are cray-cray. Look at Old Expanses, which carries over from High Passage mag. Bleah.

I'd be in favor of a do-over and Thomas' look pretty darn good. I just manually did routes for Zaru and Ilel and while not identical they have a similar feel.

To avoid cross-overs the algorithm can just weight them and toss the least important. (Logically there is no problem with cross-overs, but they look bad.) The focus on Importance highlights one problem with the algorithm - it discounts "natural" traffic covering the "last mile". Routes shorter than J-3 should be avoided in most cases, since local J-1/J-2 traffic will cover it. (Exceptions in some cases, eg Dlan/Water)

But...

We need to get the T5SS rebooted before tackling any world data changes.

 

[mike wightman]

X-boat routes follow major trade routes - i.e. the routes the megacorporations trade along.

Selected locations along major trade routes are established as express stations;

Major Trade Routes: Aramis has three distinct xboat
routes, and the large transport companies follow those
routes with their liners and transport ships.

Tukera: Tukera Lines is a megacorporation providing
jump-3 and jump-4 transport for passengers and freight
along the already established xboat routes that bind the Imperium
together.

 

[savage]

X-boat routes follow major trade routes - i.e. the routes the megacorporations trade along.

Thx for the clip. Where is it from?

 

[mike wightman]

That's from library data A-M - you may want to reload the page as there is stuff from the Traveller Adventure edited in.

 

[savage]

That's from library data A-M - you may want to reload the page as there is stuff from the Traveller Adventure edited in.

very helpful Mike. One concern is crossed off.

 

[Limburger59]

Don't touch our X-Boat Route!

All I know is my great-great-great-uncle died defending the Imperium, and the X-boat route named in his honor is considered a sacred trust by the citizens of Radiator Springs. Try to move our X-boat route and my distant cousin the Duke will hear about it!

 

[robject]

All I know is my great-great-great-uncle died defending the Imperium, and the X-boat route named in his honor is considered a sacred trust by the citizens of Radiator Springs. Try to move our X-boat route and my distant cousin the Duke will hear about it!

Ah yes, the Limburger Route. I know it well. Salty, chalky, and notoriously aromatic. Liners serve rye bread with onion slices and lager beer on that route.

 

[mike wightman]

Well if we are going to bring stuff like this up - as Duke of Tenalphi you will leave my jump 5 x-boat link alone... there will be consequences otherwise...

 

[tjoneslo]

X-boat routes follow major trade routes - i.e. the routes the megacorporations trade along.

The problem is, from the perspective of having generated the x-boat and trade routes, is the serve completely different purposes.

Trade is best served by J-2 ships. It's is the most economic and efficient for maximum return on investment. Even for long distance trade.

Communications, on the other hand, is best served by J-4 or J-5 ships. Because the "cargo" (information) takes so little space, the ship can be designed for the completely different purpose. Plus, as is canon, the couriers (the IISS) are paid for out of government funds and don't have to show a profit.

So the routes may have the same end points (large, important, high population worlds) the routes they would take are completely different.

 

[mike wightman]

Back to work - the x-boat network was originally dynamis, in that it could change. There is mention of proposed new x-boat routes in the original SM supplement and the district 268 link still to be decided on...

oh - and another quote - this time from the Spinward Marches supplement:

Xboat links are represented by grey lines showing the established communications
routes. Generally, these routes are also the major freight and passenger
carrying lines.

 

[mike wightman]

The problem is, from the perspective of having generated the x-boat and trade routes, is the serve completely different purposes.

Trade is best served by J-2 ships. It's is the most economic and efficient for maximum return on investment. Even for long distance trade.

Communications, on the other hand, is best served by J-4 or J-5 ships. Because the "cargo" (information) takes so little space, the ship can be designed for the completely different purpose. Plus, as is canon, the couriers (the IISS) are paid for out of government funds and don't have to show a profit.

So the routes may have the same end points (large, important, high population worlds) the routes they would take are completely different.

Canon disagrees. See the numerous quotes over my last few posts or I can put them all together...