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Traveller Maps - X-boat traffic lane concerns

Canon disagrees. See the numerous quotes over my last few posts or I can put them all together...

Oh, I've read all of them. I've had the arguments over them, written the book, don't wait for the film.

My point is that canon is wrong. It sounds good, and makes sense from some perspectives but doesn't hold up against an analysis.

It would have been true in the days of the second half of the First Imperium, where the J-2 Drive was used for both communication (as the fastest thing available) and for trade (as the most efficient trade ship). And this was probably true through until the early part of the Third Imperium with the spreading of the J-3 and J-4 drives as part of the communication system.
 
Or could it be your fundamental assumptions about trade in the Imperium are wrong...

canon is 'wrong' about so many things. The size of Imperial fleets in the SM means no piracy, yet there is piracy etc etc etc.

The Traveller Adventure is a pretty authorative piece of canon - it has both trade war (piracy), and the trade model I quoted. Until MWM de-canonises it we are stuck with it.
 
Set of maps.

This was the last set of maps I generated for Don.

There were three problems with these maps.

1) They in no way match any existing canon. This was a background debate but important to some people.

2) There are areas where the routes overlap or make weird cross connections. This is a limitation of the automated generation. This can be fixed by manually adjusting some of the routes. But it requires a manual review.

3) In order to fill in or make the routes work better I needed to move a few of the scout way stations. It was also possible to make the routes adjust by moving naval bases or scout bases, or other economic changes. But this had other impacts on the maps. Again this required a manual review by Don and approval by Marc.

If you would like to look through the maps and point out where things could be fixed or concerns you had about the original xboat routes that I could address I will be happy to see what I can do.


Yeah multiple traffic lines crossing each other couple be on different Z axis (if we want to acknowledge them). So I'd rather not get pick on that. But i like your lines on first view. Vland sector never made much sense. X-boat traffic must be efficient or commercial corps will replace it. I never bought the 4j approach for that reason. The original map was far longer for information to get to Vland, Corridor, Deneb and SM.

I am concerned about x-boat traffic through Depots if Commercial Megacorp traffic goes through X-boat lanes. This is a problem.
 
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Or could it be your fundamental assumptions about trade in the Imperium are wrong...

canon is 'wrong' about so many things. The size of Imperial fleets in the SM means no piracy, yet there is piracy etc etc etc.

No really it doesn't. Space is big. Systems are big. I believe 1000 ship sector fleets are a minimum not max. Also, a lot of these fleets are sitting waiting for bad things to happen. MT makes a big deal about how active the Corridor fleet is and that it's larger to hold out Vargr Corsairs. But that is not necessarily true for the other sectors. It certainly doesn't stop the Vargr that investigated Plunge.

So, no it's not big enough to squash SM sector piracy. Especially, if those pirates are supported by any foreign privateering letters from Vargr pocket empires, Zho, SW, Aslans, mixed human states, etc.
 
My point is that canon is wrong. It sounds good, and makes sense from some perspectives but doesn't hold up against an analysis.

"There are many trade routes" would probably appeal to Marc.

As for piracy... that's a very old discussion that Mike and I and many of us have already been a part of. There are scars. I am angling to have it settled. Resurrect an existing thread if you want to mull over it some more.
 
2) There are areas where the routes overlap or make weird cross connections. This is a limitation of the automated generation. This can be fixed by manually adjusting some of the routes. But it requires a manual review.

Yeah, the Sword Worlds look like a game of cat's cradle gone wrong. :p I'm guessing that's a result of all the worlds having bases? Nonetheless, the other maps look fairly reasonable.
 
Once again going back to The Traveller Adventure - there are trade maps showing the routes the minor traders follow.

Go back to 77 edition CT generate every trade route using that table and then manually designate one or more of them as x-boat routes.
 
Remember, too, that some of those crazy routes may be there for purely political reasons. There may also be some routes that bypass system A (Importance +3) in favor of system B (Importance +0) because 300 years ago system B was Importance +2 and system A was Importance -2.

In cases where the trade value of a system changes, free traders are better able to react to the changes than either megacorps or interstellar governments. Free traders will go where the trade is. Megacorps will study the issue and the ramifications (monetary and political) of making the change before doing so (and may well create a separate branch to appease a nobleman whose system will no longer be on the main route). Intstellar governments will make many of those decisions based on political reasons. It is quite possible that the ISS would be forced to keep the existing route through system B and add the new route through system A.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka
 
Remember, too, that some of those crazy routes may be there for purely political reasons. There may also be some routes that bypass system A (Importance +3) in favor of system B (Importance +0) because 300 years ago system B was Importance +2 and system A was Importance -2.

One of the things I've never seen discussed in canon, and only discussed here in broad details, is how the x-boat routes are changed.

There are three interrelated factors here:

Trade will go where the markets are. So as worlds become more important by increasing trade (and population) the trade routes will shift. Conversely as worlds loose population or fall behind, the trade begins to dry up.

The second is the Imperial Nobility. In the T5 rules and Imperialines rules, each of the Nobles above the rank of Knight will have holdings somewhere outside of their demesne. In theory (nothing in canon contradicts this) a noble could move their demesne to any of their holdings. There are examples in canon of nobles moving their capitals around.

The third is the x-boat routes. Technically these are controlled by the IISS. But as several people have pointed out, the routes must be at least influenced by politics. If you move one endpoint it would have effects across an area the size of a subsector. So moving a route would, with the cascade effects, be done after consideration and consultation with all the affected parties. That is, very rarely.

This is generally in the order of effect. The political and trade situation on various worlds cause the Imperial nobility to follow along, which forces the IISS to update the trade routes.

There are cases where changes in the Imperial nobility situation is cause of these changes. A canon example is in the T20 Gateway domain with the replacement of the Archduke. The capital is moved, everyone goes with them. Or in GT:Rim of Fire where the Archduke moves the capital for reasons of local politics.

The problem with mapping these changes over time is the precipitating events are not predictable. Important people dying without heirs, political revolutions, wars, natural disasters, and so on. I know both the World Builders Handbook and the T4: Pocket Empires have tables of events of these sort to make your colony and empire more interesting.

Having some agreed upon rate of change for these things would make mapping these changes easier. On a sector scale there would be minor updates to most of the worlds (population changes mostly), with a more major event on 1 out of a hundred worlds (TL or pop digit adjusts, government changes). This would change the trade routes. These changes may precipitate a minor realignment of nobility (a count or baron moves their demesne).

Once a decade the accumulated changes cause a more significant realignment (Count or duke). Which may or may not push for a subsector level change in the x-boat routes.

The problem with the T5 Second Survey data set is the Nobility is all accurate according to the rules. But in a real, dynamic, universe there should be a visible number of violations of the rules. As people have pointed out with the existing x-boat routes. But both requires a know history to explain.
 
It's likely to be higher tech stuff, since three dee printing should make most localities self sufficient at their or a lower tech level.

The other option is paying the premium for allowing some other system use up their resources, or a polluting industrial process.
 
One of the things I've never seen discussed in canon, and only discussed here in broad details, is how the x-boat routes are changed.

There is, however, a philosophy that informs things like this: economics drives everything. Therefore politics and war are economics by other means.

Since Traveller tends to derive story and substance from random values, then the Xboat routes are an interesting hint of the economic and political processes in an empire.
 
There is, however, a philosophy that informs things like this: economics drives everything. Therefore politics and war are economics by other means.

Since Traveller tends to derive story and substance from random values, then the Xboat routes are an interesting hint of the economic and political processes in an empire.


Okay, let me rephrase that, more narrowly. It's a Traveller philosophy about how the game background "works". Economic exchange is the default sociological explanation for background things -- trade, fleets, piracy, megacorporations, government intervention, wars, assassinations, research, exploration, you-name-it. Maybe even the use of missiles and lasers in space combat...

"Therefore" the Xboat routes are an interesting hint of the economic and political processes in an empire.
 
Okay, let me rephrase that, more narrowly. It's a Traveller philosophy about how the game background "works". Economic exchange is the default sociological explanation for background things -- trade, fleets, piracy, megacorporations, government intervention, wars, assassinations, research, exploration, you-name-it. Maybe even the use of missiles and lasers in space combat...

"Therefore" the Xboat routes are an interesting hint of the economic and political processes in an empire.

And

Since Traveller tends to derive story and substance from random values, then the Xboat routes are an interesting hint of the economic and political processes in an empire.

The problem here is that the random values give the appearance of economic and political processes. But there isn't enough background material to make adjustments. We can make guesses based upon real life. but there is no way to (for example) move an xboat route or change the nobility on a world on a broad scale. You can change one world, or a few. But making changes across a sector or large area requires a way of making consistent changes.

And while I don't think we need explicit rules for every part of this, the background of the Traveller universe isn't complete enough to make the extrapolation.
 
I think the point is to have a thread where we discuss x-boat/commercial traffic.

When it started with we saw inconsistencies in the routes. It took too long to get from capital to Vland, or clusters that we're not on the route but had navy bases, for example.

I still think depots are an end point on a route not a travel path on the route.
 
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